JL F212 to dual SVS PB13 Ultra

[JonnyFive23517]

Initial listening impressions are decent for no real calibration. I feel like I have a hole around 30hz.

Are they placed at the same location the JL was? I think it's worth a subwoofer crawl to find your best two spots for placement, then calibrate from there.

 

[Hocky]

Are they placed at the same location the JL was? I think it's worth a subwoofer crawl to find your best two spots for placement, then calibrate from there.

No, there are 2 of them, so they can't be in the same location as the JL. ;-) One is close-ish to the JL position, but I wanted to keep them equidistant from the listening seat so I didn't go too crazy with placement. I am not worried about it - I will get it all smooth with EQ as soon as I have time to pull out the gear.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Nice set-up! Have you tried removing that coffee table to see if your system imaging improves without it?

 

[JonnyFive23517]

No, there are 2 of them, so they can't be in the same location as the JL. ;-) One is close-ish to the JL position, but I wanted to keep them equidistant from the listening seat so I didn't go too crazy with placement. I am not worried about it - I will get it all smooth with EQ as soon as I have time to pull out the gear.

They can be stacked or placed side by side, so can be in almost the exact location of the JL. Also, EQ can not save you from room nulls. If you have a black hole of a null at 30hz, then it's a sub location/seating location issue. I had a black hole at 42hz with my sub placed nearfield. Audyssey helped, but there was simply nothing to be done to correct it. In the end I had to move the subwoofer. That's why I was suggesting a subwoofer crawl to determine optimal placement.

 

[Irvrobinson]

They can be stacked or placed side by side, so can be in almost the exact location of the JL. Also, EQ can not save you from room nulls. If you have a black hole of a null at 30hz, then it's a sub location/seating location issue. I had a black hole at 42hz with my sub placed nearfield. Audyssey helped, but there was simply nothing to be done to correct it. In the end I had to move the subwoofer. That's why I was suggesting a subwoofer crawl to determine optimal placement.

I found the same problem with a deep null in my room with the sub where I wanted to place it (exactly midway between the mains). I didn't solve the problem by crawling though, I found that a mere three inch offset from the centerline eliminated the deep dip. Running the mains full-range also smoothed out some more minor peaks and dips, and some fancy EQ helped with the remaining issues. Inching around the sub(s) and measuring can sometimes produce dramatic results.

 

[Hocky]

Nice set-up! Have you tried removing that coffee table to see if your system imaging improves without it?

I have and honestly, it doesn't make much difference. The panels play down to 200hz, are nearly at table height and are angled slightly upwards, and have very tightly controlled vertical dispersion. I don't think there are very significant reflections. It has more interaction on the woofers, but the frequencies are low enough that it probably doesn't matter all that much.

 

[Hocky]

Here is the in room response before any EQ at the subs in 16hz mode. I am hoping that I can boost the 50-70hz dip a bit and not have to do much else.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Might be more informative to see it without the 1/6 octave smoothing? That's an outstanding FR graph, and is better than I can do even with EQ.

 

[Hocky]

Might be more informative to see it without the 1/6 octave smoothing? That's an outstanding FR graph, and is better than I can do even with EQ.

There isn't much difference with smoothing on vs off. Maybe some 1-1.5 DB squiggles here and there.

 

[Ed Mullen]

That is an insanely good in-room FR! You must have cooperative room modes - most response plots posted on the forums and received at SVS are much worse. Great work.....

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'm surprised there's no indication of a height or front/back mode in those graphs. I could see the L/R width mode having some cancellation with the duals on the front soundstage.

 

[Hocky]

Just so I am clear, what I meant is that this is with Audyssey's basic EQ that I ran during the quick and dirty set up earlier, but no individual EQ at the sub level yet. I

I'm surprised there's no indication of a height or front/back mode in those graphs. I could see the L/R width mode having some cancellation with the duals on the front soundstage.

The room isn't equal - there is no left wall. It is an L shaped room, so the interaction is probably quite a bit different than most rectangular rooms.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Here's my SB13 in my room without Audyssey (purple) and with Audyssey (green). This is after moving it to a better location from where it was before. I'm so jealous of your FR graph that my knee jerk reaction is to make an offer on buying your house Still, I'd double check your measurement settings. It does seem too good to be true.

 

[Ed Mullen]

The room isn't equal - there is no left wall. It is an L shaped room, so the interaction is probably quite a bit different than most rectangular rooms.

A non-symmetrical room layout can really help with room modes. I agree you are very fortunate in this regard. Normally the only way to deal with the axial length mode is with subs front/back.

 

[Hocky]

View attachment 12604

Here's my SB13 in my room without Audyssey (purple) and with Audyssey (green). This is after moving it to a better location from where it was before. I'm so jealous of your FR graph that my knee jerk reaction is to make an offer on buying your house Still, I'd double check your measurement settings. It does seem too good to be true.

Yea, that is rough. I don't think I need to double check my measurements.... it isn't particularly complicated to take them. haha. They were all taken at approximately ear level at the main listening seat. I don't bother to measure anywhere else in the room.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

What are you using to measure?

 

[Hocky]

What are you using to measure?

The Umik-1.

 

[Hocky]

OK, so here is how we ended up.... looks pretty clean over all. There is a room node at 120hz, but it is very small and is what it is, no reasonable sub positioning changes affected it. Now I need to do some listening. lol

Smoothed bass response:

Unsmoothed bass response:

Bass decay:

Bass waterfall:

Full range response, smoothed:

 

[Irvrobinson]

Very nice! Especially in the bass octaves. Most people can't get that smooth no matter what they do. The region above 4KHz looks quite elevated, usually a downward slope sounds most natural. Do the MLs have a level control for the panels? If so, have you experimented with them? Are you running the MLs full-range, or are you using a high-pass filter?

 

[Hocky]

The elevation and some of the roll off in the top frequencies is mostly Audyssey. I don't listen to music with it in that mode, but it sounds good with movies. For music, I use bypass mains for Audyssey. I don't have any direct control over the panels, just at the mercy of Audyssey. Maybe I need to get the custom installer deal so I can tailor it a bit. The panels cross in at about 250hz and play the rest of the way up. I ended up with an 80hz crossover on the mains as it yielded by far the best integration where as before I was running them full range.