Kids and English

[nav]

- Ending a sentence with a preposition. There is actually a joke to help remember the rule: 'A preposition is not the kind of word to end a sentence with'.

The last English style guide I read (three years ago?) listed that as under the category of "bad form" rather than outright incorrect.

- Using apostrophes to indicate plurals - my favorite: CD's. The plural of CD is CDs. Think about spelling it out: 'Compact Discs' - not Compact Disc's.

The same style guide mentioned that as the once but no longer officially correct (I think 1970s -- but never years, as I just demonstrated) way of pluralizing acronyms. Not that most people have any way to use that as an excuse. I haven't really fact checked that though.

I remember a section on proper number usage that I have no hope for most people ever learning because the rules are horribly complicated .

A sentence beginning with a number is not written in numeric form except for dates. Correct: "Seventeen people arrived". Incorrect: "17 people arrived".

Except for the previously mentioned case, when a single number is used in a sentence it will be written out if it's less than two words and in numeral form otherwise (some guides say "if it's less than ten"). Correct: "He bought twenty-one boxes" or "He bought 1,027 boxes". Incorrect "He bought 21 boxes" or "He bought one thousand and twenty-seven boxes".

Sentences that contain more than a single number of similar usage should be written in numeral form. On the other hand, sentences that use numbers of different form should alternate between written out numbers and numeral numbers to differentiate what the numbers are describing.

Dates (as already touched upon), times, fractions, decimals, certain units, and addresses all have more special rules. It's awful, isn't it?

I'll let that be the end of my unofficial lesson on English grammar and style today .

 

[Matt34]

I would be barred from this forum if it was based on the way we type. I for one cannot spell(thank you spell check) and my sentence structure is something to behold.

Seriously though, I'm horrible, especially on forums such as this but what do you expect from a guy in an organization where over half the recruits coming in having the reading and comprehension ability of an 11yr old? (I actually researched that statistic too!)


Edit to add: I only speeled comprehinson wrog before I speeled cheked it.

 

[claudermilk]

My take on the original complaint is despair at the utter lack of caring--or ability--to form coherent thoughts online. I don't expect perfect grammar and even overlook most spelling errors; my fingers still foul up many times and I miss some of the typos. Even the typical 'net abbreviations are fine by me, I use them as shorthand (IIRC, AFAIK, etc.).

I do expect to see at least some effort at getting the concept across. I think a few people have the same gripe as I do with the idolizing of illiterate sports, music, and movie stars. BTW (there's one of those darn abbreviations!), how can you be an actor or songwriter and still manage to be illiterate? The mind boggles.

English certainly is one of the harder languages to learn as it borrows from everywhere and breaks its own rules all the time. The really sad part is I see non-English speakers making a greater effort to make themselves understood on the many US-centric fora than the natives; I guess that's part of what bugs me.

Enough ranting for today. (augh! a damn smiley!)

 

[philh]

With our kids (13 & 14), constant pressure to correct their English has been very effective. They attempted to argue, that's the way all the kids speak. One of their friends kept using my biggest pet peeve, "I want to axe you a question". I finally took her outside handed her the axe and showed her the wood pile. Took a couple of minutes, but she finally cyphered that using "axe" was not a good idear

Speaking correct English (or in our case "American") is important in the correct transfer of information. I attended a city board meeting and had a hard time understanding the "mouth breathing yokel" and his attempt to sound smart.

 

[MDS]

Style Guides

Regarding style guides, I wonder what such a guide would have to say about 'irregardless'. I was always taught that it is not a word and should never be used (the correct word is 'regardless').

Dictionary.com seems to agree:
Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

So many people use irregardless that it may someday be accepted as correct (I cringe when I hear it). We were also taught to avoid 'ain't', yet now I see that most dictionaries define 'ain't' as a contraction for 'am not', 'are not', 'is not', 'has not', or 'have not' and consider it acceptable if not controversial.

Ain't English fun?

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

We were also taught to avoid 'ain't', yet now I see that most dictionaries define 'ain't' as a contraction for 'am not', 'are not', 'is not', 'has not', or 'have not' and consider it acceptable if not controversial.

Ain't English fun?

Oh thank God. I've been waiting for official word on being able to use 'ain't' for years now. And the southern "hain't".

 

[agarwalro]

Another somewhat related mistake is generally made when saying the digits to the right of the decimal point.

Use 125.789 as an example.
When spoken, one hundred and twenty five point seven hunderd and eighty nine is incorrect. The correct way to say it is, one hundred and twenty five point seven eight nine.

This mistake irks me.

 

[Sheep]

Hm,

I can't see how this affects this forum. If the members understand what you're typing, then whats the big problem?

I know I don't type at a university level, but last time I checked, that wasn't a requirement to post on this forum.

This post is probably loaded with grammar issues, but I don't care. I'm sure the members looking for help don't care either. As long as they get help, where have I gone wrong?

I bet I help more people then half of you put together, but I have horrible English so I should not be listened to right? Go F*ck Yourselves.

SheepStar

 

[mike c]

if ya'll wud jus stik to migh oder thred, wid hav fun figthing abaut JUGS!
[sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic][sic]

 

[Rock&Roll Ninja]

Use 125.789 as an example.
When spoken, one hundred and twenty five point seven hunderd and eighty nine is incorrect. The correct way to say it is, one hundred and twenty five point seven eight nine.

