Looking for a short but brutal reality check

[highfigh]

I'll also weep for your receiver if you buy all verus, because it will be crapping itself whenever you turn up the volume because 90db sensitivity really isnt much

90dB is actually not bad for a sensitivity spec (it's not 'efficiency'). 100W yields 110dB, which is pretty loud, by most peoples' standards. Sheer volume isn't the goal- sound quality is.

BTW- you calculations for SPL don't take room ambience or the number of speakers/channels driven. Add one channel of amplification and another (theroetically) identical speaker and you gain 6dB in a free field space. In a reverberant space, you gain a little more. Also, all channels won't be driving the speakers with full power, and the program material won't be balls out, all the time. Music is no longer recorded for large dynamic range and if you find Cds with more than 20dB peaks, post them here- I haven't seen any and I have used an RTA inline with the signal in the past, before they started recording for iPod instead of high quality audio systems.

There are far fewer high sensitivity speakers than speakers that sound great, which makes 100+db/2.83V/M less important than SQ, IMO.

 

[highfigh]

I made a previous post about my building of a Home Theater room and was going to buy all Boston Acoustics since I can get wholesale, however, someone here mentioned to look at the Aperion Verus speakers. Well, after much reading on the Verus Forte and Grand Towers, I must say I am impressed with the love these speakers seem to receive from all over.

I am leaning to changing my build to:

Staying with same AVR - Denon AVR3212
As for speakers I am considering:

Front Speakers: 2 Verus Forte Tower Speaker
Center Channel: 1 Verus Forte Center Channel Speaker
Surrounds: 2 Verus Surround Dipole/Bipole Speaker
Rear Surrounds: 2 Verus Forte Satellite Speaker
Sub: FV15 Direct Servo subwoofer from Rythmik. Rythmik Audio • 15" servo subwoofer FV15

This would give me a good receiver with the above listed speakers for $4,406.00

Now, with that said, I am coming from my last system being an Onkyo 7.1 HTIB that I bought about 1.5 years ago for like $500.00

What I am trying to determine is will I be blown away enough with the above specced out gear or should I scrimp and scrape and come up with an additional $1,100 for the Verus Grand Tower package, again replacing their sub for the Rythmik.

Will the first system fill my 16' x 24' media room and do justice to the Epson 6010 projector and 120" screen I am going to be using for that ultimate movie theater experience?

I wouldn't recommend buying speakers without listening to them in a room that's at least a little similar to yours. If you can use the same model of receiver, even better. Also, YOU need to think about how loud you want it to be and if you initially think that "FREAKIN' LOUD!!!!" is what you want, you'll find that the initial high SPL listening levels will decrease after you notice that you're tired of everyone speaking at unrealistic levels and being knocked in the head by every little sound. 'constantly loud' doesn't equal 'realistic'.

 

[Savage40]

90dB is actually not bad for a sensitivity spec (it's not 'efficiency'). 100W yields 110dB, which is pretty loud, by most peoples' standards. Sheer volume isn't the goal- sound quality is.

BTW- you calculations for SPL don't take room ambience or the number of speakers/channels driven. Add one channel of amplification and another (theroetically) identical speaker and you gain 6dB in a free field space. In a reverberant space, you gain a little more. Also, all channels won't be driving the speakers with full power, and the program material won't be balls out, all the time. Music is no longer recorded for large dynamic range and if you find Cds with more than 20dB peaks, post them here- I haven't seen any and I have used an RTA inline with the signal in the past, before they started recording for iPod instead of high quality audio systems.

There are far fewer high sensitivity speakers than speakers that sound great, which makes 100+db/2.83V/M less important than SQ, IMO.

Where did you learn to speek Greek?

lol man, I am somewhat overwhelmed at all the tech. talk so far, I have so much to learn in my quest to become an audiophile.

 

[sholling]

Where did you learn to speek Greek?

lol man, I am somewhat overwhelmed at all the tech. talk so far, I have so much to learn in my quest to become an audiophile.

This is a really great place to learn a whole lot from some very knowledgeable people and if you hang out here long enough and you'll start sounding like that to.

 

[zieglj01]

lol man, I am somewhat overwhelmed at all the tech. talk so far, I have so much to learn in my quest to become an audiophile.

Audition and experience listening, will play a big part.

 

[alphaiii]

two 90db verus = 93db at 1w at 1m, lets assume his listening position is 4meters away (120" screen remember)... now for 1 watt you have the verus pair producing a 93db - 6db - 6db -6db = 75db!!!

