Is this possible?

[shadyJ]

Great!

Any other things that should be pointed out to a newbie like me?

One example:
I have heard you need to "break-in" your speakers...no idea what this means or how to do it.

Any other tidbits of info that would help me out doing this for the first time? Does speaker wire matter? As long as it is the right gauge do I need to worry about certain brands? I am assuming these speakers do not come with wire...

Break-in is largely a myth. There are some technical parameters that do change over time that silly audiophiles think they can hear. For practical purposes, there is no such thing. Speaker wire brand doesn't matter. Just get the right gauge for the distance. Follow the guide on this page and you will be fine. Speakers do not come with wire.

One other thing, with Revel Performa speakers, you can aim them right at your or in your general direction, so doesn't have to be right at you. They have a wide dispersion and will sound fine either way.

 

[mazersteven]

Great!

Any other things that should be pointed out to a newbie like me?

One example:
I have heard you need to "break-in" your speakers...no idea what this means or how to do it.

Proper break in you need to play this 100 times in a row at Reference Levels for proper speaker break in. Or else your speakers will sound terrible after the break in.

 

[Leemix]

The only break-in you need to worry about is the first 5-10 minutes, maybe not even that but speakers can sound really horrible right when you play for the first time. My dads new speakers(some years ago now) sounded so bad the first minute his jaw dropped, i told him we should give it 5 minutes and left the room, came back a few minutes later and everything was fine. Speakers do change a little over time but so much else influences the sound and how we hear it so doesnt matter.


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[tonyspizza]

I certainly would not turn the volume up to 10 on a new set of speakers, but I've never heard of breaking in new speakers before.

I've heard of breaking in new brake pads and perhaps a new motor..

 

[nicholas_d_88]

Alright guys - I went to the local audio store (only one that carries any of the brands we have talked about). Here are my impressions

1) The store only had a very select few speakers hooked up to actually listen to
2) There was only one "setup" that was designed to show off the equipment (stereo setup, not surround)

They had:
B&W 600 series
B&W 704
B&W 702
Revel Concerta Series
Focal Something (Didn't test those)

What they had me do:
Sit in a specific spot in the room and then played a song. While the song was playing they would switch from one pair to the next. I definitely thought the B&W 702 were the best sounding in that specific setup...they are also 5K a pair which was the most expensive in that lineup.

They did have a pair of Revel 206's in a stereo setup but it was in the corner of a larger room and not really setup to show off those speakers so its hard to say if I liked them as much as the 702's

As for subs...the salesman said he prefers the SB SVS sub vs the PB because of the accuracy of the sealed box. Again, couldn't hear either the SB-3000 or the PB-3000 so I am still on the fence about what sub to go with...I do plan on adding a 2nd sub in the future...so does it make sense to end up with 2 SB-3000? Or do you all still feel like I should go with the PB-3000 and lose some of the "accuracy" or ability to rapid fire the bass vs. a slower punch...again, hard to say what I like when I can't demo them...

The next thing we talked about was the surround setup and he strongly suggested I do a 5.1.4 setup to start. He said having 4 ceiling speakers for atmos was a game changer vs. 2 (in their show room)...This poses a couple of issues...
1) My receiver can only do a 7 channel setup, not 9
- I am waiting to upgrade my receiver for proof that they can pass through 4K/120Hz to an Xbox Series X. As of right now, no AVR can do this. Something about a HDMI hardware issue on the AVR's that don't talk well to the Xbox Series X.
- Would it make sense to go ahead and buy the 4 ceiling speakers and install them and only have 2 of the 4 hooked up initially? I assume by then end of 2021 AVRs will have the issue figured out so I would buy a new receiver within 12 months hopefully.
2) If I do upgrade my receiver, should I try and go with a 11 channel to be able to add 2 more surrounds for an eventual 7.2.4 setup?
3) If I stick with a 9 Channel receiver...would you suggest a 7.1.2 setup or a 5.1.4 like the salesman suggested?

Also - Speaker wire...He quoted me expensive wire for my front 3 speakers and then "cheap" wire for all the surrounds. Thoughts?

Here are the two quotes he gave me...1 for a B&W setup and 1 for a Revel setup...would love to get some feedback from you guys on all of this...