And you'd be incorrect again. Correctly the number would be "One hundred twenty-five and seven hundred eighty-nine thousandths." the decimal point always becomes the 'And'. Same with money.

 

[Hi Ho]

I am an eighteen year old high school senior and I must say that many kids these days do not know any sort of proper English. I hear it all around me every day. "yo dude i got to get that thing"....

The scary thing is, many of the people actually believe they are speaking correct English. I have sat in many English classes and listened to kids say "What was wrong with what I wrote? Isn't ain't a real word?" Another very common one is "alot", which should be "a lot".

There are small errors that only nitpickers would notice and absolute perfectionists would point out. Then there is the blatantly obvious abuse of the English language that seems to be taking over.

I try to be grammatically correct in every part of my daily life. I'm not necessarily a perfectionist and I do not point out others' errors but I try to be correct myself. I am even that way in instant message conversations. I don't use acronyms like "lol" or "brb". It takes two extra seconds to type things out, and no, I do not type out "laughing out loud", I use "Hahaha".

 

[majorloser]

Hm,

I can't see how this affects this forum. If the members understand what you're typing, then whats the big problem?

I know I don't type at a university level, but last time I checked, that wasn't a requirement to post on this forum.

This post is probably loaded with grammar issues, but I don't care. I'm sure the members looking for help don't care either. As long as they get help, where have I gone wrong?

I bet I help more people then half of you put together, but I have horrible English so I should not be listened to right? Go F*ck Yourselves.

SheepStar

YOU GO SHEEP

 

[majorloser]

And you'd be incorrect again. Correctly the number would be "One hundred twenty-five and seven hundred eighty-nine thousandths." the decimal point always becomes the 'And'. Same with money.

I was wondering if anybody was going to catch that. It's also important to include the significant digit of zero.

Example: .25 (incorrect) 0.25 (correct)

 

[claudermilk]

Hm,

I can't see how this affects this forum. If the members understand what you're typing, then whats the big problem?

I know I don't type at a university level, but last time I checked, that wasn't a requirement to post on this forum.

This post is probably loaded with grammar issues, but I don't care. I'm sure the members looking for help don't care either. As long as they get help, where have I gone wrong?

I bet I help more people then half of you put together, but I have horrible English so I should not be listened to right? Go F*ck Yourselves.

SheepStar

Umm...yeah sure ok. That's a constructive attitude. You have to expect that the nature of the complaint will get people nitpicking grammar and spelling in this thread. I also don't think it was directed at you in any way, so the last comment IMHO is way out of line. Try not to take a general complaint personally, it will do your blood pressure wonders.

I took the complaint as pointing to the completely unintelligible posts you occasionally see.

 

[jaxvon]

I am an eighteen year old high school senior and...etc.

Finally, someone who understands what I'm talking about! This is exactly what I was getting at in my initial post. Thank you for being perceptive. It seems that many other people (not everyone, such as MDS) thought I was complaining about the forum or were even insulted by this thread.

I'm sad to say it but I still see the same mistakes you mention in your post in my second year of college. Keep your head up though, those of us who care need to stay strong and keep the language alive.

 

[Hi Ho]

I would also like to add that I am not grammatically perfect myself. I try to be but that does not mean that I know every rule in the book. My english education extends through the English 101 college course I took last trimester. I still don't know everything, and I don't believe I ever will.

 

[majorloser]

The English language is a living language. It continues to evolve and change. Each generation has added and subtracted from what is considered acceptable usage. Your generation has not achieved anything worse than what the previous ones have managed.

 

[doomguardian]

Me and sheep here are teh ub:r 1337 haxxors, meaning:

A language in which numbers and symbols are put together to look like letters. Some people create their own 1337 letters and it makes them look more 1337 by fellow 1337-speakers. Here is an alphabet of 1337 letters I know and have created:

A: 4 or l\ or ^ or @ or /\ or /-\
B. l3 or 8 or ß or ]3 or l:
C: ( or < or © or ¢
D: l) or l> or ])
E:3 or £
F: l= or # or ƒ
G:6 or 9
H: # or l-l or (-) or !-! or }-{ or }{ or l+l or )+( or !+! or }+{
L: 1 or ! or ][
J: _l or _/
K: l< or l( or l{ or l<=
L: l_ or ! or 1
M: l\/l or /\/\ or l\l\ or ^^
N: l/l or /\/
O: 0 or () or <> or * or ø or Ó or °
P: l* or l> or |D or l^ or l+
Q:& or (\) or ¶
R: l2 or ®
S: 5 or $ or §
T:+ or 7
U: l_l or /_/
V: \/
W:|/\| or \/\/ or |/\/ or \/\|
X: >< or }{ or :-:
Y: ¥
Z: 2()/\/\9 7^l+l+ 15 73)-( 1337 #l\:-:<>l2 1 +()l_l> _/<>* ^l3°l_l+ /\/\3}-{ #1213l/ll>!!!1!!11!1!! )+(3 |D\l\/l/l2.

translation:Oh my god that is the leet hacker I told you about my friend! He owns.

 

[MDS]

I have to wonder if these so-called 'leet' (that's Elite for normal people) hackers still write run-on sentences full of grammatical and spelling errors even when they use this non-sensical (and easily deciphered) 'language'.

Judging by the translation, I would say the answer is a resounding YES.

 

[majorloser]

Ahhhh, yeah, what he said.

Are we still talking about the English language?