Kimber Kable 4PR & 8PR Speaker Cable Review

[foeth]

If you take a receiver that has cheap amplifiers, of course you'll notice a difference in low-frequency distortion. But the important news for me is that cable technology includes the receiver itself. No wonder cables are so expensive nowadays. Perhaps you can also explain that weird boxed-shaped thing with circles on the other end of the cable? I think it may also influence the quality of the sound.

 

[zhimbo]

Post # 32 middle paragraph. I swapped out a receiver, and immediately noticed a marked difference.

My original question was regarding your assertion about speaker cables. From the post I was replying to:

I have been using Kimber Kable products for years in my system. Yes, there is a difference, even if not all people can perceive it. (...)

Heresy? Placebo effect? No (...)

Also, I think you're under the impression that if you don't expect a difference, but still hear a difference, there can't be a placebo effect. Simply not true. Strong expectations may make a placebo effect more likely, but neutral or even "anti" beliefs do not eliminate the placebo effect.

 

[CraigV]

My original question was regarding your assertion about speaker cables. From the post I was replying to:



Also, I think you're under the impression that if you don't expect a difference, but still hear a difference, there can't be a placebo effect. Simply not true. Strong expectations may make a placebo effect more likely, but neutral or even "anti" beliefs do not eliminate the placebo effect.

I have to be honest, I feel like I’m a football being teed up for kick-off.

Swapping out an average 14 gage wire to Kimber brought more focus to instruments and voices, and added depth where there hadn’t been any before.

I know many people like to disagree, but I know what I know, and I know it to be real. My original post had to do with the fact that several members on this site go out of their way to tell people there is only one way, and any claims of hearing any “differences” is a falsehood.

 

[zhimbo]

I have to be honest, I feel like I’m a football being teed up for kick-off.

Swapping out an average 14 gage wire to Kimber brought more focus to instruments and voices, and added depth where there hadn’t been any before.
.

I really and truly believe you heard a difference. I don't doubt the reality of that. You don't have to convince me of that.

However, hearing a difference can either indicate a real effect or a placebo effect.

What did you do to rule out a placebo effect?

Sorry to be repetitive, but if you clearly claim something is NOT a placebo, I want to know the basis for the statement. It sounds to me like you strongly believe it is not a placebo effect, but have not done anything to rule out the possibility.

 

[gene]

Swapping out an average 14 gage wire to Kimber brought more focus to instruments and voices, and added depth where there hadn’t been any before.

I know many people like to disagree, but I know what I know, and I know it to be real. My original post had to do with the fact that several members on this site go out of their way to tell people there is only one way, and any claims of hearing any “differences” is a falsehood.

Honestly if you prefer the sound with your new cables, more power to you! Personally I think music sounds better in low light rooms and I have no explaination other than it puts you in a more relaxed mood and clears your senses. I also think my system sounds better at night than during the day despite the noise floor in my theater room remains constant. Maybe it has to do with barometic pressure or my perception. Human perception is a very powerful tool so if it takes expensive cables to improve your perception, go for it and ignore the trolls!

 

[GO-NAD!]

I have to be honest, I feel like I’m a football being teed up for kick-off.

Swapping out an average 14 gage wire to Kimber brought more focus to instruments and voices, and added depth where there hadn’t been any before.

I know many people like to disagree, but I know what I know, and I know it to be real. My original post had to do with the fact that several members on this site go out of their way to tell people there is only one way, and any claims of hearing any “differences” is a falsehood.

I think that unless you conduct a double blind comparison of different cables, many people (including myself), will be sceptical that you really hear a difference. Sorry, but you will not convince us otherwise. If you don't care if we are convinced, that's OK. I won't try to convince you either. I can't speak for others though...

 

[zhimbo]

Honestly if you prefer the sound with your new cables, more power to you!

I agree...No one is under any obligation to justify their spending and listening habits. But people SHOULD be under obligation to back up their factual claims. (e.g., such as you KNOW it isn't a placebo, and IS due to properties of the cable.)

 

[CraigV]

I really and truly believe you heard a difference. I don't doubt the reality of that. You don't have to convince me of that.

However, hearing a difference can either indicate a real effect or a placebo effect.

