Limiting lower end of Klipsch Forte speakers when used with sub

[Forsooth]

Hello --

I have been gifted a pair of Klipsch Forte speakers which appear to be in excellent condition.

I believe the Forte speakers were built at a time when a subwoofer was not a usual part of a home audio arrangement. I think one of their signature selling points was extended bass output.

If I were to use the Fortes with a powered subwoofer, wouldn't it be a good idea to electronically limit the Fortes' lower end so that the 12" cones wouldn't have to work so hard and possibly self-damage?

Thanks!!!

 

[lovinthehd]

I'd say yes, add the sub (somewhat depending on what you're listening to). The trick is how, with old 2ch gear you usually didn't get a crossover (or even a sub pre-out). AVRs are generally the easiest way to go with integration of a sub but depending on your gear you could add something external like a miniDSP 2x4.

 

[ski2xblack]

Those are some of the better speakers to come out of Hope. Nice score.

Those dig into the 30's by themselves, but you'll need corner placement to realize that. They also do best with heavy toe-in (think 45 degrees, which is what PWK recommended).

As for bass management, yes, it's advisable to high pass them (also noted in the review below to use a rumble filter), but you have a lot of wiggle room. Your ears would probably beg for mercy before the speakers showed much distress.

For your enjoyment:

 

[Forsooth]

I'd say yes, add the sub (somewhat depending on what you're listening to). The trick is how, with old 2ch gear you usually didn't get a crossover (or even a sub pre-out). AVRs are generally the easiest way to go with integration of a sub but depending on your gear you could add something external like a miniDSP 2x4.

Thanks very much. Yes, you're right, the Fortes were plug-n-play only. I'm now wondering how to low-pass them. I did some research on the miniDSP 2x4 and its technology and use appear to be a little "over my head," but I am going to look more into it. Thanks again.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thanks very much. Yes, you're right, the Fortes were plug-n-play only. I'm now wondering how to low-pass them. I did some research on the miniDSP 2x4 and its technology and use appear to be a little "over my head," but I am going to look more into it. Thanks again.

What gear do you have in the way of preamp/amp? Do you have tape or processor loops to insert the minidsp into? What are you listening to that you want to expand the bass range for?

 

[Forsooth]

Those are some of the better speakers to come out of Hope. Nice score.

Those dig into the 30's by themselves, but you'll need corner placement to realize that. They also do best with heavy toe-in (think 45 degrees, which is what PWK recommended).

As for bass management, yes, it's advisable to high pass them (also noted in the review below to use a rumble filter), but you have a lot of wiggle room. Your ears would probably beg for mercy before the speakers showed much distress.

Thank you for the reply and the REVIEW. Wow, the authors were very complimentary to the Fortes, indeed. After reading the review, I am much more enthusiastic about getting them up and running with a sub. They weigh quite a bit. I have each one on a small dolly just so I can move them.

Right now, I have the Fortes only...that is, no amp, no subwoofer, no wire, no nothin'...oh, well, one thing at a time.

By the way, I learned that Klipsch was bringing back the Fortes...a Mark III version. The new ones look very similar to the oldies...two horns, a front driver, and a rear passive radiator. The prices have changed though...will go for about $3600 for a pair. Due out late in 2017.

Thanks again!!

 

[lovinthehd]

Are you going to want more than the two speakers plus sub?

 

[Swerd]

From reading the July 1986 Stereo Review article, those Fortes look like very good speakers (@ski2xblack Thanks).

If I were to use the Fortes with a powered subwoofer, wouldn't it be a good idea to electronically limit the Fortes' lower end so that the 12" cones wouldn't have to work so hard and possibly self-damage?

Those speakers are conservatively rated at a high sensitivity of 93 dB, and are able to reach as low as 40 Hz with low distortion. For music, I don't see a good reason why you would want to add a sub woofer. Considering the sensitivity and low distortion, you'd have to pay a lot for a low distortion sub woofer that went an octave lower, about 20 Hz.

