JL Audio Subs

[Privateer]

Still no technical argument? But I'll reply to just one of your questions that happens to not be a petty insult:

I am pointing to YOUR comment the YOU made.

1. The amplifier rating of the subwoofers is peak outpout(not continous). So, the number they give is meaningless, except for marketing.

A RMS and PEAK or TOTAL output are different ratings!

3. The subwoofer voice coils are not even rated for 1000W, continuos thermal.

You do not even know they are the SAME driver, jaxvon said that they are modified versions.

5. QSC makes a $300 pro amp that outputs over 800 watts continous in mono.

Hey lets just throw another amp in because all amps sound the same.

6. 400 watts would be plenty of power, so no need to even buy the 800 watt output amplifier. Double the power results only in 3dB of SPL gain.

What a stupid comment, the decibel curve is not linier, meaning a 3db increase at 70db and a 3db increase at 90 db are not the same.

8. Why are you interested in what I run for a sub? It may be that I have only my AM/FM clock radio to provide myself with audio enjoyment. It's irrelevant to the discussion, if I can even hear.

Then why did you have DIY comment on the sub?

So far, it appears that the entire premise of your argument[which is void of any technical reasoning],

Same with your due to the fact that we have little information on the sub.

is that no one can make a subwoofer just as good, but for lesser money, than one can buy something pre-fabricated from retail.

Like I said do not let me stand in your way. Obviously you could not notice QUALITY if it bit you in the ***.

Because, you say so. I wonder if, based on your logic, that you also would consider the Linkwitz Orion to be a mediocre speaker, that is not true hi-end quality, because it is not very expensive and can be built by anyone with some basic woodworking skills?

Do what you want there chief because you DIY'ers are all the same, every crossover sounds and performs the same, your cheap receiver can perform the same as my processor.

 

[MacManNM]

Hey lets just throw another amp in because all amps sound the same.

All Good amplifiers can sound the same. http://www.roger-russell.com/truth/truth.htm#goodamplifiers

What a stupid comment, the decibel curve is not linier, meaning a 3db increase at 70db and a 3db increase at 90 db are not the same.

3db is 3db, it doesn't matter if it's at 300 db. As long as the field on the driver doesn't saturate.

 

[WmAx]

I am pointing to YOUR comment the YOU made.

Which was a fine comment. You have not yet made a single point that is valid, why a DIY sub should be of lower quality.

A RMS and PEAK or TOTAL output are different ratings!

What are you talking about?

You do not even know they are the SAME driver, jaxvon said that they are modified versions.

Certainly, I realize it may be a minor difference in the home version(most likely a change in the coil, to increase impedance and not as cosmetically appealing, since it will not be used for show purposes like the car versions may be). But, of course, I stated two or three posts back: It's the same W7 technology and size. Even if it's a different driver, by some small detail(s), then it does not matter, as the car version models just fine in software simulation.

Hey lets just throw another amp in because all amps sound the same.

I never said all amps sound the same. Some are poorly designed, and have frequency response deviations of audible magnitude and/or noise/distortion(s).

What a stupid comment, the decibel curve is not linier, meaning a 3db increase at 70db and a 3db increase at 90 db are not the same.

Your statement does not apply to this situation. The reference to dB here was in relation to using a 400w vs. 800w amplifier, and the difference in SPL on the same speaker.

Then why did you have DIY comment on the sub?

Regardless if I have MBL speakers or a Sony clock AM/FM clock radio, as my main listening system, to DIY is good advice, to save money and get high quality.

Same with your due to the fact that we have little information on the sub.

There is plenty of info on the car version. It has been reviewed and measured by 3rd parties. It is among the finest quality and most linear subwoofer drivers available. With basic mathematical modeling, it is easy to design the optimum alignment for a given purpose, and then execute the manufacture of the cabinet. The crossover, for this application, is also simple. A subwoofer uses a simple low pass target transfer function. Their is no multi-axial considerations, as even is found on midrange-tweeter integration, with a crossover. The crossover for a subwoofer is about as simple as you can possibly get. The specific DSP crossover that I referred to above, is leaps and bounds superior than anything that you will find built into an OEM subwoofer. It is capable of virtually any function you could want, in conjunction with speakers in real applications.

-Chris

 

[Francious70]

Coming in late on this discussion.

