JL F212 to dual SVS PB13 Ultra

[JonnyFive23517]

Do you have pics of the room, maybe 4 sealed subs would be an even better option you can get 4 uls15's for around $4000 and they are wireless, and I have yet to hear a more musical sub...

I haven't heard the ULS15's, but I would put the SVS SB13 up against it for musicality

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I did, but having sufficient ouput made me nervous.

If anyone pays asking price for anything, well..... haha. I don't have a good way to fit 4 subs. I can squeeze 3 in, though. Maybe I'll like these ones and order a third. lol

From what I've read, integrating an odd number of subs can be tricky. I think the general recommendations are 2 or 4?

 

[JonnyFive23517]

There is no way the SVS subs will sound too sloppy for music. I've never heard them, but it just couldn't be. That stuff you hear about ported enclosure bass is mostly audiophile baloney. The things people dislike about so-called "ported bass" is that some designers use a higher Q (like 0.7 or more) than they should, to make the bass more prominent for demos and rock, and that if a ported speaker has a rather high F3, like 60Hz, the steeper slope can sound less "musical" than the shallower, first-order slope you get from a sealed alignment. With a sub like the SVS both concerns will almost certainly be moot.

Agreed. The measurements on data-bass.com show the group delay of the PB13 *barely* breaking 1.5 cycles at the tuning frequency of 20hz. I doubt this would be audible.

 

[Hocky]

Agreed. The measurements on data-bass.com show the group delay of the PB13 *barely* breaking 1.5 cycles at the tuning frequency of 20hz. I doubt this would be audible.

I hope you're right. I'd like to put this subwoofer BS behind me and get back to enjoying my stuff.

 

[its phillip]

3 subs sounds great

 

[ImcLoud]

I haven't heard the ULS15's, but I would put the SVS SB13 up against it for musicality

I have listened to both, a single uls15 vs a single sb13 will result in the sb13 having more output but the uls15 being much more musical, its faster, cleaner and just sounds better... and if you add a second uls15 the sb13 can not come close, IMO.... I have listened to the uls15's a lot and they are a special sub, small, loud, clear, clean, fast and accurate... for music output isn't as important as with HT... I run my music subs turned down since they will over power most towers or bookshelfs I pair them with and destroy the balance...

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have listened to both, a single uls15 vs a single sb13 will result in the sb13 having more output but the uls15 being much more musical, its faster, cleaner and just sounds better...

Irv, this is really difficult to fathom. You're comparing two sealed subwoofers, and you think one sounds substantially cleaner and more musical than the other? Since both measure with reasonably flat frequency response and low distortion, why do you think that is the case?

 

[ImcLoud]

Irv, this is really difficult to fathom. You're comparing two sealed subwoofers, and you think one sounds substantially cleaner and more musical than the other? Since both measure with reasonably flat frequency response and low distortion, why do you think that is the case?

When we were comparing the svs, the song that showed me the difference was Adele's Rolling in the Deep and while the bass from the svs could easily overpower the room, the uls had this SMOOTH ULTRA FAST sound, the bass was so bouncy and you could almost bat it around the room, lol... glen {used to own quest audio} said it was because the room was "better" suited for the uls, but I find that hard to believe, why would one sub sound good in the room and the other not sound as good, BUT there has to be a sub you prefer, obviously... You have to listen to the uls15 to know what i am talking about, normally i prefer smaller sealed subs for music but what ever they did when building the uls15 was rite... There are obviously better subs out there, and I like svs products too, I just bought a pair of sb12's for my self. But for the money I prefer the uls15 to the sb13.. I felt like the sb13 had really good output but it had rumble in its musical bass where the uls had smooth reproduction, like a distinct start and stop vs a rumble to stop... Sorry if I am not explaining this good, its hard to convey what the differences are....

You will have a better idea if you play the adele song, turn the bass up and you will hear what I am talking about, there is this strong bouncy bass in there, that some subs don't react well to, I know it will show you the difference between a ported sub and sealed for sure.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rYEDA3JcQqw with the uls15 and the svs sb12 this song sounds awesome, with my sw300's, the sb13, kef 9", and a couple others I have demo'd it rattles it around a little.... This is one of my test songs, and the bass isnt super low but it separates the good from the great... Also the mids and highs are really nice in that song, I love her voice, this is also one of the songs I use to show off my systems, people are always floored by how revealing it can be...



Don't get me wrong, the svs is an amazing subwoofer, and you will not find anything as nice for its price with that kind of output, for a sealed sub that thing smashes, it is LOUD... But I prefer the uls15 after spending some time with it.... On the other hand I like how the sb12 sounds a lot and I think for music where you don't need 3600 watts that sub for $600 is a great bargain...

