Is it me or are Emotivas prices getting a little high?

[nogaro]

The Toyota Porsche analogy doesn't make any sense because we're comparing things that cost the same and perform the same functions.

I already made my point and I did make an apples to apples comparison. Your focused only on processor vs processor as far as I can tell, in which case you may have missed the point of what i said above and I addressed XT32 vs XT whereas you're only focused on XT32.

I believe the analogy is quite apt -do Toyotas and Porsches not perform the same functions? I don't think it makes sense to compare processors to receivers, especially when a processor from the same company (Onkyo) costs way more than the receiver that you're using for comparison. If you're saying all processors are over-priced to you, then that's fine. To single out a processor from 1 company and compare it to a receiver, but not do the same thing for other processors is unfair in my view. If you're comparing it another processor, you've yet to tell me which one.

Same thing for XT32 vs XT. Would you say a Denon or Marantz or Onkyo product with XT32 is overpriced compared a product with XT
?

I agree that these things may have no value to you and many consumers. However, the market price difference for such products indicates demand to support that price.

 

[ahblaza]

Sorry Adam that I brought up the Panny BDT 500, well no I'm not, I don't think you can beat it for everything it does and does well to boot, at the under $200 price tag it's a bargain, I've seen it for less.
Alex, you mentioned SMSL T-amps, I think in this thread , but anyway can these little chip amps be rigged to drive a pair of passive BSs directly since they have a volume pot? Thanks my man. Adam, now I'm a jerk huh, I bet the next time I hear from you there will be a 500 in your sig
Jeff

 

[Grador]

I believe the analogy is quite apt -do Toyotas and Porsches not perform the same functions? I don't think it makes sense to compare processors to receivers, especially when a processor from the same company (Onkyo) costs way more than the receiver that you're using for comparison. If you're saying all processors are over-priced to you, then that's fine. To single out a processor from 1 company and compare it to a receiver, but not do the same thing for other processors is unfair in my view. If you're comparing it another processor, you've yet to tell me which one.

Same thing for XT32 vs XT. Would you say a Denon or Marantz or Onkyo product with XT32 is overpriced compared a product with XT
?

I agree that these things may have no value to you and many consumers. However, the market price difference for such products indicates demand to support that price.

I really think you need to re-read his posts because you and I got totally different things out of what fuzz was saying.

 

[PENG]

It was $1499 until last week!
Are you surprised at a $1999 pre/pro or a $1999 pre/pro from Emotiva?

From Emo.. I wouldn't be, if it stayed at around 1499, sold a tons of them, got some good user reviews with few bug/reliable complaints, then increase the price for the XMC-2.

I agree, they could've gone with a better chip for the flagship. But, the implementation of the chip is as important. I haven't really seen much music recorded at 32-bits, but I'm sure that will change in the next few years.

Good to know we agree on something. By the way it is not the 24 vs 32 bit I referred to , it is more to do with the general specs such as S/N, THD+N, Dynamic range etc. I am sure competent designers/engineers can implement the overall DAC scheme well enough that any specs differences between mid to high end DACs will not become audible, but for just literally a few dollars more they could have completely eliminated one potential talking point. You just watch, some of those silly audiophiles (not me) will talk about exactly that as though it is a big deal. In that regard, Oppo is the smartest.., for $1,299, lots of people, including me, thought the 105 is one of the best available/affordable media player today.

 

[nogaro]

From Emo.. I wouldn't be, if it stayed at around 1499, sold a tons of them, got some good user reviews with few bug/reliable complaints, then increase the price for the XMC-2.
Good to know we agree on something. By the way it is not the 24 vs 32 bit I referred to , it is more to do with the general specs such as S/N, THD+N, Dynamic range etc. I am sure competent designers/engineers can implement the overall DAC scheme well enough that any specs differences between mid to high end DACs will not become audible, but for just literally a few dollars more they could have completely eliminated one potential talking point. You just watch, some of those silly audiophiles (not me) will talk about exactly that as though it is a big deal. In that regard, Oppo is the smartest.., for $1,299, lots of people, including me, thought the 105 is one of the best available/affordable media player today.

Was there something we disagreed on? You're probably referring to my other posts on the XMC, but I don't believe I've really made any claims to be agreed or disagreed with, really. I just felt Fuzz wasn't giving the XMC a fair shot. To me, that was a little surprising coming from him. But, maybe, like Grador said I misunderstood what Fuzz was saying. Unfortunately, I still don't understand. And, frankly, I don't really have a vested interest in one brand or another to spend my Saturday evening trying to sort it out . If the XMC1 is overpriced, they just won't sell enough and will have to discount it. Won't be the first time that's happened in the audio world!

