JL Audio Subs

[Spiffyfast]

I actually did email JL audio about the sub being alot like the W7 so ill have to post that when it comes back

 

[Privateer]

So, they can defy physics? Or is that an instaneous(misleading and useless in otherwords) power rating?

Maybe they have a built in line conditioner that makes it 40 amps, hell that is why they have a staff of 50 people building/designing this thing.

 

[WmAx]

Maybe they have a built in line conditioner that makes it 40 amps, hell that is why they have a staff of 50 people building/designing this thing.

Yes, you can change 20 amps to 40 amps, with a transformer. But in doing so, you must reduce voltage by 1/2, and account for transformer losses. So, you end up with the same power[I*V still =P](minus the small transformer losses), just at lower voltage.

-Chris

 

[Spiffyfast]

Ya know, I figured there would only be about 5 or 6 responses to this thread when I started it....I really wanna buy a W7 and an amp just to put the thing together and turn it on, watch master and commander and then have everything on my walls fall down when the cannons fire and think to myself, no its not exactly the prebuilt setup, but d*** its amazing

 

[mulester7]

.....whew, good thread....what say we send out for cheap Chinese?.....

 

[mulester7]

"Hello everyone, I am about to complete my home theater setup and need a little advice. I am not spending tons of money on my setup but as it is with everyone want the best performance for the $$$"

.....Privateer, this is from another thread, and exemplifies what this site is all about, at least concerning the vast majority's attitudes and positions....you don't tell this guy to not waste his time with ANY other alternatives and direct him to a high-end shop....I appreciated some of your responses, but you've still got a little Beemer/Old Navy in youse.....

 

[RLA]

Can anyone recommend a good amp for my next DIY subwoofer?
one that is Energy Star efficent would be great

 

[Sheep]

some one buy this JL subwoofer, and get this thread over with. I'm sure it will sound nice, and rich snobs like privateer can go and buy it, and sit alone in there house and listen to it. who cares what he says/does.

by the by, this amp could power it.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=A6000GTI&ser=GTI&cat=AMP

 

[mawst95]

I've never seen someone so stridently defend a product (Gotham) that they never heard. You keep calling it amazing but have you heard it? Has anyone? Do you know which driver they use? I have no idea who you are but you are, Privateer, but you are embarrassing yourself. I think the kids call it getting "teh pwn3d!!1"

 

[annunaki]

I don't know what you are referring to. I don't know why(or care to speculate) why they price things they way they do.

You can buy the same W7 drivers for $500 each. You can buy a suitable P.A. amp for $300. Factor in cost of wood and materials, and you can build the single driver 12" version for about $1000 as opposed to the $2400 for the pre-fabbed version.

-Chris

Chris,

The drivers are W7 derivitives. Not actual W7s. The amplifiers are pretty severe in terms of power output as well. Their ARO (Acoustic Room Optimization) works quite interestingly as well. Does that justify the price, I do not know.

 

[annunaki]

4. JL's own recommendations are for 500-800 watts, to safely operate the subwoofers. More power for anything more than an instant will overheat and damage the voice coils.

Chris,

JL actually recommends the JL 1000/1 on the 12W7. 1000 watts rms,1.5-4ohms, 12-14.4 volts with .05%thd. The W7 drivers have huge thermal limits. JL's continuous power ratings are very conservative. If the rate a woofer at 500 watts, it will take it for something like 8 hours. A 12W7 can handle as much as 1,500 watts rms, however, that is not recommended for most people. Feel free to contact JL Audio's tech support at 954-443-1100. I sell their subs all the time. They handle quite a bit of power.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Ok, got my response back from JL Audio about the subs...

Thank you for your E-mail and your support of JL AUDIO products. The drivers in the Home Products subwoofers are of the "W7" family however they are different than "W7" mobile audio drivers. These Home drivers have been designed specifically to provide maximum performance for the specific cabinet, amplifier and electronics in each model of Home subwoofer. The 13.5" driver found in the FATHOM f113 is specific to that unit and different than the 13W7 used in the GOTHAM g213 and different than the 13W7 mobile audio product. At this time all Home Audio product information is available on our website exclusively. One reason for our releasing Home Products at this time is to provide the level of performance that our mobile users have come to expect for the home environment. Thanks again.

So they are still W7's just tweaked for specific use....ok well I still think I can build a DIY with a W7 and a nice sub amp and save about 1500 dollars, so we'll see what happens when I finally upgrade my system in a few weeks.

 

[miklorsmith]

So. . .