 

[JonnyFive23517]

Here's the SB13 waterfall plot measured by Dale Brasco on HTR



I can't find a comparable graph of the ULS-15, but I'd be surprised if its decay characteristics are better than the SB13.

 

[ImcLoud]

I am pretty sure there are measurements for the uls somewhere... I just googled sb13 vs uls15 and read through quickly, it seems most prefer the uls15's... I am not sure why they sound so good {and the svs sounds awesome too} but they just do... I just read that the uls has a built in eq, not sure if that matters?

 

[JonnyFive23517]

The SVS have several built in EQ features, although I disable that and leave it to Audyssey EQ. As for the comparison between the two, I'll put a ULS on my list of subs to try and listen to.

 

[Hocky]

How do you know that you ordered a sub that counts? It gets dropped off by a Semi, on a pallet, using a pallet jack.... and there are 2 of them. It is pretty sad that when I got them into the house and was unpacking them, I couldn't help but think how lightweight and easy to move they are. The sad thing about that is that I think they're like 160lbs each and are absolutely massive. The JL is just so much heavier and denser that it is much more difficult man handle. I haven't set them up yet, but my initial impressions are that their shipping time was amazing (3 business days to my door from the click of my order), well packaged, and fit / finish is very nice and easily on par with the much more expensive JL. The cabinets don't feel quite as solid as the JL does, but the JL is a bit smaller in size and a fair amount heavier. They are absolutely huge, though, much bigger than I expected even though I knew the dimensions. lol. I am looking forward to getting them set up and dialed in over the next couple of weeks to see how they perform and what the comparison is to the F212.

 

[GlocksRock]

I don't think you will be dissapointed, those things are beasts!

 

[Irvrobinson]

If you have a cat I'd recommend keeping the grilles on. Those ports will be irresistible.

 

[JonnyFive23517]

I'll be curious to hear your comparisons with the JL!

 

[Hocky]

If you have a cat I'd recommend keeping the grilles on. Those ports will be irresistible.

I do... and kids. The grills will most certainly stay on.

 

[ImcLoud]

Congrats they look awesome, I just got my tracking number from svs for a pair of subs too but it looks like they wont be here until Tuesday of next week ... How does the wood grain look? I went with the piano, I don't own any subs in piano...

 

[Hocky]

The wood grain is pretty good. It is close to the wood on my ML speakers.


I have have started a quick and dirty calibration just to hear them and my initial impression is that they don't have anywhere near the output of the single JL. Set by ear/iPhone spl meter, they are set at -3 and 0db volume to match what the JLs level was. We will see as I get them legitimately dialed in.

 

[Irvrobinson]

I have have started a quick and dirty calibration just to hear them and my initial impression is that they don't have anywhere near the output of the single JL. Set by ear/iPhone spl meter, they are set at -3 and 0db volume to match what the JLs level was. We will see as I get them legitimately dialed in.

Something smells fishy. Did you have them in sealed, 15Hz, or 20Hz mode? In 20Hz mode just one SVS should be more than a match for the 212, just guessing. According to Josh Ricci, the SVS supposedly has 5-6db more output than my DD18+, so it is difficult to believe that the 212 is so superior.

 

[Hocky]

Something smells fishy. Did you have them in sealed, 15Hz, or 20Hz mode? In 20Hz mode just one SVS should be more than a match for the 212, just guessing. According to Josh Ricci, the SVS supposedly has 5-6db more output than my DD18+, so it is difficult to believe that the 212 is so superior.

16hz. As it turns outs, something was fishy. I think my mains were far enough out of phase to be doing some canceling before I reran audyssey. I ended up with the subs back to -16 and -19 which is reasonable and probably not too terribly far off of what the JL would calibrate in at.

Initial listening impressions are decent for no real calibration. I feel like I have a hole around 30hz, but I will figure that out when I have time to actually measure and get things set up properly. However, in Hotel California each note of the bass line is crisp, clear and well differentiated. I like to test punchiness and dynamic range with Yim Hok Man Poems of Chinese Drum and they sound tight and certainly don't have any dynamic range issues. I feel like the decay is not quite as good as the JL, but that might be my imagination because I am fighting a lot of in room vibrations. For a quick movie scene, I used the opening scene of Transformers 2. I think that they are more impactful than the JL stuff is here and they don't sound like they're being worked terribly hard.

Hopefully I will have some time to get everything legitimately dialed in and measured this weekend and can post back with some real impressions and data to back it up. For all I know, I might still have the system 6db hot in the bass and my results now are meaningless. Time will tell, but as of right now I feel like these are pretty decent subs and certainly for the money.