I'm not really a fan of JL. I think you can get better speakers for a fraction of the price. JL has always been a bandwagon kinda brand in my area anyways (more reason to look at something else) so I was never really interested in them.

Paul

 

[Spiffyfast]

I think you can get better speakers for a fraction of the price. JL has always been a bandwagon kinda brand in my area anyways
Paul

I guess everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but I have to completely disagree, JL has always been the company in car audio that delivered the best performance for the price. You can put an entry level JL sub up against most company's top subs and there will be a negligible difference. Take the JL W7's and its a whole new story. Never heard them called a bandwagon brand before, people I know had never heard of them before I got a pair, so I was the minority everyon else was using eclipse or rockford or mtx or cerwin vega. I guess it turned out to be a bandwagon, except I was the minority but after people heard them almost all of friends ended up switching them and most competitions I went to ppl with JL subs ended up winning. But thats just my two cents. Come on JL come out with subs more people can afford !!!!!!!!!!

 

[Privateer]

Which was a fine comment. You have not yet made a single point that is valid, why a DIY sub should be of lower quality.

And visa versa with you, there is no information in any of your posts that suggest your DIY sub can compete with the JL, velodyne, sunfire or any other high end manufacturer.

There is plenty of info on the car version.

Bingo, the CAR version!

It has been reviewed and measured by 3rd parties. It is among the finest quality and most linear subwoofer drivers available.

No ****, why do you think I am interested in purchasing the home version?

With basic mathematical modeling, it is easy to design the optimum alignment for a given purpose, and then execute the manufacture of the cabinet.

To make it work not to optimize it for the BEST performance and sound quality. Hell why don't you go apply with a higher end manufacturer with your superior knowledge and redesign there products.

The specific DSP crossover that I referred to above, is leaps and bounds superior than anything that you will find built into an OEM subwoofer. It is capable of virtually any function you could want, in conjunction with speakers in real applications.

Right, because all the engineers at krell, velodyne, sunfire, B&W, mcintosh just slap there products together.



Like I stated earlier there is not point in arguing with a DIY'er simply because of how they think.

 

[Privateer]

3db is 3db, it doesn't matter if it's at 300 db. As long as the field on the driver doesn't saturate.

Volume wise, so instead of having a sub that outputs 97db at 400 watts it will output 100db at 800 watts, that will be a huge increase in overall volume as compared to a 3db increase from 90db to 93db.

All Good amplifiers can sound the same.

Good or decent, not some $300 PA amp.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Well I dont know why u are arguing about this, but as far as i knew, a speaker is a speaker where ever it is located, whether its in a car or in a home and second a PA amp might not the greatest sound possible, but for bass it might be able to do the trick and just the satisfaction for some people of building a DIY and it may even sound better that an expensive manufactured sub to them b.c they built it, on the other hand...an amp like this might do the trick with a quality box for that unbelievably loud and clear sound of an outrageously priced sub

http://www.rbhsound.com/sa400.shtml

I think that hooked up to a JL 13W7 might put out some very nice low end for a home theater

 

[WmAx]

And visa versa with you, there is no information in any of your posts that suggest your DIY sub can compete with the JL, velodyne, sunfire or any other high end manufacturer.

The physics of designing a bass alignment are known and easily calculable. You apparently have no experience/knowledge in this respect.

Bingo, the CAR version!

No ****, why do you think I am interested in purchasing the home version?

Then, I wonder what your issue is with the car version being used in a home?

To make it work not to optimize it for the BEST performance and sound quality. Hell why don't you go apply with a higher end manufacturer with your superior knowledge and redesign there products.

Straw man argument.

Right, because all the engineers at krell, velodyne, sunfire, B&W, mcintosh just slap there products together.

It would be expensive to include such a DSP as the DCX2496, especially when it's vast functionality is not used by everyone. But it's functionality is superior to what is included with a OEM integrated xover on a sube, none the less.

Like I stated earlier there is not point in arguing with a DIY'er simply because of how they think.

When did I say that I'm a DIYer? I did not disclose such information in this thread. It's irrelevant.

I'm still waiting for you to describe the technical problems preventing a DIY subwoofer from equalling the performance of a retail subwoofer, since this is your argument[which so far you have given exactly zero valid reasons].

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

Volume wise, so instead of having a sub that outputs 97db at 400 watts it will output 100db at 800 watts, that will be a huge increase in overall volume as compared to a 3db increase from 90db to 93db.

