Looking for advice on speakers

[Zoso1971]

So I’ve always been an a/v guy, but I’m just starting to actually learn and build a legit setup. I’m also not sure if this is the right board to post on looking for recommendations so I apologize if I’m in the wrong spot. I currently have a pretty basic 7.1 setup but am looking to replace/upgrade everything and eventually end up at a 7.2.4 setup. I currently have the following as my speakers:

Center-Sony SS-CS8 (145 watts)

Front- Cerwin-Vega AT-10 cabinet speakers

Surround-Klipsch SS1 (100 watts)

Surround Back- I don’t even want to mention(yeah, it’s that bad)

Sub-Klipsch R-125W

AVR-Denon X3600

Room size: approx 17.5’x20’. It’s kind of an odd shaped room, with 8’ ceilings

Budget isn’t too important as I’ll be slowly buying and upgrading over several months. I don’t want to go overboard, but I also want nice quality, maybe like $1,500-$2,000 on the whole setup but I’m flexible. I mostly use the system for movies, music (mostly rock), and sports. I would probably prefer tower speakers for my fronts just based on my room setup but bookshelf’s could work too.

People on Reddit suggested replacing my Sub first, and while I do intend to replace it, I’d prefer to start with my speakers first. I think the Cerwin Vegas are just too loud for my crappy Sony center to compensate, as dialogue is extremely hard to hear, even adjusting levels and settings in the AVR. Reddit suggested getting the C-Note bookshelf’s and matching center as a cheap and effective upgrade on what I have. I’m just looking for a second opinion on where to begin. I’d prefer to upgrade my Center/FL/FR first, followed by my Surround and surround backs, followed by my sub and ending with some Atmos speakers

Anyway what do you think? Where should I begin?

 

[Pogre]

Hmm... I think you're still good to go with the 3600. It's a good receiver and still plenty current.

The folks on Reddit might have a point. The first time I heard bass coming from a legit, clean powerful sub I was floored. I didn't know that bass could have such an impact on overall sound quality. It's always, always underestimated and back burnered by guys who haven't experienced it. Myself included. Now I know better, lol.

I think a pair of Hsu VTF-2 MK5s would get you there. A pair of VTF-3 MK5s (price is for 2 of them) even moreso. I am trying to take your budget under consideration tho, lol. Or start with 1 VTF-3 MK5 and plan on a 2nd down the road after you replace your speakers. A more budget friendly option would be a pair of RSL Speedwoofers. They're smaller, but pack a punch and come in just under Audioholics' large room rating.

I'm not familiar with your speakers but CV are competent manufacturers. They're not at the top of the heap, but you could do worse for sure. That sub tho... I would plan on spending close to 2k for your front stage and I'd get some bookshelf speakers in your shoes. Good sized ones. My logic here is that you can buy a little higher quality in a bookshelf where you would usually be looking at a lower tier tower for the same money. The money saved on materials, drivers and cabinetry in a tower can go into higher quality parts and electronics in a bookshelf. That's where a good pair of subs come in. With good subs to pick up the lower frequencies you won't miss towers, and I'd want subs with towers anyway.

SVS, Canton, Ascend, Kef, RSL, RBH, Monoprice- all great places to start searching for speakers. Accessories4less has been running some great deals for Canton. Oh, also the JBL 5** series pop up on sale all the time too. Great speakers also.

 

[Zoso1971]

Hmm... I think you're still good to go with the 3600. It's a good receiver and still plenty current.

The folks on Reddit might have a point. The first time I heard bass coming from a legit, clean powerful sub I was floored. I didn't know that bass could have such an impact on overall sound quality. It's always, always underestimated and back burnered by guys who haven't experienced it. Myself included. Now I know better, lol.

I think a pair of Hsu VTF-2 MK5s would get you there. A pair of VTF-3 MK5s (price is for 2 of them) even moreso. I am trying to take your budget under consideration tho, lol. Or start with 1 VTF-3 MK5 and plan on a 2nd down the road after you replace your speakers. A more budget friendly option would be a pair of RSL Speedwoofers. They're smaller, but pack a punch and come in just under Audioholics' large room rating.

