Looking for thoughts on ATI amps

T

tealcomp

Audioholic Intern
Well, Come on down to South Louisiana bro! We got mild winters sometimes no winter at all. Fisherman's paradise, Lots of money to be made with the oilfield Only state in the union that has Parishes and not counties. Only state in the union that has Napoleonic law. Prettiest women in the world best food in the world! Friendliest neighbors. One bad thing we got those lil storms that come around every year. But just hookup your 32 ft sideout camper to your 4X4 truck come back when it passes. ;)
Just too many hurricanes Mike and I live in the state a few doors down from you :) We get more than I like too, but man LA has a bullseye painted on them that says "welcome, land here" :)
 
Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
Just too many hurricanes Mike and I live in the state a few doors down from you :) We get more than I like too, but man LA has a bullseye painted on them that says "welcome, land here" :)
Lol, yeah it's sure seems like that, with Louisiana's coastal area Disappearing the flooding is getting really bad when a storm hits now. The Experts are saying about 100 years or less anything below I 10 will be under water.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
But just think how good their subs sound now since they are being powered by an audiophile McIntosh amplifier! Look at those blue meters go.
Blue is nice, but seems small for a 1.25 kW amp, hard to see the actual output watts when if the needle go pass 120 W.:D

1600517283866.png
 
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AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Blue is nice, but seems small for a 1.25 kW amp, hard to see the actual output watts when if the needle go pass 120 W.:D

View attachment 39954
Does it ever go pass 120W, though? :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Does it ever go pass 120W, though? :D
When I auditioned a pair of the original KEF Blades in a dealer's large room, I saw them occasionally passed the 120 W mark, but most of the time no, they peak frequently to about 25 W, but did also swing close to 120 frequent enough if I remember right, but the demo was done with classical (forgot which one, so long ago) orchestral music that has some good dynamics.
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Found the pics I took that day. So they stayed around 1 Watt most of the time, frequently peaked higher than 12 Watt and occasionally hit 120 W.

Vaughan-20121006-00567.jpg
Vaughan-20121006-00565.jpg
Vaughan-20121006-00569.jpg
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Full view of the demo setup, the room is about 20 X 25 ft, going by distant memory.

Vaughan-20121006-00571b.jpg
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Very hard to capture one from the McIntosh website, you have only about 2 seconds, before it changed to something else.

For an expensive amp like this, I think they should do it like the old AVO analgo multi-meters, that is, add a selector switch for the range/scale. For example, if used in my room I can then select 200 W full range/scale, instead of 8 kW. Shouldn't be hard to do. Without it, many users will not see the pointer move more than 1/4 of the full swing and resolution will be very poor. But I guess for many users, they just want to see the meter, not the readings, never mind what it shows.


1600527225688.png
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
When I auditioned a pair of the original KEF Blades in a dealer's large room, I saw them occasionally passed the 120 W mark, but most of the time no, they peak frequently to about 25 W, but did also swing close to 120 frequent enough if I remember right, but the demo was done with classical (forgot which one, so long ago) orchestral music that has some good dynamics.
Well, with 4 x 9” Woofers each speaker, which is about 2 x 12” woofers, I can see why they would need 120W in Full Range mode. Each tower is like a subwoofer.

I think any tower with at least 2 x 10” woofers would need 100W+ power in full range, like a subwoofer would.

But most speakers don’t have dual 10” woofers, so most probably don’t even need more than 100W.
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Isn't the meter impedance dependent?
If it is a conventional wattmeter, and Mc being old fashion afaic, no. It should be based on voltage and current, not impedance. Please don't get me started again on the misuse of technical terms again. I wish manufacturers start respecting the intelligent of their customers and use the right terms such as "average power", current (in amps/amperes/A), voltage, VA, instead of the popular error "rms power" that has no practical meaning.
I just think the public can understand it, if you explain to them, a moving coil loudspeaker will make sound when the diaphragm moves, and it moves when there the signal current flows, and current flows when the signal voltage is applied, and signal voltage, current are phasors (think vector on the mechanical side) so it has magnitude (unit in A) and phase angle relative to the voltage phasor (unit in degrees). So it isn't that complicated for most to follow, without Googling and might end to reading hearsay, spreading misconceptions like Covid.

For those who wants to understand a little more about the relationship between voltage, current (V, A, Degrees), spl (dB0, then they can Google and hopefully found the basic formula such as Power (VA) = Voltage (V) X I (A), Power (Watt) = Voltage (V) X I (A) X Cosine (Phase angle), and to get 2X SPL, the signal voltage to the speaker needs to go up by a factor of square root 2 (√2).

Yes it is easier to just use the single term Watt, or the incorrect term rms Watt that speaker "needs", but if the right term(s) are used, people would naturally have a better understanding of how to read amplifier specs and better chance to pick one that meets the requirements of their speakers.

Sorry, my frustration is not directed at you at all, but you just asked such an interesting question that triggered it...
 
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P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Well, with 4 x 9” Woofers each speaker, which is about 2 x 12” woofers, I can see why they would need 120W in Full Range mode. Each tower is like a subwoofer.

I think any tower with at least 2 x 10” woofers would need 100W+ power in full range, like a subwoofer would.

But most speakers don’t have dual 10” woofers, so most probably don’t even need more than 100W.
Exactly, and by the way, that's why I cannot understand why it seems some seemingly technically oriented people don't seem to believe the use of active subwoofers would lessen (by how much would obvious depend on the source content/signal) the burden on power amps, even when presented when actual measurements.
 
AcuDefTechGuy

AcuDefTechGuy

Audioholic Jedi
Exactly, and by the way, that's why I cannot understand why it seems some seemingly technically oriented people don't seem to believe the use of active subwoofers would lessen (by how much would obvious depend on the source content/signal) the burden on power amps, even when presented when actual measurements.
Somebody actually doesn’t believe that subwoofers will reduce the amp-load of their speakers if they set their speakers to small and let the subwoofers do the bass?

That’s Audio-101. :D

I guess they flunked Audio-101. :D
 
P

PENG

Audioholic Slumlord
Somebody actually doesn’t believe that subwoofers will reduce the amp-load of their speakers if they set their speakers to small and let the subwoofers do the bass?

That’s Audio-101. :D

I guess they flunked Audio-101. :D
One we both know, try TLSG, I don't think he meant no effects, but not much effects I suppose, iirc.., unless somehow I managed to convince him, hopefully partially.;)

By the way, before somehow is going to mention the magic words "well, but the peaks..", those analog meters supposedly measure peaks, not average. Again, knowing Mc, I am sure those are analog meters not like the fake simulated ones on my Oppo HA-1.

When I took those photos, I tried my best to capture the peaks, and verified it after taking the shot, by staring at the needle for a long time to make sure the photo did catch what my eyes saw, during the music peaks.
 
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Gmoney

Gmoney

Audioholic Samurai
@AcuDefTechGuy @PENG, top of the Morning fellow AH members! My head hurts this morning to many cold brews last night had umm 4 or 5. Anyways PENG, good luck trying to get Doc, @TLS Guy to try AC. One thing about Doc, man stands his ground when it comes to crappy speaker builds no matter who built them. So if you do try to Convince Doc and get out alive please let Inquiring minds know. I haven't seen anyone on AH get to Doc not even @gene , Doc has looked death in the eyes and Won! Best of luck PENG with that I will start a Collection plate for your funeral. ;) just jacking around, mostly.:)
 

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