Logitech dropping support for the older Harmony remotes

[highfigh]

I was really happy to see that Daniel was getting things back online at Remote Central!

I totally understand that most folks here want an alternative to Harmony. I know that Control4 may not be a perfect fit in that department, but there is a program that allows owners to program the interface and actions. I too wish there was an alternative for DIYers.

I bought a SofaBaton after they had been available for awhile and it was definitely not ready for prime time, in many ways. Database was very small, tech suspport was nowhere near what was needed- I returned it. They came out with a new model which, I have to say- it looked great, but I'm not going to try to learn it only to find that it doesn't do what's needed. A few others look great and I have seen positive comments, but this isn't 20+ years ago and I no longer have the patience. Also, a lot of people are willing to use'juggle apps instead of a 'one thing does it all' product and they don't want to spend the money.

 

[TLS Guy]

I bought a SofaBaton after they had been available for awhile and it was definitely not ready for prime time, in many ways. Database was very small, tech suspport was nowhere near what was needed- I returned it. They came out with a new model which, I have to say- it looked great, but I'm not going to try to learn it only to find that it doesn't do what's needed. A few others look great and I have seen positive comments, but this isn't 20+ years ago and I no longer have the patience. Also, a lot of people are willing to use'juggle apps instead of a 'one thing does it all' product and they don't want to spend the money.

I have never used one of these devices, and frankly don't see the point of them. I have got on very well without them. They seem much more of a detriment than helpful.

 

[Golfx]

I have never used one of these devices, and frankly don't see the point of them. I have got on very well without them. They seem much more of a detriment than helpful.

They are for our family use who do not really care to learn which machine controls what and which order to turn them on.

 

[TLS Guy]

They are for our family use who do not really care to learn which machine controls what and which order to turn them on.

My family don't seem to have any trouble. The pre pro remotes are labelled as are the TVs. Inputs are obvious. Cable/sat for TV. Then media player will be the appropriate HTPC. Then it works like a computer they all use all the time. In the family room they select game input and use the game player. Not difficult, intuitive and obvious to all who use it. I would bet a universal remote would really confuse them.

 

[Golfx]

My family don't seem to have any trouble. The pre pro remotes are labelled as are the TVs. Inputs are obvious. Cable/sat for TV. Then media player will be the appropriate HTPC. Then it works like a computer they all use all the time. In the family room they select game input and use the game player. Not difficult, intuitive and obvious to all who use it. I would bet a universal remote would really confuse them.

We have different families.

 

[Trell]

They are for our family use who do not really care to learn which machine controls what and which order to turn them on.

Same for my family, and frankly, even I don't want to juggle with different remotes when I can just click "Watch TV" on my Logitech Harmony with the TV, AVR and AppleTV turning themselves on in order as well as setting output and input settings. Similar for "Listen Music" or "Watch Movie" that involves the BluRay player instead of AppleTV.

 

[highfigh]

I have never used one of these devices, and frankly don't see the point of them. I have got on very well without them. They seem much more of a detriment than helpful.

You aren't mentally overloaded by seeing a lot of buttons, many are. Consider the number of people who couldn't figure out how to stop the flashing of the clock on their VCR- that was very real.

Many people want one remote that handles all switching and it really is a good way to prevent confusion when handling remote controls- some look similar, but won't operate the piece that needs to be controlled at that time. One customer who had a Harmony which ALWAYS worked for me would frequently press the 'Device' button, then another botton for some function thta he never bother to remember. The color of the screen changes when this button is pressed and I would get messages stating that "It's not working, again", but his impatience was the cause. Some people press more buttons in quick succession, many press the buttons harder and neither works. Equipment won't do what's needed if they receive commands without enough time for them to process- AVRs often needed five seconds after the Power button had been pressed before the input commands would function.

Another reason for a universal remote, especially with RF communication- people don't always want to see ANY equipment and when the interior detonator gets their way, well, you know.....hiding the equipment makes proper operation almost impossble. without one remote that doesn't need line of sight.

Another problem- some remote controls were terribly designed. The one below has buttons on both faces and in order to operate some frequently used functions, slider switches need to be used. It's hard enough to read it in daylight and almost impossible in dim light.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zToAAeSwWJdoLSKw/s-l960.webp

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6kcAAeSwCMloLSKw/s-l1600.webp

 

[highfigh]

My family don't seem to have any trouble. The pre pro remotes are labelled as are the TVs. Inputs are obvious. Cable/sat for TV. Then media player will be the appropriate HTPC. Then it works like a computer they all use all the time. In the family room they select game input and use the game player. Not difficult, intuitive and obvious to all who use it. I would bet a universal remote would really confuse them.