I'm not familiar with your speakers but CV are competent manufacturers. They're not at the top of the heap, but you could do worse for sure. That sub tho... I would plan on spending close to 2k for your front stage and I'd get some bookshelf speakers in your shoes. Good sized ones. My logic here is that you can buy a little higher quality in a bookshelf where you would usually be looking at a lower tier tower for the same money. The money saved on materials, drivers and cabinetry in a tower can go into higher quality parts and electronics in a bookshelf. That's where a good pair of subs come in. With good subs to pick up the lower frequencies you won't miss towers, and I'd want subs with towers anyway.

SVS, Canton, Ascend, Kef, RSL, RBH, Monoprice- all great places to start searching for speakers. Accessories4less has been running some great deals for Canton. Oh, also the JBL 5** series pop up on sale all the time too. Great speakers also.

I probably should have specified that I already bought the Denon AVR last week to replace my Sony that no longer worked. I love it so far. I definitely get the idea of how much subs impact sound, I read an interesting post on it on Reddit, but I just want to make the dialogue of movies and tv shows more audible for my wife first. Right now I have the center at +5db and my fronts at -5db just to be able to hear it. Would upgrading the subs help with this issue at all? If so then maybe I will go subs first

The front CV’s are some old cabinet style speakers I bought years ago to work with my first AVR and phono player. They’re definitely good speakers and I’ll probably just move them to the garage, but I feel they were never designed as surround sound speakers so they just try to do too much and it overpowers the rest of the system. But I’m definitely going to look into all those suggestions you provided and try to demo some of them. I appreciate the feedback and learned something quick! Thank you!

 

[Pogre]

I probably should have specified that I already bought the Denon AVR last week to replace my Sony that no longer worked. I love it so far. I definitely get the idea of how much subs impact sound, I read an interesting post on it on Reddit, but I just want to make the dialogue of movies and tv shows more audible for my wife first. Right now I have the center at +5db and my fronts at -5db just to be able to hear it. Would upgrading the subs help with this issue at all? If so then maybe I will go subs first

The front CV’s are some old cabinet style speakers I bought years ago to work with my first AVR and phono player. They’re definitely good speakers and I’ll probably just move them to the garage, but I feel they were never designed as surround sound speakers so they just try to do too much and it overpowers the rest of the system. But I’m definitely going to look into all those suggestions you provided and try to demo some of them. I appreciate the feedback and learned something quick! Thank you!

No, a sub won't help with dialogue. I'd get rid of that Sony center and go phantom mode until you replace the front stage. Try that out and see if it improves the dialogue at all. Where do you have your crossover set currently?

Have you done the Audyssey setup routine? Audyssey does a great job of level matching and distancing so no 1 speaker should overpower another, no matter what size they are. I always take all 8 measurements and closely follow the pattern they show during the setup. About 20" between each, at ear height. It's all important, to get accurate room correction. For me, Audyssey XT32-SubEQ is the reason to get a 3600. You did really well there.

 

[Zoso1971]

No, a sub won't help with dialogue. I'd get rid of that Sony center and go phantom mode until you replace the front stage. Try that out and see if it improves the dialogue at all. Where do you have your crossover set currently?

Have you done the Audyssey setup routine? Audyssey does a great job of level matching and distancing so no 1 speaker should overpower another, no matter what size they are. I always take all 8 measurements and closely follow the pattern they show during the setup. About 20" between each, at ear height. It's all important, to get accurate room correction. For me, Audyssey XT32-SubEQ is the reason to get a 3600. You did really well there.

the crossover is set up individually right now and is 60/100/60 for center/surround/surround back. The front is disabled because I listed them as large speakers in the setup part. I did the audyssey setup and I think I might run it again based on a couple changes I have made. I’m thinking of just removing the center right now and going with stereo until I get that Sony replaced.

 

[Pogre]

the crossover is set up individually right now and is 60/100/60 for center/surround/surround back. The front is disabled because I listed them as large speakers in the setup part. I did the audyssey setup and I think I might run it again based on a couple changes I have made. I’m thinking of just removing the center right now and going with stereo until I get that Sony replaced.

A lot of AVRs set main speakers to large, which baffles me because that just prevents your sub from playing with your mains. I always, always, always change my speakers to small, and I have some beefy tower speakers. Try setting all of your speakers (mains included) to small and start with a crossover of 80 for everything. Experiment from there. I would say higher before lower, tho 80 hz seems to work for most. For simplicity you can change the setting to "All" under "Crossovers". I know your CVs are probably not small, but offloading some of the bass frequencies to a sub might help them play a little cleaner and give you more dynamic range.