B&W Setup
- 2 x 702 S2 (Black) $4,500
- 1 x HTM71 S2 (Black) $1250
- 2 x 607 (Black) $490
- 4 x CCM665 $175ea ($696 Total)

Revel Setup
- 2 x 208 (Black) $4,000
- 1 x C208 (Black) $1,000 (Used)
- 2 x S16AM (Black) $750
- 4 x C383 $56ea ($224 Total)

Same in both quotes
- Custom SBW Pair Speaker Cables (Specify Terminations) $329
- 6' Single Custom Speaker Cable (Specify Terminations) $129
- Bulk FLX-DB 16/4 White $200 (Qty 200 @ .99 per unit...I am assuming 200 feet worth of wire)
- 3.0M Digital Coax Forest $39
- SB3000 (Black) $1000

 

[mazersteven]

Sounds like the Sales Guy was pitching you marketing Bologna

 

[Leemix]

You dont need expensive cables for front, well made 12AWG pure copper is fine. If you want to try cables later sure but dont use a lot of money on that now at least. If you want something thats a little better looking, well made and not very expensive then Blue jeans cables are a popular option on the forums.

Its nice you got to hear a few different speakers and spend a bit of time with them. Now go again in a few days. Its always good to hear them more than once, especially when listening to several at the same time.(and not having a lot to compare to)


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[nicholas_d_88]

No one really backed B&W on this thread but I was very impressed with the 702 S2 in their stereo setup. Seemed "tight" & "crisp" more so than the lower end Revels for sure. It was hard to compare the 702 S2 to the Revel 206 though because they were in different rooms and the 702's were absolutely setup to sound their best and the Revel was just put somewhere to be able to show them. I am sure that made a difference.

@mazersteven - What marketing was he pitching me? The cables? The B&W?

@Leemix - I do plan to go back and have them play a couple songs I listen to in my car. That way I can listen to something I am very familiar with to see what it sounds like on the various equipment.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Alright guys - I went to the local audio store (only one that carries any of the brands we have talked about). Here are my impressions

1) The store only had a very select few speakers hooked up to actually listen to
2) There was only one "setup" that was designed to show off the equipment (stereo setup, not surround)

They had:
B&W 600 series
B&W 704
B&W 702
Revel Concerta Series
Focal Something (Didn't test those)

What they had me do:
Sit in a specific spot in the room and then played a song. While the song was playing they would switch from one pair to the next. I definitely thought the B&W 702 were the best sounding in that specific setup...they are also 5K a pair which was the most expensive in that lineup.

They did have a pair of Revel 206's in a stereo setup but it was in the corner of a larger room and not really setup to show off those speakers so its hard to say if I liked them as much as the 702's

As for subs...the salesman said he prefers the SB SVS sub vs the PB because of the accuracy of the sealed box. Again, couldn't hear either the SB-3000 or the PB-3000 so I am still on the fence about what sub to go with...I do plan on adding a 2nd sub in the future...so does it make sense to end up with 2 SB-3000? Or do you all still feel like I should go with the PB-3000 and lose some of the "accuracy" or ability to rapid fire the bass vs. a slower punch...again, hard to say what I like when I can't demo them...

The next thing we talked about was the surround setup and he strongly suggested I do a 5.1.4 setup to start. He said having 4 ceiling speakers for atmos was a game changer vs. 2 (in their show room)...This poses a couple of issues...
1) My receiver can only do a 7 channel setup, not 9
- I am waiting to upgrade my receiver for proof that they can pass through 4K/120Hz to an Xbox Series X. As of right now, no AVR can do this. Something about a HDMI hardware issue on the AVR's that don't talk well to the Xbox Series X.
- Would it make sense to go ahead and buy the 4 ceiling speakers and install them and only have 2 of the 4 hooked up initially? I assume by then end of 2021 AVRs will have the issue figured out so I would buy a new receiver within 12 months hopefully.
2) If I do upgrade my receiver, should I try and go with a 11 channel to be able to add 2 more surrounds for an eventual 7.2.4 setup?
3) If I stick with a 9 Channel receiver...would you suggest a 7.1.2 setup or a 5.1.4 like the salesman suggested?

Also - Speaker wire...He quoted me expensive wire for my front 3 speakers and then "cheap" wire for all the surrounds. Thoughts?

Here are the two quotes he gave me...1 for a B&W setup and 1 for a Revel setup...would love to get some feedback from you guys on all of this...