The guy who used to put the remote in Device mode- the original remote can be seen in the photo- I was working on some programming additions and their daughter came into the room, to watch a DVD. She looked at the remote, pressed the Watch DVD button, waited for the screen to show 'Play Movie' along the bottom, then pressed enter before sittingback while it began. She had turned 3 a few months before. Another customer needed six months to learn to aim the remote at the IR receiver at the front of the room- it was his decision to have the equipment installed behind the basement bar, not mine. He was 62 at the time and used computers, printers and other devices that aren't necessarily intuitive and had problems with a power button.

I provided easy to understand cheat sheets for all of the customers, yet they either didn't read them, didn't want to or could't be bothered.

 

[TLS Guy]

You aren't mentally overloaded by seeing a lot of buttons, many are. Consider the number of people who couldn't figure out how to stop the flashing of the clock on their VCR- that was very real.

Many people want one remote that handles all switching and it really is a good way to prevent confusion when handling remote controls- some look similar, but won't operate the piece that needs to be controlled at that time. One customer who had a Harmony which ALWAYS worked for me would frequently press the 'Device' button, then another botton for some function thta he never bother to remember. The color of the screen changes when this button is pressed and I would get messages stating that "It's not working, again", but his impatience was the cause. Some people press more buttons in quick succession, many press the buttons harder and neither works. Equipment won't do what's needed if they receive commands without enough time for them to process- AVRs often needed five seconds after the Power button had been pressed before the input commands would function.

Another reason for a universal remote, especially with RF communication- people don't always want to see ANY equipment and when the interior detonator gets their way, well, you know.....hiding the equipment makes proper operation almost impossble. without one remote that doesn't need line of sight.

Another problem- some remote controls were terribly designed. The one below has buttons on both faces and in order to operate some frequently used functions, slider switches need to be used. It's hard enough to read it in daylight and almost impossible in dim light.

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/zToAAeSwWJdoLSKw/s-l960.webp

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/6kcAAeSwCMloLSKw/s-l1600.webp

I don't have equipment out of site and I have a large amount of equipment that predates remotes by years.

You have to actually go to a disc player to lead discs even if it has a remote. So I only use the on/off button and the selector to get it to connect to the AVP, and select the one app I use. I use the Comcast remote for live and its DVR service. When streaming I use my remote keyboard which is a very adaptable remote. For the DAW I have to use the connected key board and screen, So my use of any remote is very limited apart from the remote keyboards in the AV room and great room.

The best streamers are computers, that everyone knows how to use. I have no time whatsoever for those streaming systems, for that computers rule as far as I'm concerned.

 

[highfigh]

I don't have equipment out of site and I have a large amount of equipment that predates remotes by years.

You have to actually go to a disc player to lead discs even if it has a remote. So I only use the on/off button and the selector to get it to connect to the AVP, and select the one app I use. I use the Comcast remote for live and its DVR service. When streaming I use my remote keyboard which is a very adaptable remote. For the DAW I have to use the connected key board and screen, So my use of any remote is very limited apart from the remote keyboards in the AV room and great room.

The best streamers are computers, that everyone knows how to use. I have no time whatsoever for those streaming systems, for that computers rule as far as I'm concerned.

The only equipment in the house with the 3 year old that was in the room- TV and anything that needed to have a disc loaded oreventually, the turntable. Everything else was in the basement room below because someone had broken into their house and stolen something and he was a bit skittish about even doing the upgrade. They don't have a DAW and don't need one, have dropped cable on occasion and used DVD/BD/AppleTV for video when cable was turned off. I also installed speakers in other rooms- not cheap in-wall/ceiling, KEF 107 in the living room (replaced by Dynaudio Emit towers), Snell Type A in the dining room, Dynaudio Audience 42 in the Sun Room and kitchen (on top of a cabinet, replaced by Dynaudio in-ceiling speakers that were amazing) and in the room with the TV, Dynaudio 5.1.

 

[Trell]

The best streamers are computers, that everyone knows how to use. I have no time whatsoever for those streaming systems, for that computers rule as far as I'm concerned.

So you claim, but most people would not find a HTPC easier to setup, maintain and operate in the living room for watching and listening to streaming content, than, say, an Apple TV. One could say that an Apple TV is also a computer, but I guess that is not what you meant.

As I recall you do use the builtin TV apps, am I right? And if so, why not use your DAW and so forth?

 

[TLS Guy]

So you claim, but most people would not find a HTPC easier to setup, maintain and operate in the living room for watching and listening to streaming content, than, say, an Apple TV. One could say that an Apple TV is also a computer, but I guess that is not what you meant.

As I recall you do use the builtin TV apps, am I right? And if so, why not use your DAW and so forth?