What did you do to rule out a placebo effect?

Sorry to be repetitive, but if you clearly claim something is NOT a placebo, I want to know the basis for the statement. It sounds to me like you strongly believe it is not a placebo effect, but have not done anything to rule out the possibility.

Honestly if you prefer the sound with your new cables, more power to you! Personally I think music sounds better in low light rooms and I have no explaination other than it puts you in a more relaxed mood and clears your senses. I also think my system sounds better at night than during the day despite the noise floor in my theater room remains constant. Maybe it has to do with barometic pressure or my perception. Human perception is a very powerful tool so if it takes expensive cables to improve your perception, go for it and ignore the trolls!

I think that unless you conduct a double blind comparison of different cables, many people (including myself), will be sceptical that you really hear a difference. Sorry, but you will not convince us otherwise. If you don't care if we are convinced, that's OK. I won't try to convince you either. I can't speak for others though...

I hope you can all consider then that it will be hard to explain. I’m very tuned into sound. I (over) analyze everything I hear. At work last week, I kept asking “what is that high pitched squeal”? No one else could hear it. Turns out, it was a low battery warning on an AED unit on another floor. Please don’t get me wrong – I’m not trying to brag, honestly I wish my brain didn’t tune into and hyper-analyze every little sound I hear.

With the different components, including cable, my focus can turn from hearing the music notes being played to picking up on the most minute distortions in sound. In my particular system, I thought the distortion was from my amp or pre-amp. I switched from an average 14 gage wire to an “underdog” brand thinking there wasn’t any difference, but there it was – distortion. When I switched the speaker cable, the distortion went away, and all that was left was the sound. The very real effect of lobbing also disappeared, and I had a very smooth coherent soundstage. The Kimber was my RCA patch, the new speaker cable – (takes a big gulp as I realize this may get me banned) are Monster Z3’s I got for 75% off ($75) from accessories4less. I hacked them apart & converted two lengths into a bi-wire setup, and honestly, my system has never sounded better.

I find I can also remember distinct characteristics of a certain item, and hear differences between it, and another like item (receiver to receiver for example). What I continue to struggle with is why so many people tell me it must be in my head, or ask for verification. Why isn’t “taking my word for it” good enough? Would I be going too far by suggesting that some people must think “If other people can hear a difference, why can’t I”?

I know I’m not alone in this camp, but right now I feel like I’m standing up for others who won’t voice their observations. I’ve seen other people extol the virtues of the “sound” of a new amp or processor, and everyone says “good on you”. I feel like I’m on trial to prove myself, and it just feels wrong.

 

[zhimbo]

And yet, none of that speaks to whether you're experiencing the placebo effect or not. Not even slightly. It isn't like people with poor hearing are the ones who experience it and those with good hearing don't.

Indeed, when you say:

I (over) analyze everything I hear.

you rather sound like someone who would be more susceptible than average, good hearing or no. You sound like someone who gets both more "hits" (correct identification of subtle signals) and "false alarms". In fact, that's pretty much how perception works - if you detect very small changes, it is typically accompanied by an increase in false detections, as well.

The only reason I'm pursuing this is that you gave an unambiguous cause for the changes you detect. If all you said was "this is what I hear", I wouldn't have bothered.

 

[Soundman]

WOW! LIKE 88 POSTS IN ABOUT 26 HRS. Somehow I knew this was coming.

 

[gene]

When I switched the speaker cable, the distortion went away, and all that was left was the sound. The very real effect of lobbing also disappeared, and I had a very smooth coherent soundstage. The Kimber was my RCA patch, the new speaker cable – (takes a big gulp as I realize this may get me banned) are Monster Z3’s I got for 75% off ($75) from accessories4less. I hacked them apart & converted two lengths into a bi-wire setup, and honestly, my system has never sounded better.

A difference of opinion will never get you banned from this site.

 

[zhimbo]

A difference of opinion will never get you banned from this site.