B&W Setup
- 2 x 702 S2 (Black) $4,500
- 1 x HTM71 S2 (Black) $1250
- 2 x 607 (Black) $490
- 4 x CCM665 $175ea ($696 Total)

Revel Setup
- 2 x 208 (Black) $4,000
- 1 x C208 (Black) $1,000 (Used)
- 2 x S16AM (Black) $750
- 4 x C383 $56ea ($224 Total)

Same in both quotes
- Custom SBW Pair Speaker Cables (Specify Terminations) $329
- 6' Single Custom Speaker Cable (Specify Terminations) $129
- Bulk FLX-DB 16/4 White $200 (Qty 200 @ .99 per unit...I am assuming 200 feet worth of wire)
- 3.0M Digital Coax Forest $39
- SB3000 (Black) $1000

Holy cow. That’s a lot to unpack. I’ll take a shot later but initially I call BS on the “loss of accuracy” so FR me it’s still ported. I do agree with 5.1.4 over 7.1.2.

 

[mazersteven]

#1- audio stores can control the environment that you listen in.

#2 - cable to the Front L/R/C different from the rest. That's just Bologna.

Blue Jeans Cable -- Quality Cables at Reasonable Prices

#2A - seal vs. ported subs "accuracy" "or ability to rapid fire"
The keyword when describing the difference between sealed and ported is "Quality". When you're dealing with quality subwoofers that have quality Built Construction quality Components and Drivers quality Design. Then the difference between sealed an ported is minimal so minimal it's almost non-existent. Can it be seen on measurements possibly but can you hear it? Just remember one thing the Room is the biggest effect on Subwoofer Performance.

Now a non quality subwoofer a poorly designed subwoofer with cheaper components yeah you might be able to hear a difference at that point but again poorly designed poor quality that's where the differences lies

 

[shadyJ]

Alright guys - I went to the local audio store (only one that carries any of the brands we have talked about). Here are my impressions

1) The store only had a very select few speakers hooked up to actually listen to
2) There was only one "setup" that was designed to show off the equipment (stereo setup, not surround)

They had:
B&W 600 series
B&W 704
B&W 702
Revel Concerta Series
Focal Something (Didn't test those)

What they had me do:
Sit in a specific spot in the room and then played a song. While the song was playing they would switch from one pair to the next. I definitely thought the B&W 702 were the best sounding in that specific setup...they are also 5K a pair which was the most expensive in that lineup.

They did have a pair of Revel 206's in a stereo setup but it was in the corner of a larger room and not really setup to show off those speakers so its hard to say if I liked them as much as the 702's

As for subs...the salesman said he prefers the SB SVS sub vs the PB because of the accuracy of the sealed box. Again, couldn't hear either the SB-3000 or the PB-3000 so I am still on the fence about what sub to go with...I do plan on adding a 2nd sub in the future...so does it make sense to end up with 2 SB-3000? Or do you all still feel like I should go with the PB-3000 and lose some of the "accuracy" or ability to rapid fire the bass vs. a slower punch...again, hard to say what I like when I can't demo them...

The next thing we talked about was the surround setup and he strongly suggested I do a 5.1.4 setup to start. He said having 4 ceiling speakers for atmos was a game changer vs. 2 (in their show room)...This poses a couple of issues...
1) My receiver can only do a 7 channel setup, not 9
- I am waiting to upgrade my receiver for proof that they can pass through 4K/120Hz to an Xbox Series X. As of right now, no AVR can do this. Something about a HDMI hardware issue on the AVR's that don't talk well to the Xbox Series X.
- Would it make sense to go ahead and buy the 4 ceiling speakers and install them and only have 2 of the 4 hooked up initially? I assume by then end of 2021 AVRs will have the issue figured out so I would buy a new receiver within 12 months hopefully.
2) If I do upgrade my receiver, should I try and go with a 11 channel to be able to add 2 more surrounds for an eventual 7.2.4 setup?
3) If I stick with a 9 Channel receiver...would you suggest a 7.1.2 setup or a 5.1.4 like the salesman suggested?

Also - Speaker wire...He quoted me expensive wire for my front 3 speakers and then "cheap" wire for all the surrounds. Thoughts?

Here are the two quotes he gave me...1 for a B&W setup and 1 for a Revel setup...would love to get some feedback from you guys on all of this...

B&W Setup
- 2 x 702 S2 (Black) $4,500
- 1 x HTM71 S2 (Black) $1250
- 2 x 607 (Black) $490
- 4 x CCM665 $175ea ($696 Total)

Revel Setup
- 2 x 208 (Black) $4,000
- 1 x C208 (Black) $1,000 (Used)
- 2 x S16AM (Black) $750
- 4 x C383 $56ea ($224 Total)

Same in both quotes
- Custom SBW Pair Speaker Cables (Specify Terminations) $329
- 6' Single Custom Speaker Cable (Specify Terminations) $129
- Bulk FLX-DB 16/4 White $200 (Qty 200 @ .99 per unit...I am assuming 200 feet worth of wire)
- 3.0M Digital Coax Forest $39
- SB3000 (Black) $1000

Your salesman doesn't know very much. All he knows is what he is told from brand marketing.

