Is morality relative?

[Alex2507]

Men are more moral than they think and far more immoral than they can imagine.

-Sigmund Freud

That sounds about right coming from a coke head ... but I'm not judging him.

The premise to be examined is that lying is absolutely immoral. (This is a generally held view of many in society.)

I don't think lying is wrong so much as it's a waste of time and it's inconvenient. My take on the 10 commandments is that bearing false witness against somebody is a no-no.

From the book Dune I remember a line that said something about not letting you morals keep you from doing the right thing. I think that in any given situation there is a right thing for me to do. As for everybody else ... well, I have my plate full trying to figure out my right thing.

 

[JerryLove]

I don't think lying is wrong so much as it's a waste of time and it's inconvenient. My take on the 10 commandments is that bearing false witness against somebody is a no-no.

I'm built like Arnold Schwartzenegger (circa 1980) and hung like Mr.Ed.

 

[nibhaz]

I don't think lying is wrong so much as it's a waste of time and it's inconvenient. My take on the 10 commandments is that bearing false witness against somebody is a no-no.

From the book Dune I remember a line that said something about not letting you morals keep you from doing the right thing. I think that in any given situation there is a right thing for me to do. As for everybody else ... well, I have my plate full trying to figure out my right thing.

Big thoughts for a monkey!

Lying is a waste of time and effort unless she is out of town

 

[Alex2507]

Taking a late evening drive to go get ice cream is wrong ...

... be back in a few ...

Hey, I haven't had any in weeks. I'm celebrating ...

 

[Adam]

Taking a late evening drive to go get ice cream is wrong ...

... be back in a few ...

Hey, I haven't had any in weeks. I'm celebrating ...

Weeks? Really? Seems like just yesterday...

 

[Chu Gai]

I'm built like Arnold Schwartzenegger (circa 1980) and hung like Mr.Ed.

You may want to edit that Jerry after reading this which states that Mr. Ed was a female zebra.

 

[Davemcc]

What's so wrong with judging people? Isn't your judgement based on your thoughts and opinion of things? I'm certain you (and I mean "You" as in anyone, not you specifically) don't go around harboring opinions that you believe to be wrong. Of course you don't. You have and hold the opinons you do because to the best of your ability or at least to your satisfaction, have given whatever issue some thought and have formed what you think is a correct assessment. If someone were to say to me, "you think you're always right!" My response would be, "Yeah I do." Why would I have an opinion that I believe to be wrong? That makes no sense. Now I will add this caveat, however, I'm always open to be proven wrong and in fact, welcome it, because I brings to light holes or inaccuaracies in my thought process. I'm not saying that I'll just roll over, nor am I saying that it's your job to convince me, but if it comes down to serious differences, let's really tdig. Maybe I'll end up seeing in your way, maybe not. Perhpas the differences are solely philosphical and that's okay too. But I don't buy into this theory that we're all equal. I know people who live their lives much better than me and who I believe are better than me for it. I'm not afraid to admit that.

What he said...it's like we share a brain.

 

[Davemcc]

OP, you really think drinking beer, smoking, and watching R rated movies is immoral?

If Jesus didn't want people to drink, he wouldn't have turned water into wine, dont'cha think?

And who's more moral than Jesus?

 

[gmichael]

What he said...it's like we share a brain.

Nice set-up, but I'm not swinging.

 

[lsiberian]

I have no problem with someone having a different point of view from mine,that's what makes life interesting but when someone goes on a rant about how morally superior they are to everyone else then I'm sorry I can't just sit back and say nothing. Now you approached the subject of morality with class and without judgment of those who may indulge in those actives that you don't,and for that I thank you. This other guy was trying to be an internet tough guy. Intolerance breeds tyrants look to history and see, Hitler comes to mind. And if good people said and did nothing how many more lives would have been destroyed by this tyrant of intolerance.

Yes but tolerance has it's limits too. Sometimes a man's gotta take a stand. For example I will not tolerate monster cables or bose speakers.

 

[njedpx3]

TOLERANCE and The Serenity Prayer

Yes but tolerance has it's limits too. Sometimes a man's gotta take a stand. For example I will not tolerate monster cables or bose speakers.

***News Flash*** As the poster of the 100 millionth message Isiberian has been awarded the grand prize a pair of 901 speakers, lifestyle 48 system and two Wave radios, plus 500 feet of Monster 400 cable. The only catch is that Isiberian has to write a PR announcement and promote Bose and Monster. Now that is a test of TOLERANCE

Now for the seriousness -- The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr


Peace,

Forest Man

 

[lsiberian]

***News Flash*** As the poster of the 100 millionth message Isiberian has been awarded the grand prize a pair of 901 speakers, lifestyle 48 system and two Wave radios, plus 500 feet of Monster 400 cable. The only catch is that Isiberian has to write a PR announcement and promote Bose and Monster. Now that is a test of TOLERANCE

Now for the seriousness -- The Serenity Prayer

God grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change;
courage to change the things I can;
and wisdom to know the difference.

Living one day at a time;
Enjoying one moment at a time;
Accepting hardships as the pathway to peace;
Taking, as He did, this sinful world
as it is, not as I would have it;
Trusting that He will make all things right
if I surrender to His Will;
That I may be reasonably happy in this life
and supremely happy with Him
Forever in the next.
Amen.

--Reinhold Niebuhr


Peace,

Forest Man

It's a good thing I'm not Isiberian.

 

[Nemo128]

In reponse to OP:

Yes.

Moving on now.