2w = 78
4w = 81
8w = 84
16w = 87
32w = 90
64w = 93
128w = 96

Ill just suspend disbelief and say the denon can do 128w into two channels at once without clipping or SUPER distorting... Problem is wheres your headroom? Optimus prime just dropped a car on some guy, you needed 10db of headroom and your amp huffed and puffed and only got you 100db... weak.

While you may be right about the inability of Verus or other "lower" sensitivity speakers to be driven to reference volumes in that size room with a mid-level AVR...

You're wrong in the assumption that "Home Theater" automatically means reference level listening... Not everyone wants that kind of SPL...

 

[alphaiii]

TO be honest, i've yet to see any polar response graphs of these (off-axis frequency response to +/-60 degrees horizontally and +/-15 degrees vertically). You'd be better off getting speakers from brands like Harman, Genelec, KEF, and Pioneer, that focus on smooth off-axis response rather than just flat on axis.

Put some serious thought into something like the KEF Q900s or JBL LSR 6332. Speakers that interact with the room in a predictably and controlled manner aren't a bad idea, at least. Especially if you find yourself sitting well into the far field where reflected sound will dominate what you hear!

I don't mean to knock aperion mind you. They might be fine speakers - I just don't pay a world of attention to subjective opinions because people like what they own. Don't overspend on surrounds BTW. I think you could spend a total of $500 on four decent surrounds and be VERY happy!

Soundstage does have some measurements for the Verus Grand bookshelves...

NRC Measurements: Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf Loudspeakers

 

[Savage40]

Soundstage does have some measurements for the Verus Grand bookshelves...

NRC Measurements: Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf Loudspeakers

Being that I have no clue how to make anything out of the measurements for the Verus Grands, can someone decipher them for me and give me an idea of what it means? Do the graphs bold well for the Verus or are they a detriment?

 

[highfigh]

Where did you learn to speek Greek?

lol man, I am somewhat overwhelmed at all the tech. talk so far, I have so much to learn in my quest to become an audiophile.

When I pledged a frat, in college.

Actually, I only had to learn...........crap! they're here! (frat secrets, and all...)

 

[GranteedEV]

Being that I have no clue how to make anything out of the measurements for the Verus Grands, can someone decipher them for me and give me an idea of what it means? Do the graphs bold well for the Verus or are they a detriment?

Let's see...
Here is the Verus Grand Bookshelf listening window response.

Think of that as the direct response, which is the first sound to hit your ears. The bass appears somewhat oddly tuned with a big peak from 100hz to 200hz. They might sound chesty in that region. There is also a shallow dip from about 200hz to 700hz. This means that voices will "jump forward". With good placement you can usually fix the latter, but the former looks undesirable.

Now here is the Verus Grand Bookshelf horizontal off axis response - 30, 45, 60 degrees:

Think of that as the response of the reflections bouncing off the wall, which you will hear in most rooms. You can see that from 1.8khz to 6khz, there's a lot of energy leaving the tweeter. Conversely, from about 1khz to 1.8khz or so, there's a relative lack of energy leaving the midrange. If nothing else, the reflected sound could give your mind mixed signals because it doesn't quite track to the balance of on-axis sound. The confusion can sometimes translate to reduced clarity.

Let's compare it to another speaker measured by the same website, the Revel Studio (a bit of a sibling of the JBL LSRs):

Listening WIndow Response:

Off-Axis Response:

Are there any conclusions that you yourself would be inclined to draw?

 

[Savage40]

Let's see...
Here is the Verus Grand Bookshelf listening window response.

Think of that as the direct response, which is the first sound to hit your ears. The bass appears somewhat oddly tuned with a big peak from 100hz to 200hz. They might sound chesty in that region. There is also a shallow dip from about 200hz to 700hz. This means that voices will "jump forward". With good placement you can usually fix the latter, but the former looks undesirable.

Now here is the Verus Grand Bookshelf horizontal off axis response - 30, 45, 60 degrees:

Think of that as the response of the reflections bouncing off the wall, which you will hear in most rooms. You can see that from 1.8khz to 6khz, there's a lot of energy leaving the tweeter. Conversely, from about 1khz to 1.8khz or so, there's a relative lack of energy leaving the midrange. If nothing else, the reflected sound could give your mind mixed signals because it doesn't quite track to the balance of on-axis sound. The confusion can sometimes translate to reduced clarity.

Let's compare it to another speaker measured by the same website, the Revel Studio (a bit of a sibling of the JBL LSRs):

Listening WIndow Response:

Off-Axis Response:

Are there any conclusions that you yourself would be inclined to draw?

Well, I may be thinking of it in the wrong way, but it appears to me that the Listening Window Response seems to be smoother with the Revel Studios and would probably be a smoother sound, which would lead to less fatigue at higher volumes? Not sure about the 2nd.