Between B&W and Revel, go with Revel.

The SB-3000 doesn't have any accuracy advantage over the PB-3000. That is all your salesman's imagination. He just doesn't know what he is talking about, which is so often the case with audio equipment salesmen.

That speaker wire is stupidly expensive. Just get 12 AWG copper wire from Blue Jeans cable or Monoprice. Measure how much you think you will need. For cable to the height speaker, you might need to get CL2 rated cable that could be mandated by building codes in your area.

I definitely do not feel that 5.1.4 is a "game-changer." Your salesman is just looking to sell you more equipment. If I were you, I would just order your stuff online and not bother going back there.

 

[Truthslayer]

Your salesman doesn't know very much. All he knows is what he is told from brand marketing.

Between B&W and Revel, go with Revel.

The SB-3000 doesn't have any accuracy advantage over the PB-3000. That is all your salesman's imagination. He just doesn't know what he is talking about, which is so often the case with audio equipment salesmen.

That speaker wire is stupidly expensive. Just get 12 AWG copper wire from Blue Jeans cable or Monoprice. Measure how much you think you will need. For cable to the height speaker, you might need to get CL2 rated cable that could be mandated by building codes in your area.

I definitely do not feel that 5.1.4 is a "game-changer." Your salesman is just looking to sell you more equipment. If I were you, I would just order your stuff online and not bother going back there.

Well said.

 

[mazersteven]

If you go back bring your source material to audition. Stuff your very familiar with.
One of the things I listen for is the highs. I pay attention to how detailed they are. I then focus on how balanced or neutral non colored they are. JMO but I like to hear what I put in to come out exactly as intended.
I would also make them move the Revels into the B&W room. Into the exact position the 702's were in. See how they sound there. Now that position might not be for them so you'll have to play with positioning.
Take your time. Have Fun

 

[mazersteven]

Don't want to spend the money on the Revel 226's

Salk Sound

www.salksound.com

 

[nicholas_d_88]

So I will defend the salesman in a couple areas...
1) I honestly don't think he was trying to upsell me with the 4 height speakers vs. 2...both option in height speakers he quoted are relatively cheap compared to the other components. If he was trying to upsell me I would assume the rear channel speakers would have been higher end as well as the ceiling speakers. I mean one quote is $57ea for the ceiling speaker. I am actually concerned that is not expensive enough haha.
2) I don't think he ever used the word "accuracy" when describing the PB vs SB subs...the way he described it to me was "imagine you are watching a war movie and they are firing a gatling gun. That gun is going to sounds more realistic with the SB sub because it can fire more rapidly and keep each "hit" separate so they don't muddle together"...I translated that to the word "accuracy" which is probably my fault for describing it in that way. Nonetheless I think you have convinced me to stick with PB-3000 vs. the SB-3000

My concerns...Install/Warranty/Support

Install
- I will need to run wires through my ceiling in order to install the height speakers...I don't feel overly confident doing this...the room is an addition to the house and has no access to the space in between the ceiling and the roof...I would like to have a professional wire those (as well as wiring my rear surrounds to look nice vs. me just trying to stick the cables under my carpet)...I am sure I could figure it out but not sure I want to take that on.
- I am also wondering what tweaking might be needed on my receiver to get the best sound out of the speakers? Crossover levels? I don't know what I am talking about at all with this which is why I don't really trust myself to get it "calibrated"...is that even a thing? Or do you just need to plug in the wire and not touch any settings on the receiver?

Warranty
- What if I get a dud? What if something happens 6 months in and I hooked it up wrong, or did something that voided warranty? I assume I would have to pay for S&H if I needed to ship the speaker back for repairs/replacement. That shipping cost would probably be $100-200 right? If I purchased it locally then I am assuming they would handle the warranty process and just bring me a new/repaired speaker.

Support
- Because this is my first "real" system, I would like to be able to have some knowledgable people supporting me with the process. You all are great, but none of you are going to make a house call to troubleshoot something that broke/doesn't sound right/needs to be tweaked because some hardware has changed (i.e. buying a new receiver down the line, adding a 2nd sub, etc.)