A couple things, don't mess with the distance settings even if they don't match what you get with a tape measure. Distancing is more about timing than the actual measured distance if that makes sense. Especially for subwoofers. The goal is to have all frequencies arrive at your seat at the same time and distancing is how that's achieved.

Yes, dumping the Sony center for now and just going stereo (phantom mode for your center) might improve things. Maybe quite a bit once you get your speakers and crossovers set right.

So yeah. I think there are a few things you can do for some big improvements without spending a penny. No doubt you wanna get upgraded and we love helping others spend their money, but let's get you dialed in better with what you have now and see if we can improve your dialogue situation like, right now. There's a lot more to setting up than most realize. Even speaker positioning and toe in can make a dramatic difference.

BTW, I own all SVS Ultra speakers and I love them. If you keep an eye on their outlet you can find the bookshelves for $399 apiece with very minor cosmetic damage. They include images of any imperfections and they're sometimes SO minor, but not "perfect". We still haven't found a mark on one of mine, and I really looked them all over. Great speakers that I've had a lot of time with.

There's a lot out there tho and we always recommend getting out to listen to as much as you can, bearing in mind that in home is the best way to judge a speaker. Oftentimes your local Best Buy and other retailers don't have systems setup very well or will dial in one to sound awesome (product push of the month) and put others in a corner without any dsp. That's where SVS' generous return policy comes in for me. You can try 'em in home for 45 days and they'll pay the return shipping if for any reason you don't like them. Totally risk free.

 

[vader540is]

Definitely replace your sub 1st. Those guys on Reddit have a point.

 

[lovinthehd]

One comment first....the speaker wattage ratings are pretty much useless.

The center seems pretty small, I like Pogre's idea of trying the phantom center until you can get a better one (or matching LCR). The surrounds I wouldn't worry about yet. The sub I'd replace as suggested.

 

[Zoso1971]

A lot of AVRs set main speakers to large, which baffles me because that just prevents your sub from playing with your mains. I always, always, always change my speakers to small, and I have some beefy tower speakers. Try setting all of your speakers (mains included) to small and start with a crossover of 80 for everything. Experiment from there. I would say higher before lower, tho 80 hz seems to work for most. For simplicity you can change the setting to "All" under "Crossovers". I know your CVs are probably not small, but offloading some of the bass frequencies to a sub might help them play a little cleaner and give you more dynamic range.

A couple things, don't mess with the distance settings even if they don't match what you get with a tape measure. Distancing is more about timing than the actual measured distance if that makes sense. Especially for subwoofers. The goal is to have all frequencies arrive at your seat at the same time and distancing is how that's achieved.

Yes, dumping the Sony center for now and just going stereo (phantom mode for your center) might improve things. Maybe quite a bit once you get your speakers and crossovers set right.

So yeah. I think there are a few things you can do for some big improvements without spending a penny. No doubt you wanna get upgraded and we love helping others spend their money, but let's get you dialed in better with what you have now and see if we can improve your dialogue situation like, right now. There's a lot more to setting up than most realize. Even speaker positioning and toe in can make a dramatic difference.

BTW, I own all SVS Ultra speakers and I love them. If you keep an eye on their outlet you can find the bookshelves for $399 apiece with very minor cosmetic damage. They include images of any imperfections and they're sometimes SO minor, but not "perfect". We still haven't found a mark on one of mine, and I really looked them all over. Great speakers that I've had a lot of time with.

There's a lot out there tho and we always recommend getting out to listen to as much as you can, bearing in mind that in home is the best way to judge a speaker. Oftentimes your local Best Buy and other retailers don't have systems setup very well or will dial in one to sound awesome (product push of the month) and put others in a corner without any dsp. That's where SVS' generous return policy comes in for me. You can try 'em in home for 45 days and they'll pay the return shipping if for any reason you don't like them. Totally risk free.

i took the advice and disabled the center, changed speaker size, and ran audyssey and it definitely improved it. I’m gonna play around with a couple other settings to buy some time. I think I’ve decided to get a Center first, then depending if the center improved dialogue, get two subs or new front bookshelfs.

I’m most likely gonna get the subs you initially recommended, but am a little torn on the LRC. I’m looking at those SVS Ultra’s, Ascend Sierra 1’s, and KEF Q350. Based on reviews, I kind of like the Q350’s, but don’t like the fact there isn’t a true matching center. Are there any other speakers in that range that I should look into? I want to try and have a matching set for my front/center

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

 

[lovinthehd]

i took the advice and disabled the center, changed speaker size, and ran audyssey and it definitely improved it. I’m gonna play around with a couple other settings to buy some time. I think I’ve decided to get a Center first, then depending if the center improved dialogue, get two subs or new front bookshelfs.