But buying Monster might...some things are unforgiveable

 

[foeth]

Whenever there's an argument where there is disagreement, it is insufficient for either party to accept the others opinion on their word. It may be so, or maybe not. In order to convince somebody, you need to back up your claim. So in this case, a good double-blind experiment. If you are either unwilling or unable to perform this test, you cannot expect other people to believe you. Not because what you say is per definition wrong, but because the claim that there is no audible difference is a well-supported and proven hypothesis. Your claim is not backed up by irrefutable evidence. Hence, your point of view is poorly supported.

This doesn't mean you're wrong per se, it means it is most likely that you are wrong and most likely the others are right. You dismiss the placebo effect directly. Your experience with the battery-warning sound is not sufficient. We first of all have to take your word for it that it really happened. Second, I also tend to hear minute sounds such as cell-phone adapters and I still don't hear a difference between cables.

So, you can tell us all you want but you cannot expect us to believe you. Which we really don't and continuing to repeat your argument really doesn't help.

Also, I do not agree with the notion that if people are happy with a product, companies can go on selling them. Quackery in any form should be stopped because it appeals to emotion and not fact, discolors the view of newcomers to an area with non-facts, and gets people rich over the backs of the uninformed, the ignorant, or the gullible. If you want to buy brand-X or Y that's fine with me. But many people get scammed in shops by salesmen pushing people to products that do not have any added value to their function. You cannot expect everybody to be fully informed all the time .

This is why I protested against the positive review of this cable. If the review would have said you get no improvement of the sound quality and pay a very hefty sum for a nice connector and a new shiny cable, that would be an honest conclusion. The lackluster and nearly indifferent attitude against this cable from this audioquack is disappointing to me. Sifting through the review to pick up a few 'objective' fragments is insufficient. C'est le ton qui fait la musique. And not the cable.

 

[zhimbo]

If the review would have said you get no improvement of the sound quality and pay a very hefty sum for a nice connector and a new shiny cable

That's exactly and precisely what I took from the review.

 

[foeth]

Well, so did I, but I was making a point

 

[CraigV]

This is why I protested against the positive review of this cable. If the review would have said you get no improvement of the sound quality and pay a very hefty sum for a nice connector and a new shiny cable, that would be an honest conclusion. The lackluster and nearly indifferent attitude against this cable from this audioquack is disappointing to me. Sifting through the review to pick up a few 'objective' fragments is insufficient. C'est le ton qui fait la musique. And not the cable.

Despite the fact that this “audioquack” is the President of the Audioholics site, and its owner.

I’m curious what your motivation is for being so vehement about this “proof” you seek?

 

[Audioholics]

It was ready to eat and I am never late to a meal, especially when she is cooking

I'll second that!

 

[zhimbo]

Despite the fact that this “audioquack” is the President of the Audioholics site, and its owner.

I think he's referring to Kimber.

 

[CraigV]

This is why I protested against the positive review of this cable. If the review would have said you get no improvement of the sound quality and pay a very hefty sum for a nice connector and a new shiny cable, that would be an honest conclusion. The lackluster and nearly indifferent attitude against this cable from this audioquack is disappointing to me. Sifting through the review to pick up a few 'objective' fragments is insufficient. C'est le ton qui fait la musique. And not the cable.

I think he's referring to Kimber.

That's not the impression I got

 

[Adam]

Looks like I'm going to have to read the actual review. This thread has been interesting.

One point that hasn’t been made and really needs to be – this is Gene’s house, and we are all guests here. If Gene writes up a post about alien visitors who brought him speaker cable made from rare metals on their home planet, and they made his speakers sound better than ever, who are we to tell him he’s wrong?

I don't think that Gene wants a bunch of sheep hanging out here, but that's just my impression. If the emperor has no clothes, you tell him. I am NOT sayng that's the case here (I still have to read the review), but I do think that Gene wants our honest thoughts.

Honestly if you prefer the sound with your new cables, more power to you! Personally I think music sounds better in low light rooms and I have no explaination other than it puts you in a more relaxed mood and clears your senses. I also think my system sounds better at night than during the day despite the noise floor in my theater room remains constant. Maybe it has to do with barometic pressure or my perception. Human perception is a very powerful tool so if it takes expensive cables to improve your perception, go for it and ignore the trolls!

Exactly! Just because the pressure waves aren't different doesn't mean that someone's interpretation isn't (as has been said a few times in this thread already).