He also gave me a "discount" on the B&W from 5K to 4.5K and the Revels from 5K to 4K (not to mention the used C208 that they are selling for 1K instead of 2K)...Where am I going to get those prices and a person I can call if something is not right? That "peace of mind" is something that appeals to me.




I think it is a really good idea to ask him to put the 206's in the same setup/position/room as the 702's and play some of MY MUSIC so I can really pick out the differences in a song I am familiar with. Are the 208's better acoustically/musically/reproducing the sound vs. the 206's? Or are they just "louder" "fuller"? Basically...if I like the 206's ALMOST as much as the B&W 702's will that mean I will like the 208's MORE? Again...so hard because I can't hear the 208's right next to the 206's right next to the 702's (that setup would be ideal to hear the differences)

Once again - thank you all for the time, energy and effort you have put into this thread to educate me so I can try to make the best decisions. You all are amazing!

 

[mazersteven]

The 208's will play deeper and give a larger soundstage then the 206's. Both have the same tweeter.

I see you like the Security and Piece of Mind of purchasing locally. That all sounds nice but I've seen many "local" businesses drop the ball.
And of the 15+ years on these forums I don't think I've heard of Jim Salk Dropping the Ball and leaving his customers out in the cold after the sale. Just some information

 

[nicholas_d_88]

@mazersteven - Thank you for the clarification on the 206 vs 208...so If I like the highs on the 206 as much as the B&W 702's then I will like the 208's as well for the highs but it will give me better mid/lows

I don't know what I will ultimately end up doing (in terms of who I purchase from) but the fact that they have a used C208 for 50% off and then going from 5K to 4K on the 208's...who else is going to match those prices?

Is there anything to look out for on a used C208? Any reason I shouldn't consider doing that for 50% off the cost of a new one?

 

[mazersteven]

Is there anything to look out for on a used C208? Any reason I shouldn't consider doing that for 50% off the cost of a new one?

Just make sure it cosmetically looks good and sounds good

 

[Leemix]

Basically every post i have seen about 2vs4 atmos speakers do say 4 is a lot better so its probably a good idea to do that from the start. Seems like good price from the local store and i also often feel like its nice to have a store i can walk into and talk to them and you save on shipping. The demo center is most likly fine but get warranty on it, not sure how that is where you are but where i live hi-fi stores give full warranty on demo gear.
Not sure its mentioned but speakers nowdays are very good so its mostly personal taste that decides, not every speaker is for everyone though.


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[sterling shoote]

If your going to run a 2 sub system you want the subs to be the same. So if your looking at a large room in the future that means getting the proper sub today or else your wasting money. JMO

And I don't think your going to get a lot of recommendations on the brands and series that you've listed.

Just my thoughts too if you're not listening to music on this system or only 1% of the time. I would concentrate on speakers with a great center channel for if movies are the main use.

Premier 800F

4-driver, 3-way bass reflex floorstanding

www.paradigm.com

Premier 600C

6-driver, 3-way passive radiator bass reflex center channel*Stand not included

www.paradigm.com

HDI-3600 | 2 ½-way Triple 6.5-inch (165mm) Floorstanding Loudspeaker

Designed and engineered in JBL’s world-famous acoustic engineering facility in Northridge, California, the HDI-3600 delivers exceptional performance from a compact footprint. This floorstanding loudspeaker features a 2 ½-way design with patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide...

www.jblsynthesis.com

HDI-1600 | 2-way 6.5-inch (165mm) Bookshelf Loudspeaker

Designed and engineered in JBL’s world-famous acoustic engineering facility in Northridge, California, the HDI-1600 delivers exceptional performance from a compact enclosure. This bookshelf loudspeaker features a 2-way design with patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide technology, the...

www.jblsynthesis.com

HDI-4500 | 2 ½-way Quadruple 5.25-inch (130mm) Center Channel Loudspeaker

Designed and engineered in JBL’s world-famous acoustic engineering facility in Northridge, California, the HDI-4500 is the anchor of a complete HDI Series surround system. This center channel loudspeaker features a 2 ½-way design with patented High-Definition Imaging (HDI™) waveguide technology...

www.jblsynthesis.com

I love your JBL HDI recommendation; but, I've got to tell ya I wonder about buying the 1600's for use as surrounds, seems like over kill. I base my opinion on my use of JBL L20t3's as surrounds in my 5.1 system which is over kill in spades. I think today I'd go for something in the JBL Stage Series for surrounds.