I’m most likely gonna get the subs you initially recommended, but am a little torn on the LRC. I’m looking at those SVS Ultra’s, Ascend Sierra 1’s, and KEF Q350. Based on reviews, I kind of like the Q350’s, but don’t like the fact there isn’t a true matching center. Are there any other speakers in that range that I should look into? I want to try and have a matching set for my front/center

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

By matching center do you mean you need a horizontal center particularly rather than just use a third speaker (same as L/R speakers)?

 

[Zoso1971]

By matching center do you mean you need a horizontal center particularly rather than just use a third speaker (same as L/R speakers)?

yeah that’s what I mean

 

[shadyJ]

yeah that’s what I mean

KEF has a matching center for those speakers...

 

[lovinthehd]

yeah that’s what I mean

Can't fit a bookshelf upright? It works better than many centers....center design is a compromised design to fit under tvs in limited spaces.....

 

[Pogre]

I would worry about a center channel last. Unless you know what you want for all 3 up front and start with the center... but in that scenario I'd just start with a stereo pair and go phantom til I had funds for the center. Or just get all 3 at once. Of all your speakers having LCR match are most important for home theater. You don't just want to any center channel without planning the other 2.

I would also point out that across 2 sites that I'm aware of, the replies to your question to us experts is to upgrade your subwoofers first.

 

[Pogre]

i took the advice and disabled the center, changed speaker size, and ran audyssey and it definitely improved it. I’m gonna play around with a couple other settings to buy some time. I think I’ve decided to get a Center first, then depending if the center improved dialogue, get two subs or new front bookshelfs.

I’m most likely gonna get the subs you initially recommended, but am a little torn on the LRC. I’m looking at those SVS Ultra’s, Ascend Sierra 1’s, and KEF Q350. Based on reviews, I kind of like the Q350’s, but don’t like the fact there isn’t a true matching center. Are there any other speakers in that range that I should look into? I want to try and have a matching set for my front/center

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

The Q350 IS the matching center. You just get a third one and turn it on its side. One of the big advantages of having concentric drivers. It's as perfect a match as you can get.

 

[thrillcat]

i took the advice and disabled the center, changed speaker size, and ran audyssey and it definitely improved it. I’m gonna play around with a couple other settings to buy some time. I think I’ve decided to get a Center first, then depending if the center improved dialogue, get two subs or new front bookshelfs.

I’m most likely gonna get the subs you initially recommended, but am a little torn on the LRC. I’m looking at those SVS Ultra’s, Ascend Sierra 1’s, and KEF Q350. Based on reviews, I kind of like the Q350’s, but don’t like the fact there isn’t a true matching center. Are there any other speakers in that range that I should look into? I want to try and have a matching set for my front/center

I appreciate all the feedback from everyone!

The only TRUE matching center is an identical speaker to your left and right.

If you listen to a lot of music, don’t get a center until you replace your left and rights. Choose those for music. Then preferably get a third for center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[shadyJ]

The Q350 IS the matching center. You just get a third one and turn it on its side. One of the big advantages of having concentric drivers. It's as perfect a match as you can get.

This is correct, but the problem is that the Q350 is not sold individually, only in pairs. If you wanted to do something like this, I bet the Q150, which can be bought individually from accessories4less.com, would be a pretty good center for a pair of Q350s.

 

[Movie2099]

This is correct, but the problem is that the Q350 is not sold individually, only in pairs. If you wanted to do something like this, I bet the Q150, which can be bought individually from accessories4less.com, would be a pretty good center for a pair of Q350s.

Just went to the Kef Direct website and picked the Q550's with the Q250 center channel and with free shipping (I believe) It's $1800 out the door. I think that would a solid setup for an upgrade.

 

[Pogre]

Just went to the Kef Direct website and picked the Q550's with the Q250 center channel and with free shipping (I believe) It's $1800 out the door. I think that would a solid setup for an upgrade.

Some very nice speakers. I'm sure you'll like them.

 

[Movie2099]

Some very nice speakers. I'm sure you'll like them.

Oh not for me, just a suggestion for Zoso1971. If he's still reading his posts.