Looking to upgrade my turntable

[highfigh]

You really have made a ten course meal of this! Hopefully you will be happy with the Fluance. However, good turntables have to be built with precision engineering and that is never cheap. Just talk to a skilled machinist.

It's a lot less expensive to buy precision parts than to make them. The setup time alone adds a significant cost to any operation and sometimes, special tooling is needed. I seriously doubt anyone making turntables now makes all of the parts needed. Any casting, whether plastic or metal, needs a large sales projection numbers in order to be viable.

It would seem practical for tonearm pivot points to contain industrial gemstones- even relatively inexpensive watches used those.

 

[Mike Up]

It's a lot less expensive to buy precision parts than to make them. The setup time alone adds a significant cost to any operation and sometimes, special tooling is needed. I seriously doubt anyone making turntables now makes all of the parts needed. Any casting, whether plastic or metal, needs a large sales projection numbers in order to be viable.

It would seem practical for tonearm pivot points to contain industrial gemstones- even relatively inexpensive watches used those.

Yes, I was just shocked by the level of cheapness the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT and Denon DP-300F are made. And it clearly shows by the motor noise defect on the Audio Technica and the speed problem defect on the DP-300F.

Looks like Teac, Music Hall, Dual, Audio Technica, Sony, Denon, and others are made by Hanpin for their cheaper offering and use Ya Horng for their more expensive offerings. Fluance, NAD, Yamaha and JBL turntables are made by Ya Horng. Leetac makes Victrola turntables.

Then you have Pro-Ject and U-turn that make their own turntables but their lower models are NOT upgradeable to different cartridges due to their fixed anti-skate. Only their more expensive offerings have an adjustable anti-skate. Technics makes their own turntables as well.

Looks like Fluance has the the least expensive and more feature rich turntables made by Ya Horng.

Only makes sense in this digital age where vinyl died a long time ago and was only recently brought back to life for the new Vinyl FAD. It's a good thing as it keep hardware going for us to listen to our vintage collections, but now it's either cheaply made or super expensive turntables with few offerings sitting in the middle.

Looks Like Music Hall just discontinued an inexpensive model the US-1 which has adjustable tracking force and anti-skate for cartridge upgrades and only is $250 made, by Hanpin. Funny it just started showing up for sale this week on some websites, looks very similar to my old Sony PS-LX350H except it's much lighter. Perhaps Sony used a steel plate attached to the bottom plastic like the Denon DP-300F does.

 

[TLS Guy]

Yes, I was just shocked by the level of cheapness the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT and Denon DP-300F are made. And it clearly shows by the motor noise defect on the Audio Technica and the speed problem defect on the DP-300F.

Looks like Teac, Music Hall, Dual, Audio Technica, Sony, Denon, and others are made by Hanpin for their cheaper offering and use Ya Horng for their more expensive offerings. Fluance, NAD, Yamaha and JBL turntables are made by Ya Horng. Leetac makes Victrola turntables.

Then you have Pro-Ject and U-turn that make their own turntables but their lower models are NOT upgradeable to different cartridges due to their fixed anti-skate. Only their more expensive offerings have an adjustable anti-skate. Technics makes their own turntables as well.

Looks like Fluance has the the least expensive and more feature rich turntables made by Ya Horng.

Only makes sense in this digital age where vinyl died a long time ago and was only recently brought back to life for the new Vinyl FAD. It's a good thing as it keep hardware going for us to listen to our vintage collections, but now it's either cheaply made or super expensive turntables with few offerings sitting in the middle.

Looks Like Music Hall just discontinued an inexpensive model the US-1 which has adjustable tracking force and anti-skate for cartridge upgrades and only is $250 made, by Hanpin. Funny it just started showing up for sale this week on some websites, looks very similar to my old Sony PS-LX350H except it's much lighter. Perhaps Sony used a steel plate attached to the bottom plastic like the Denon DP-300F does.

Honestly, your best bet for a good turntable at a good price is to buy a good vintage one. However the finest of the vintage turntables fetch a small fortune.