 

[PENG]

I believe the analogy is quite apt -do Toyotas and Porsches not perform the same functions? I don't think it makes sense to compare processors to receivers, especially when a processor from the same company (Onkyo) costs way more than the receiver that you're using for comparison. If you're saying all processors are over-priced to you, then that's fine. To single out a processor from 1 company and compare it to a receiver, but not do the same thing for other processors is unfair in my view. If you're comparing it another processor, you've yet to tell me which one.

Same thing for XT32 vs XT. Would you say a Denon or Marantz or Onkyo product with XT32 is overpriced compared a product with XT
?

I agree that these things may have no value to you and many consumers. However, the market price difference for such products indicates demand to support that price.

As he said, you seemed to be focussing on prepros only. I am sure many people, not just fuzz, would see the latest model AVRs from D&M, Onkyo, Yamaha and Anthem as better alternatives in the 2K price range. For example, if someone picks up a 4520 for just under 2K or the 3009 for 1.2K street price, add a XPA-3, they would have a dream class HT system in terms of features and power and those models pretty much have reasonably proven realiability records. With the Emo, one has to add a 7 channel power amp to have a complete system, and may have to live with the growing pain/bugs for a while, may be not but the odds seem higher.

Even on the prepro side, for those who don't care for XT32, there are THX ultra 2 certified such as the DHC 40.2 (not that it matters to anyone) Integra prepros that cost well below 2K, or for those who don't care about THX certification, there are also great deals for the highly regarded Marantz AV7005. Hope you feel better now that I've named two for you.

 

[PENG]

Was there something we disagreed on? You're probably referring to my other posts on the XMC,

Not really, I have not read through the whole thread yet but I may. I am looking for a something that could play my digital stuff via standard USB for mass storage, not the Asynchronous type that why I started paying attention to prepro in case there may be affordable alternatives on that side of things.

 

[fuzz092888]

Sorry Adam that I brought up the Panny BDT 500, well no I'm not, I don't think you can beat it for everything it does and does well to boot, at the under $200 price tag it's a bargain, I've seen it for less.
Alex, you mentioned SMSL T-amps, I think in this thread , but anyway can these little chip amps be rigged to drive a pair of passive BSs directly since they have a volume pot? Thanks my man. Adam, now I'm a jerk huh, I bet the next time I hear from you there will be a 500 in your sig
Jeff

Well I'm using a headphone jack to RCA to mine which is driving my desktop speakers. Is that what you mean? If so then yes

 

[nogaro]

As he said, you seemed to be focussing on prepros only. I am sure many people, not just fuzz, would see the latest model AVRs from D&M, Onkyo, Yamaha and Anthem as better alternatives in the 2K price range. For example, if someone picks up a 4520 for just under 2K or the 3009 for 1.2K street price, add a XPA-3, they would have a dream class HT system in terms of features and power and those models pretty much have reasonably proven realiability records. With the Emo, one has to add a 7 channel power amp to have a complete system, and may have to live with the growing pain/bugs for a while, may be not but the odds seem higher.

Even on the prepro side, for those who don't care for XT32, there are THX ultra 2 certified such as the DHC 40.2 (not that it matters to anyone) Integra prepros that cost well below 2K, or for those who don't care about THX certification, there are also great deals for the highly regarded Marantz AV7005. Hope you feel better now that I've named two for you.

Damn, and I was almost outta here Ok, fine, one last post and then it's time for some beer!

Yes, I was focusing on pre-pros, for the simple reason that the subject of discussion is one. if we want to broaden the discussion to AVR vs pre-pro in general, that's a whole different story.

Just so i understand you, would you say those AVRs are better than the Onkyo PR-SC5509 or the Marantz 8801 as well? Or just better than the XMC? Would you say the 3009 is better than the 5009 at msrp of $2900? With this approach, it is a shock that any new models or processors get sold at all.

I always agreed that if you don't care about RCS the XMC is not the model to consider. The more features you're willing to give up, the lower in price you can go - that's not a unique concept. To say that you dont care for XT32 is one thing, to say a product without XT32 is better is quite another. I'm not saying everyone should get the XMC or even a pre-pro for that matter. I'm not even saying the XMC will be better than any other receiver or pre-pro - I'd like to wait at least until it is released. What I am saying is if you do want a pre-pro with the features that the XMC offers, then the XMC shouldn't be discounted - at least not just yet. I just think it is an unfair comparison when you discount product category and features. If it turns out, after it is released, that it doesn't command the price it's listed at, it will get discounted. I have yet to see an AV product not be discounted, especially when it comes to processors. Isn't $1200 a discounted price on the 3009?

 

[bogrod]

The UMC 200 has been a solid offering for years now. From what I have heard from owners it's a very solid component. So I don't think their rep has been harmed long term in that regard.

Really? I've read that owners had to go through the mill with unrealized or extremely slow promises of firmware fixes.