Actually, I do use the HTPC and DAW for all streaming except the BPO as their site does not support Atmos via microsoft windows. In the great room we only use the HTPC for streaming and the VPN link to the UK, which is on both HTPCs and the DAW. My wife has no trouble using the HTPC. We very rarely play discs on that system, but it get hours of use via the HTPC and Comcast system. My wife loves that system. Just about everyone has computer skills now, and so using and HTPC is highly intuitive for pretty much everyone. They also give you far more choice with the "world being your oyster." I don't think members here realize how limiting streamers actually are, and I have long failed to understand their popularity.

 

[Golfx]

Actually, I do use the HTPC and DAW for all streaming except the BPO as their site does not support Atmos via microsoft windows. In the great room we only use the HTPC for streaming and the VPN link to the UK, which is on both HTPCs and the DAW. My wife has no trouble using the HTPC. We very rarely play discs on that system, but it get hours of use via the HTPC and Comcast system. My wife loves that system. Just about everyone has computer skills now, and so using and HTPC is highly intuitive for pretty much everyone. They also give you far more choice with the "world being your oyster." I don't think members here realize how limiting streamers actually are, and I have long failed to understand their popularity.

I’d say that last sentence is an insightful mouthful.

 

[Trell]

Actually, I do use the HTPC and DAW for all streaming except the BPO as their site does not support Atmos via microsoft windows. In the great room we only use the HTPC for streaming and the VPN link to the UK, which is on both HTPCs and the DAW. My wife has no trouble using the HTPC. We very rarely play discs on that system, but it get hours of use via the HTPC and Comcast system. My wife loves that system. Just about everyone has computer skills now, and so using and HTPC is highly intuitive for pretty much everyone. They also give you far more choice with the "world being your oyster." I don't think members here realize how limiting streamers actually are, and I have long failed to understand their popularity.

That you fail to understand does not surprise me.

 

[lovinthehd]

I have never used one of these devices, and frankly don't see the point of them. I have got on very well without them. They seem much more of a detriment than helpful.

A universal remote/macro control can be quite nice. Harmony is far better than Sofabaton (at least the one I tried) fwiw. You use what for remotes? Or you like hands on knobs?

 

[TLS Guy]

A universal remote/macro control can be quite nice. Harmony is far better than Sofabaton (at least the one I tried) fwiw. You use what for remotes? Or you like hands on knobs?

For the equipment that never had a remote it is hands on knobs. Turntables you can't work from remotes anyway, and nor the tape equipment.

I run the DAW from the editing desk, the RME has no remote, and that is the DAC for the DAW.

I use the remote for the AV 10, the LG TV remote and the remotes for the BD players sometimes, but you have to go over to them to take the discs in and out. I also use the Comcast remote. For the HTPC I use a remote keyboard, via a radio USB.

In the great room we just use the TV remote to switch it on and off. It is not a smart TV. We use the Comcast remote and a remote radio keyboard to the HTPC. It all works with no issues and is straightforward. So I don't have any issues with "NO LONGER SUPPORTED!

 

[highfigh]

Actually, I do use the HTPC and DAW for all streaming except the BPO as their site does not support Atmos via microsoft windows. In the great room we only use the HTPC for streaming and the VPN link to the UK, which is on both HTPCs and the DAW. My wife has no trouble using the HTPC. We very rarely play discs on that system, but it get hours of use via the HTPC and Comcast system. My wife loves that system. Just about everyone has computer skills now, and so using and HTPC is highly intuitive for pretty much everyone. They also give you far more choice with the "world being your oyster." I don't think members here realize how limiting streamers actually are, and I have long failed to understand their popularity.

You don't deal with a lot of people who see what their friends/acquaintences//family members have, they decide "I want that, too". Doesn't matter to them that they don't understand how to operate this stuff and some lie to get someone to install and set it up, which happened to me- the first question I asked was "You have experience and understand how to use a system like the one you want?" and he said "Sure". It was a total lie and at one point, his wife sent an e-mail that contained "This needs to work- it's affecting my marriage". No, your marriage needs to work better. Then, my customer who recommended me to them and for whom I'm working for the fourth time, asked me to meet him at their house, so I could demonstrate it. He said "It can't be much more simple than that". I went to the house with the former 3 year old and found the cheat sheet on the desk in the 2nd floor office, not in the Den where the system is used. I have been asked about why I run so many cables and when I explain, I usually hear "But, I thought everything is wireless".

Your likes and dislikes are very different from the mass market.

Think about the questions you read here at AH.

If your system operates so easily, why not make it available to the public?