 

[itschris]

Reading through all this, I believe this breaks question of morality splits down two different roads. A religious one and one that's more about expected ways of conducting yourself. The religious side is complicated... for some anyway. I have a couple of fiends who are very religious and doing things, or more importanly not dioing things, is just the way it is. I have tremendous respect for them. I do believe that most things are black and white. The "grey" that exists is self created to allow us to justify, rationalize, or otherwise allow us to continue to think and do what we want even though often times, deep down, we know we're wrong or shouldn't be doing or thinking that.

For me, looking at this as the "second" road as I put it means not just trying, but actualling managing to live a good and decent life, and doing the things we know we need to do and either avoiding or moderating the things we know we should not. I try to give when I can. Each Christmas we pick a couple of families and try to make their Christmas special and we do it anonymously. Me and a couple of guys at the office participate in a program I sorda made up called "A Hero's Lunch" where we anonymously pay for a soldier's meal when we're out at lunch. We have the base nearby and a couple of military annex locations so there's always soldiers out and about near our business center.

It's doing the right thing when it's easier not to, doing good things and making the right choices when no one is watching.

A lot of people do "immoral" things because they're in a bad position in life. Often times though, it's their own bad choices and behaviors that created the pattern for them to find themselves there in the first place. My brother and I are a good example. Same upbringing in a very modest home. I'm fairly successful with a wonderful family, my brother rarely had a steady job, endedup divorced and thinks the world owes him a living. The difference between him and I was that he wanted things easy. Even as kids, when we saw something fantastic like a cool car or fancy pool que, whatever it was, I thought about how hard I would have to work to attain it, my brother thought that he was owed it. He's made his choices, as have I, and we could not be in more different places right now. He doesn't steal and has never been in trouble with the law, but his life is not what it should be and he struggles constantly. At the same time, his struggles are a direct result of his selfishness and laziness and poor attitude that fed upon itself.

For me I read about the kid who kills another for a pair of shoes and it's justified by saying, "he's got nothing in life, no hope, etc" But living next door to him is another kid who's just as poor, cold, and probably hungry, who understands that he can't have fancy shoes. Maybe someday he will, but for now, it's likely bare feet for the timebeing. Those two are not equal, not in my eyes.

Sorry. Long post here. Wait... I have to step off my soap box.

 

[Alex2507]

... I have to step off my soap box.

This is the part I'm thanking you for.

No, I actually read your novella and liked it.

 

[Adam]

No, I actually read your novella and liked it.

So, that's what a backhanded compliment looks like.

Well, or "novella" is another word that Alex used wrong.

 

[JerryLove]

I try to give when I can. Each Christmas we pick a couple of families and try to make their Christmas special and we do it anonymously.

A good example of perspective.

Are you being good because you are helping the needy?

Or are you being bad because you are enabling them in their needyness? Would they "fix" their behaviors if not for people like you making it possible for them not to?

On a third line: Is it good to deprive a family member of something to give to a stranger? Obviously neither you nor I are giving away our stuff to the point that there's no one left worse off than us (as evidenced by our internet access); so what are we really doing?

*I* think you are doing good: but I'm just pointing out that it's not as clear as most people would want it to be.

 

[Adam]

Or are you being bad because you are enabling them in their needyness? Would they "fix" their behaviors if not for people like you making it possible for them not to?

Not everyone finds themselves in a state of need because of a pattern of bad decisions. Sometimes, stuff just happens.

 

[itschris]

A good example of perspective.

Are you being good because you are helping the needy?

Or are you being bad because you are enabling them in their needyness? Would they "fix" their behaviors if not for people like you making it possible for them not to?

On a third line: Is it good to deprive a family member of something to give to a stranger? Obviously neither you nor I are giving away our stuff to the point that there's no one left worse off than us (as evidenced by our internet access); so what are we really doing?

*I* think you are doing good: but I'm just pointing out that it's not as clear as most people would want it to be.

Valid points. On one hand I guess I'd say yes, that I may give a little less to my own family because we do spend about $1,500 to $2,000 between the families we pick and the other giving we do. Hell, I just bought $50 worth of moving blankets to take to the humane society so the dogs don't have to sleep on the cold concrete. I mean, I'm not saying that it's a huge burden or that I'm not getting my daughter the laptop she wants and needs for school so I can buy a Nitendo for a needy family, but I think if you have to give up a little, espeically when you have enough already, it's not a bad thing. It's puts things into perspective.

The charity stuff I do, is well thought out. I won't give to anyone looking for a handout. We have a small network of friends, business associates, and other relationships who know people who need help... really need it. For exmple, in one family, the husband was hurt badly in a training exercise over in the Middle East. They have a young daughter who's autistic and needs special care and schooling to help her along. The mother just lost her job when the company she worked for let go almost a third of their staff. She'd only been there a little over a year and a large part of the layoff was based on seniority. I don't know her, but someone in our little network does and knows her well. She's not complaining, she's doing all she can. She could use a break. So, we're going to help out. She doesn't know anything about it and she doesn't need to know who, how, or where it came from. She just needs to know that someone cares and is willing to give a helping hand, not just a hand out.

 

[jamie2112]

I go every year with my kids and feed people on Thanksgiving and Christmas,not because I want to but because I HAVE to.If everyone would do something unselfishly for another human being then this would be a much better place to live. I also have donated gifts on the holidays because my kids are taken care of but many others are not.I like to give and don't think like its taking away from my family.That is another stupid point tried to be made.I am wasting my time here.