New turntables are not really a very good deal, they are pretty much junk or way overpriced.

 

[Mike Up]

Honestly, your best bet for a good turntable at a good price is to buy a good vintage one. However the finest of the vintage turntables fetch a small fortune.

New turntables are not really a very good deal, they are pretty much junk or way overpriced.

Yes, I agree. I remember when I was a kid we had a console stereo with built in turntable and AM/FM radio, and speakers. The turntable had a floating suspension and was pretty cool. Unfortunately it has 1 driver, full range speakers that didn't sound very good.

Yes, after finding these cheaply made turntables, I started researching and that is when I found that most under $1000 turntables are made by Ya Horng, and the cheaper under $550 are made mostly by Hanpin but a few made by Ya Horng.

The other less than $1000 makers are U-Turn, Pro-Ject, and Technics.

From the looks of it, the Ya Horng turntables look to be quality while the Hanpin are questionable. Just my take on it. I do keep reading of problems with the U-Turn tables while little issues with Pro-Ject. But their more affordable turntables aren't cartridge upgradeable with a fixed anti-skate. The Technics seem to be the golden standard.

If it weren't for the Fluance turntables, I think I would had just gave up and kept using the AT-LP60-USB turntable or put the albums into storage. The nicer Ya Horng turntables by various brands look nice, but they are expensive, at least to me. I do think I would try putting a new Stylus and belt onto the AT-LP60-USB just to see if it helps.

If the Fluance turntable works out for me, I may give the LP60-USB to my step son if he even would have any interest in it, as he's a digital guy.

The Sony PS-LX350H I had, except for design flawed drifting speed, was built better than the AT-LP3XBT or the Denon DP-300F yet back in the day seemed to be around $150 to $200. Looks to have the same Audio Technica made Cartridge with a 2.5mv output with 2.0 grams of tracking force. Even with the same flip down stylus protector! Most likely a modified AT91R.

 

[Mikado463]

Honestly, your best bet for a good turntable at a good price is to buy a good vintage one. However the finest of the vintage turntables fetch a small fortune.

New turntables are not really a very good deal, they are pretty much junk or way overpriced.

So Mark, where does this one fall in, 'vintage junk' ?

2025 Golden Ear: Garrard 301 Transcription Turntable by Audio Grail

£3250 (approx. $4300 excluding any tariffs) In 1954 the Garrard Engineering and Manufacturing Company of England introduced the 301 transcription

www.theabsolutesound.com

 

[TLS Guy]

So Mark, where does this one fall in, 'vintage junk' ?

2025 Golden Ear: Garrard 301 Transcription Turntable by Audio Grail

£3250 (approx. $4300 excluding any tariffs) In 1954 the Garrard Engineering and Manufacturing Company of England introduced the 301 transcription

www.theabsolutesound.com

SME are making the Garrard 301 again. That one looks like an SME new unit with an SME series II arm which they are also making again.

So that would be superb turntable. I still use my two original 301s. Despite their age they are superb and made with great craftsmanship.

That is a 301 with Decca pro arm, and Decca ffss H4E. There is also a Decca MK2 78 head. There is also a very rare Auriol lift which I restored. The preamp is an original Quad 22 there were optimized to mate with the Decca variable reluctance series of cartridges as they were by far the commonest set up at the higher end of the market in the UK back then.

I hate to think what that rig is worth, but it would be in the thousands. That is a very rare complete collection of vintage gear.

 

[Mike Up]

Got the Fluance RT82 today and got it all set up. This is a beast. It is a solid MDF wood Plinth wrapped in gloss walnut Vinyl. Looks really really nice and weighs in at 15 lbs. It has 3 adjustable noise isolation feet with a bubble level. Even came with white gloves.

It has the Ortofon OM 10 cartridge with removable headshell and adjustable Tracking Force and Anti-Skate.

It's not automatic but does have an auto stop at the end of the record. It does not raise the arm, just stops with the arm on the record.