 

[TLS Guy]

You don't deal with a lot of people who see what their friends/acquaintences//family members have, they decide "I want that, too". Doesn't matter to them that they don't understand how to operate this stuff and some lie to get someone to install and set it up, which happened to me- the first question I asked was "You have experience and understand how to use a system like the one you want?" and he said "Sure". It was a total lie and at one point, his wife sent an e-mail that contained "This needs to work- it's affecting my marriage". No, your marriage needs to work better. Then, my customer who recommended me to them and for whom I'm working for the fourth time, asked me to meet him at their house, so I could demonstrate it. He said "It can't be much more simple than that". I went to the house with the former 3 year old and found the cheat sheet on the desk in the 2nd floor office, not in the Den where the system is used. I have been asked about why I run so many cables and when I explain, I usually hear "But, I thought everything is wireless".

Your likes and dislikes are very different from the mass market.

Think about the questions you read here at AH.

If your system operates so easily, why not make it available to the public?

Not sure I follow. There is nothing that anyone with elementary computer skills could not figure out.

I have labelled all units on the AV 10 as to what they are when you press the button. Cable/sat says what it is, and the disc players are labelled. If you press the media player then it says HTPC. So if the TV input is set to HDMI, the TV acts like any Windows computer. You put in the code and then the main screen comes up. You open a web page and then you go to the site you want. So there is nothing particularly special to learn to get to what most people would use in everyday life and at work. If you are at all computer literate and can use a simple remote there should be nothing complicated about operating our systems. The unit in the Great room is simplicity itself. It uses this Beelink computer, that comes loaded with Windows 11. If the system has eARC then they can easily use their Smart TV apps, and when they press the TV audio button, then the sound will come from their audio system.

I would bet that if you set up your systems to use whatever the customer is using for their TV service, one of those Beelinks, and a disc player they would be happy and figure it out quickly. If not, then you have some very illiterate customers.

 

[Trell]

Not sure I follow. There is nothing that anyone with elementary computer skills could not figure out.

I have labelled all units on the AV 10 as to what they are when you press the button. Cable/sat says what it is, and the disc players are labelled. If you press the media player then it says HTPC. So if the TV input is set to HDMI, the TV acts like any Windows computer. You put in the code and then the main screen comes up. You open a web page and then you go to the site you want. So there is nothing particularly special to learn to get to what most people would use in everyday life and at work. If you are at all computer literate and can use a simple remote there should be nothing complicated about operating our systems. The unit in the Great room is simplicity itself. It uses this Beelink computer, that comes loaded with Windows 11. If the system has eARC then they can easily use their Smart TV apps, and when they press the TV audio button, then the sound will come from their audio system.

I would bet that if you set up your systems to use whatever the customer is using for their TV service, one of those Beelinks, and a disc player they would be happy and figure it out quickly. If not, then you have some very illiterate customers.

Why would anyone use your contorted and user unfriendly setup in the living room when all they want is to watch TV from streaming services? A desktop GUI-style works fine on a desktop (duh) but for most others that would just be awkward and inconvenient in the living room instead of using something easy like an Apple TV.

But here you are telling how easy it is to setup and operate an HTPC, but still you have to use a TV App for watching BPO because you are unable to make Atmos work on Windows 11 for that channel. And several remotes which also includes the unsightly keyboard and mouse they will have to put on the coffee board.

I find your arguments for this a little daft and disconnected from the real world.

 

[TLS Guy]

Why would anyone use your contorted and user unfriendly setup in the living room when all they want is to watch TV from streaming services? A desktop GUI-style works fine on a desktop (duh) but for most others that would just be awkward and inconvenient in the living room instead of using something easy like an Apple TV.

But here you are telling how easy it is to setup and operate an HTPC, but still you have to use a TV App for watching BPO because you are unable to make Atmos work on Windows 11 for that channel. And several remotes which also includes the unsightly keyboard and mouse they will have to put on the coffee board.

I find your arguments for this a little daft and disconnected from the real world.

It is far more flexible and gives you far more options. We watch a lot of UK TV and connect to our VPN daily and often several times daily. We don't want to pay for Apple TV. If you had our system you would realize how limiting your system is. Ours is far, far better. You have no idea how limiting your options are.
The other issue is that only one of our three TVs is SMART. The great room and family room TVs are older Panny plasmas and have no apps. So they are just end of the line units. They are now 17 years old. That is why I am furious about the short life of my previous two AVPs in the AV room which lasted 5 years for one and only three months for the last one. By the way the AVPs in those two rooms are the same age.
I like to keep gear long, it is far cheaper that way.
The remotes easily stow away in the table draws. So just the AVP remote, the Comcast remote, which is an RF remote and not IR, the TV remote which is only used to turn the TV on and off and the RF keyboard. It is very simple and flexible. The mouse is part of the Keyboard and and is a touch bad built into the unit.