The article did say, "It sounded as though the speaker might have reached to 30 or 35 Hz, but, by design, it simply won't go to those depths". I don't see a reason why a high-pass filter is needed to further limit the low end of these speakers.

Try them without a sub woofer and then decide. If there ever were speakers that don't need sub woofers, it would be these.

The review article suggested using a 60 wpc amplifier.

 

[Swerd]

By the way, I learned that Klipsch was bringing back the Fortes...a Mark III version. The new ones look very similar to the oldies...two horns, a front driver, and a rear passive radiator. The prices have changed though...will go for about $3600 for a pair. Due out late in 2017.

Remember that the company that now owns the name Klipsch is nothing like the Klipsch company that made your speakers in 1986. That brand name has been bought & sold several times. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect the 2017 Forte Mark III (at $3600 per pair) to sound as good as the 1986 Fortes you have.

Get an amp in the 50-100 wpc range, and enjoy these speakers.

If you plan to use just two speakers, I can suggest these two:

Outlaw RR2150 Stereo Receiver at $699
Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Stereo Amp at $900​

Both models do have some built-in bass management functions, if you decide to add a sub woofer.

 

[Forsooth]

Are you going to want more than the two speakers plus sub?

Right now, no. Just the 2 Fortes. The reason I mentioned the subwoofer is that although the Fortes might be good in the bass area, I was thinking they..."even they!"...would not be able to compete musically with the currently available subwoofers, plus the Fortes are old and perhaps the cones and their surrounds are a little fragile. That is my thinking...to not push them bass-wise and let a subwoofer take care of the heavy lifting.

I'm an older guy and I have had some audio equipment in the past (think Electro Voice in 1967), but now just computer desktop speakers (with a subwoofer the size of my fist...lol) for the last many, many years, so a lot of audio stuff that everyone is talking about now is com-PLETE-ly alien to me.

I had to look up AVR, and "Aortic Valve Replacement" first came up. Scary.

Thanks!

 

[ski2xblack]

Remember that the company that now owns the name Klipsch is nothing like the Klipsch company that made your speakers in 1986. That brand name has been bought & sold several times. I could be wrong, but I wouldn't expect the 2017 Forte Mark III (at $3600 per pair) to sound as good as the 1986 Fortes you have.

The Forte III were designed by Roy Delgado, who was PWK's right hand man until he retired. The last commercial speaker they collaborated on was the forte II, which PWK chose to have as his office speakers. Roy is still with Klipsch and fully responsible for the Forte III (and their Cinema line). The new Fortes are real Klipsch.

Yes, they're owned by Voxx, but they seem to be giving Klipsch plenty of leeway to still be Klipsch.

I do agree with your equipment recommendations, Swerd, just to clarify that for the OP. I agree w/ Chris, an AVR is the least expensive solution (60 watts into 4 ohms min to be safe, but that should be plenty to drive you out of the room).

 

[Swerd]

The Forte III were designed by Roy Delgado, who was PWK's right hand man until he retired. The last commercial speaker they collaborated on was the forte II, which PWK chose to have as his office speakers. Roy is still with Klipsch and fully responsible for the Forte III (and their Cinema line). The new Fortes are real Klipsch.

Yes, they're owned by Voxx, but they seem to be giving Klipsch plenty of leeway to still be Klipsch.

You could be right, and I do hope so. But there are too many other old revered names in audio that, under different management, now sell junk. Let's hope for the best, but wait until the new speaker is shown to be as good as expected.

 

[lovinthehd]

Right now, no. Just the 2 Fortes. The reason I mentioned the subwoofer is that although the Fortes might be good in the bass area, I was thinking they..."even they!"...would not be able to compete musically with the currently available subwoofers, plus the Fortes are old and perhaps the cones and their surrounds are a little fragile. That is my thinking...to not push them bass-wise and let a subwoofer take care of the heavy lifting.

I'm an older guy and I have had some audio equipment in the past (think Electro Voice in 1967), but now just computer desktop speakers (with a subwoofer the size of my fist...lol) for the last many, many years, so a lot of audio stuff that everyone is talking about now is com-PLETE-ly alien to me.