The essential debate seems to be whether more performance can be had by throwing gobs more money at your subwoofer. It would be truly sad if the answer is no.

However, terrific performance can be had with DIY projects. The appeal of them is the fact that you built it with your own hands, saved a ton of money, and can have great performance that will impress all that hear them. Subwoofers are an excellent DIY project.

Or, you can go out and buy the most expensive unit and be done with it. The pride here is taken by having the best there is and that you obviously have plenty of disposable income, which is impressive. Your friends too will think you the bee's knees, as they say over the pond. This would be the Robb Report approach.

How much is the last 2% or 5% or 10% worth? It's a personal decision based on individual values and means. That said, others probably don't care that much about the last 2% and won't appreciate having it lorded over them, especially related to their own systems.

 

[WmAx]

Chris,

The drivers are W7 derivitives. Not actual W7s. The amplifiers are pretty severe in terms of power output as well. Their ARO (Acoustic Room Optimization) works quite interestingly as well. Does that justify the price, I do not know.

Yes, I realize they are probably not the exact same W7, as I stated in the next reply after the one you quoted. So far as the ARO -- it is highly improbable that it can approach the versatality/power of a DCX2496 DSP unit.

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

The home version has been modified from the car version.

Come on the velodyne DD has a magnet of 380 ounces, and it keeps 100% of the quality.

It is modified by being able to work in a slightly smaller sealed enclosure, and the W7 logo has also been removed from the cone. That is about it from my conversations with JL's tech support.

So the car version needs a slightly bigger enclosure. Big deal.

Also, magnet size and weight really mean nothing about a subwoofer. It is all in the design of the parts as a system.

 

[WmAx]

Chris,
The W7 drivers have huge thermal limits. JL's continuous power ratings are very conservative. If the rate a woofer at 500 watts, it will take it for something like 8 hours. A 12W7 can handle as much as 1,500 watts rms, however, that is not recommended for most people. Feel free to contact JL Audio's tech support at 954-443-1100. I sell their subs all the time. They handle quite a bit of power.

The power levels I suggested were based on JL's own application sheets. So, you can blame JL, as this is what they officially suggest as being a reliable/safe amount of power(in their little power scale graph on the application sheet). If the unit can withstand 1500 RMS as opposed to 750RMS, reliably, then you will gain a subtle 3dB of SPL maximum output. Of course, the SPL of such a subwoofer, at even 400 watts, is far more SPL could be used in a realistic sound reproduction scenario in any normal size room.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

How much is the last 2% or 5% or 10% worth? It's a personal decision based on individual values and means. That said, others probably don't care that much about the last 2% and won't appreciate having it lorded over them, especially related to their own systems.

I don't see any evidence that even 2% improvement is possible with a retail product. In fact, as I stated earlier, the custumized product can be better than a retail product, because you can customize it work optimally in your specific application(s).

-Chris

 

[annunaki]

The power levels I suggested were based on JL's own application sheets. So, you can blame JL, as this is what they officially suggest as being a reliable/safe amount of power(in their little power scale graph on the application sheet). If the unit can withstand 1500 RMS as opposed to 750RMS, reliably, then you will gain a subtle 3dB of SPL maximum output. Of course, the SPL of such a subwoofer, at even 400 watts, is far more SPL could be used in a realistic sound reproduction scenario in any normal size room.

-Chris

Quite true Chris about the latter portion of your statement. I merely stating that JL does not produce and "peak" power handling figures for their wooofers. Continuous only. They do handle much more than their conservative numbers indicate. However, as you stated the gaind are not sufficent to warrant that type of use (abuse).

 

[miklorsmith]

Don't doubt it

I don't see any evidence that even 2% improvement is possible with a retail product. In fact, as I stated earlier, the custumized product can be better than a retail product, because you can customize it work optimally in your specific application(s).

From a performance point of view, I don't actually doubt that. I don't see the need for 3800 watts of power for any home application either, for that matter. However, the fit'n'finish of a commercially produced unit is almost certain to be superior, and there's no substitute for $ spent when you're telling others how much you spent.

 

[WmAx]

However, the fit'n'finish of a commercially produced unit is almost certain to be superior,

This depends entirely on the skill/effort of the builder. If you hang around DIY watering holes, you'll see that in several examples, the quality of construction is superior to commercial products, as it happens that many people who start DIYing were already accomplished woodworkers/craftsmen.

and there's no substitute for $ spent when you're telling others how much you spent.

True.

-Chris