Sounds amazing besting the Denon by a good margin in detail and resolution and has more top end but not bright. The bass is noticeably more controlled as well. From what I remember on the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT's AT-VM95c cartridge is that it sounded a lot alike the Denon's AT91R/DL-85 Cartridge but with more top end as the bass sounded the same.

Now the AT-VM95c was a conical stylus where the Ortofon OM 10 is an Elliptical Stylus. The OM 10 sound better than both noticeably.

I used the same 3 records I used on the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT and the Denon DP-300F. That being Billy Squiers Enough is Enough, Heart's Passion Works and my old and worn ZZ Top Tejas.

Also, the motor is dead quiet, even quieter than the Denon DP-300F!

This Ortofon OM 10 cartridge produces more Voltage than the Denon's cartridge and being so, was 3db louder which is pretty significant with how low volume these turntables are.

I only had 2 concerns with this turntable, the biggest was I had some skipping on Enough is Enough and Tejas.

I rebalanced the tonearm and did the tracking force 3 times and also rotated the anti-skate several times from min to max to get any kinks out of it.

After doing all that, I no longer have any skipping. Now Tejas does have a mild warp in it which it skipped badly at first and wouldn't even play. Now it plays like it's a new record and sounds like it.

The other concern was that my tracking Force counter weight was really far up the tone arm when calibrated and could only get a max of 2.5 grams tracking force. I only needed 1.5 grams but that was a concern. Not anymore as I found 2 other people on the internet with the same issue and this Ortofon OM 10 is only 5 grams heavy, which is the lightest cartridge that this tonearm assembly is compatible with, up to 7.5 grams of the heavier 2M Red and Blue cartridges. So I guess it's normal.

Being I really like this Cartridge, I doubt I'd change it but if I did, I would just have to stay within that 5g to 7.5g cartridge weight and 20 degree Vertical Tracking Angle.

Amazing how quality built this turntable is compared to the Junk AT-LP3BT and DP-300F I tried. This turntable sounds really good. Another thing, the pops and crackles aren't really any worse with this OM 10's Elliptical Stylus than on the conical stylus cartridges of the other turntables. That's a big plus.

Now this table has features and build quality compared to other makers $650 - $750 and up turntables. Shocking at the low $333 price I paid. The Denon DP-300F was $350 and the Audio Technica AT-LP3XBT was $400! Those were just plastic junk.

 

[dolynick]

I'm glad to hear you're liking the Fluance. I'm not surprised that you find the plinth re-assuring. It was one of the reasons I opted for it over some of the others as well when I was shopping for my father.

I had a little trouble getting his set up and the tonearm adjusted on his as well. The instructions are such that it wasn't quite obvious exactly what you were meant to do. It makes sense once you do it right but I got it all wrong the first try. I kind of chalked that up to it being first time I'd had to balance a tonearm in general though. Once I did it correctly though, all seems well.

 

[Mike Up]

I'm glad to hear you're liking the Fluance. I'm not surprised that you find the plinthy re-assuring. It was one of the reasons I opted for it over some of the others as well when I was shopping for my father.

I had a little trouble getting his set up and the tonearm adjusted on his as well. The instructions are such that it wasn't quite obvious exactly what you were meant to do. It makes sense once you do it right but I got it all wrong the first try. I kind of chalked that up to it being first time I'd had to balance a tonearm in general though. Once I did it correctly though, all seems well.

All is good now. I think my tonearm and balancing was ok as I was within .1 grams all 3 times I did it. The Anti-skate is aggressive as I forgot to put it back to zero when I was balancing again and the arm pulled hard back to it resting area. That may have been why it was skipping as it was skipping back, not forward. Twisted the anti-skate knob back and forth a few times and all has been good ever since.

I have done this routine numerous times with the cheap plastic audio technica and Denon turntables. Those were like toys with all the plastic and poor quality parts.

I really like the Ortofon OM 10, it seems more neutral than the AT cartridges plus is more detailed with more refinement in the bass.