I had to look up AVR, and "Aortic Valve Replacement" first came up. Scary.

Thanks!

Personally I'd try the Fortes without sub initially (and before use you do want to make sure the surrounds haven't gone bad....cones should be fine unless damaged). If they're in good shape I wouldn't worry about using them at all. As was said, these are among the few speakers that are worthy of going without sub unless you're trying to get movie soundtrack type of bass or 16hz organs or other deep bass....

AVR Audio Video Receiver

 

[Forsooth]

If you plan to use just two speakers, I can suggest these two:

Outlaw RR2150 Stereo Receiver at $699
Yamaha A-S801 Integrated Stereo Amp at $900​

Both models do have some built-in bass management functions, if you decide to add a sub woofer.

THANK YOU for the recommendations! Interestingly, I already had the Yamaha model in a Crutchfield cart and have been reading its User Manual.

I've never heard of the Outlaw brand, but I love the styling of the RR2150 - something between a 1940s silver travel trailer and the profile of an Art Deco era locomotive.

FROM THE OUTLAW USER MANUAL: "Bass Management selector switch...This switch lets you adjust the internal crossover (bass management system) to route user-selected low frequencies to the subwoofer output while the rest of the audio signal is sent to the amplifier and then to the main loudspeakers."

I don't think that the Yamaha has this type of bass management flexibility. Do you have any comment on this amateur observation?

Which unit would you buy? The ultimate difference in price is only $150 (Free ship Yamaha from Crutchfield, $50 ship from Outlaw).

Thank you for your help!!!

 

[ski2xblack]

Your amateur observations are correct: no bass management on the Yamaha, just a sub pre-out. While either would work very well, the Outlaw's bass management, while basic, is compelling. I would probably give the Outlaw a try if I were in your shoes.

 

[Forsooth]

Your amateur observations are correct: no bass management on the Yamaha, just a sub pre-out. While either would work very well, the Outlaw's bass management, while basic, is compelling. I would probably give the Outlaw a try if I were in your shoes.

Thank you for the recommendation!

 

[ski2xblack]

Don't thank me too much. The Outlaw is a bit rough around the edges (ridiculous remote, and the bass management is crude compared to a similarly priced AVR).

 

[TLS Guy]

Just forget the sub. Those speakers will sound best with no sub I think.

If you do use a sub then do not cross those speakers over. Just add the sub in gently staring at 60 Hz.

If you have capable speakers, and those are capable speakers, then you NEVER high pass them.

This forum is now populated by people who never knew a time where speakers had a capable lower end.

Now we have puny Far Eastern drivers that flutter or blow up at anything below 60 to 80 Hz.

You now have to practically take out a mortgage for a speaker or driver that won't just roll over asked to play below 60 Hz.

Just remember that speaker came from a different time, with different engineering parameters and not built half wrong in some Asian sweat shop.

 

[Forsooth]

Don't thank me too much. The Outlaw is a bit rough around the edges (ridiculous remote, and the bass management is crude compared to a similarly priced AVR).

Thanks!...such as...?

 

[Forsooth]

Just forget the sub. Those speakers will sound best with no sub I think.

If you do use a sub then do not cross those speakers over. Just add the sub in gently staring at 60 Hz.

If you have capable speakers, and those are capable speakers, then you NEVER high pass them.

This forum is now populated by people who never knew a time where speakers had a capable lower end.

Now we have puny Far Eastern drivers that flutter or blow up at anything below 60 to 80 Hz.

You now have to practically take out a mortgage for a speaker or driver that won't just roll over asked to play below 60 Hz.

Just remember that speaker came from a different time, with different engineering parameters and not built half wrong in some Asian sweat shop.

Thanks!! As others have recommended (along with you), I'm going to use the Fortes without a subwoofer. The only thing now is to buy a power source. I'm looking at the Yamaha or the Outlaw. I will "pull the trigger" on something before the weekend, just basically wanting a good solution. Any advice would be helpful. I'm an "Audiophyte," ain't it the truth, ain't it the truth!