This point is irrelevant to the discussion. The issue was[and still is] 800 vs. 400 watts SPL difference on the same transducer.

Good or decent, not some $300 PA amp.

And why would anyone who reads your replies believe that you know what makes a good and/or decent amplifier? Why should I[or anyone] presume you can judge this, when in this discussion[for example], your reples to technical inquiries have essentially been limited to "because I said so" style of debate[along with random petty insults]?

-Chris

 

[Privateer]

I'm still waiting for you to describe the technical problems preventing a DIY subwoofer from equalling the performance of a retail subwoofer, since this is your argument[which so far you have given exactly zero valid reasons].

Then do it, while you are at it maybe you can build a version of the JBL K2 S9800 for a fraction of the price. You want reasons, open up a velodyne DD-18 and find out.

 

[Privateer]

And how would you know what is good and/or decent? Why should I presume you can judge this, when in this discussion[for example], your reples to technical inquiries have essentially been limited to "because I said so" style of debate.

So you think a Mcintosh MC1201 is all show?

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Good or decent, not some $300 PA amp.

These are all PA amps. A $300 to $500 PA amp is more than ample to drive a woofer not needing to reproduce frequencies above 200Hz. You are wasting your money on anything more. A good eq will dial in that subs strengths moreso than an expensive monobloc by itself.

www.svsubwoofers.com/ampeq.htm

 

[WmAx]

So you think a Mcintosh MC1201 is all show?

What does the McIntosh MC1201 have to do with anything in this discussion?

How does the McIntosh MC1201 demonstrate that you know anything about the subjects at issue and/or lend you credibility in this discussion?

You want reasons, open up a velodyne DD-18 and find out.

What does a Velodyne DD-18 have to do with anything in this discussion?

How does the Velodyne DD-18 demonstrate that you know anything about the subjects at issue and/or lend you credibility in this discussion?

-Chris

 

[Privateer]

WmAx

Then post your favorite PA amp for me to compare.

 

[Spiffyfast]

now those are the kind of subwoofer amps I'm talking about....I think I might try it, I used to build boxes for car subs all the time, gimmee a chance to do some wood finishing and not just fiberglass it all for the finish, but that could be neat too, then u could turn it into a sculpture with a sub in it.....oh the possibilities of DIY work

 

[WmAx]

now those are the kind of subwoofer amps I'm talking about....I think I might try it, I used to build boxes for car subs all the time, gimmee a chance to do some wood finishing and not just fiberglass it all for the finish, but that could be neat too, then u could turn it into a sculpture with a sub in it.....oh the possibilities of DIY work

Spiffyfast, it would be neat[in concept] if you could use those P.A. style amps and DIY the cabinets. Unfortunately, according to the the resident expert[Privateer], it would seem that you can not build a high quality subwoofer cabinet for yourself or use such[low cost] amplifiers to power them if you want high quality bass reproduction.

-Chris

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

You want reasons, open up a velodyne DD-18 and find out.

The DD18 has the same DIGITAL lightweight amp as the HGS10. Yes, the Velodyne 10" sub. It's most likely a $300 class D amp.

 

[Spiffyfast]

Well I dont think he has any idea of what he's talking about then, he needs to go to a SPL Drag for car audio, go see what a DIY setup can accomplish, in escence its the same thing, a sub (ok, multiple subs, depends how crazy ya wanna go) a home made box and an amplifier or 2 or 3 or 4, a little ingenuity, and some elbow grease to do it. I had 3 10" Orion Subs in my car, 1000 watta mono amps to each one and shattered my front window, thats what a DIY project can do, but nope can't compete with a manufactured product.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

I had 3 10" Orion Subs in my car, 1000 watta mono amps to each one and shattered my front window

LOL. My side hurts. What was your final spl rating? Although that's impressive at competitions, it doesn't do much for your inner ear or ability to enjoy music in the later years of life. I can't hear much past 16kHz because of my younger stupidity at frat parties, and love of bass in cars.

I've got a PMiller 924watt class D mono amp pushing two 4 ohm PMiller 10" DVC's in parallel at 1 ohm. (not the best quality, but more than enough to damage hearing for a lifetime) I don't push it to its limits, but boy does it sound impressive. It will hit harder and go lower than most home subs, although it's not really a fair comparison in the enclosed space of a truck vs a 18x30 living room.