Is it me or are Emotivas prices getting a little high?

[Adam]

Darien, quick suggestion for a dual HDMI 3D BD player with excellent two channel analog outs is the Panasonic DMP-BDT500, great player for the money.
Amazon.com: Panasonic DMP-BDT500 Integrated Wi-Fi 3D Blu-ray DVD Player: Electronics
Great player........

Jeff, you jerk. I was all happy with my player...but now I'm thinking about getting that one.

 

[sharkman]

Same here. Getting an XMC for $900 was stretching my budget. Now I think it's out of my reach. I still haven't watched Dredd because I was waiting for the damn XMC to come out so I could watch it in 3D. Now it's not going to be out for another 6 months and it's $300 more?!?!? Guess I'll just look for a 3D BD player with dual outs and call it a day. Though I'm not totally happy with my UMC 1 either. Lame.

It's funny how few comments there are on the Emotiva situation in the Emotiva thread!

In reading your comment, I was puzzled since I thought the XMC increased to $2000? I guess you must have one of their discount cards, lucky you. What turns me off of Emotiva processors, notwithstanding the overly buggy launches, is the 3-4 year old technology that they want us to pay top dollar for when it's also missing features that have become common with mid level receivers. They are now going to be around the same price as the integra, Marantz and Onkyo models. And those models have much better track records with bugs.

Like I said earlier, Emotiva should have stayed far, far away from processors. It has cost them much in reputation, revenue and over all good will, and since they've bungled managing Sherbourn to the point of failure, there's not a lot of room left for error.

 

[Irvrobinson]

Then let me ask you this:
Discount that vinyl tech invented by Mr. Edison for a moment, or that CD invented by a digital geek.
Imagine you live in a garage next door to the Hollywood Bowl.
Your source is a nice array of Nueman U-87 mics fed directly to your garage.
Now you have a speaker you are trying to get to replicate that sound. Is it the signal that matters or the sound?
The signal is the DNA, but what you are trying to do is get those transducers to replicate that sound.
If you had a "magical" box that could take that pure DNA and feed it to the speaker to trick it into replicating the desired sound, would you use it?
I understand the need to keep that DNA pure, but ultimately, the trick is to take those drivers, and electromechanically get them to induce the same sound waves you would hear in that H. Bowl seat.
Sorry to take this thread so far off track. I apologize.

What you're describing is the typical situation for monitoring a recording session. Mic feeds to a mixer, a mixer to amps, amps to speakers. The magical box you're postulating sounds like the digital signal processing in DEQX or Audyssey. The sound is essentially pre-distorted to correct for speaker deficiencies (DEQX) or room deficiencies (Audyssey). Either one is a laser scalpel compared to the dull axe of a tone control.

 

[big2bird]

The sound is essentially pre-distorted to correct for speaker deficiencies (DEQX) or room deficiencies (Audyssey). Either one is a laser scalpel compared to the dull axe of a tone control.

I cannot argue that point.

 

[Cos]

I was seriously considering investing in the XMC-1 @ 1499.00, so much so I was going to buy an emotive discount card off of ebay. Then they had the $500 price increase, so for that money will stay with Integra/Marantz at that price point.

 

[fuzz092888]

I was seriously considering investing in the XMC-1 @ 1499.00, so much so I was going to buy an emotive discount card off of ebay. Then they had the $500 price increase, so for that money will stay with Integra/Marantz at that price point.

I'd never pay that much for an Emo pre/pro. There are too many good or better options out there in that price range IMO.

 

[psbfan9]

If it's true that they, Emotiva, are bringing 'some' production back to the states, then good for them. The thing that really put me off, was a bad sales guy. His response to every question was, "Just buy it. We have a fair return policy".
Plus, I had heard few rumbling's of poor customer service after the sale and also, as mentioned before, they seem to release buggy products. That to my mind meant poor quality control.

 

[ImcLoud]

I have two of their processors, a umc1 and the umc200, both work fine, my 200 came with no remote, but besides that is works like any other pro /avr would... I would never spend $2000 on the xmc, that is silly, you can get a really nice avr for that and use it as an AVR, actually you can get a really nice AVR for $500 that has preouts and I don't think you will ever see a difference between the two...
With HT, I am just not very critical, get yourself some decent warm accurate speakers, a good avr, maybe an amp for your front 3 if you listen loud or have a large room, and about twice as much sub as you think you would need... For music I am a lot more critical, I wan't a simple system, direct audio path as possible... I feel like you can critically listen to music, but With a movie, I just don't see where the extra effort and money pay off...

 

[jinjuku]

If it's true that they, Emotiva, are bringing 'some' production back to the states, then good for them. The thing that really put me off, was a bad sales guy. His response to every question was, "Just buy it. We have a fair return policy".
Plus, I had heard few rumbling's of poor customer service after the sale and also, as mentioned before, they seem to release buggy products. That to my mind meant poor quality control.

Both Denon and Onkyo have had to release firmware updates to fix just after release bug fixes. The one for my Denon was ~100MB.

 

[big2bird]

With HT, I am just not very critical, get yourself some decent warm accurate speakers, a good avr, maybe an amp for your front 3 if you listen loud or have a large room, and about twice as much sub as you think you would need... For music I am a lot more critical, I wan't a simple system, direct audio path as possible... I feel like you can critically listen to music, but With a movie, I just don't see where the extra effort and money pay off...

Yep. With HT, it just isn't there to begin with.

 

[nogaro]

I'd never pay that much for an Emo pre/pro. There are too many good or better options out there in that price range IMO.

By "better", I assume you mean features as it would be hard to comment on performance before it is released, especially since we don't know the full details of the Dirac implementation. Which pre/pro would you consider better in the 2k price range?

 

[fuzz092888]

By "better", I assume you mean features as it would be hard to comment on performance before it is released, especially since we don't know the full details of the Dirac implementation. Which pre/pro would you consider better in the 2k price range?

IMHO, any competently designed pre/pro will sound more similar than different. In the 2K price range I've had good luck with Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo and wouldn't go near an Emo based on some of the customer service type stuff I've heard about them. To be fair, I've heard many many good things about them as well, but I see no reason to deal with them when I could deal with Amazon or a person face to face and still get a great pre/pro and a guarantee of zero return or exchange issues.

As for Dirac, I've tried it and in my own system in my own room it didn't do better than Audyssey XT32, in fact it did a little worse.

 

[nogaro]

IMHO, any competently designed pre/pro will sound more similar than different. In the 2K price range I've had good luck with Denon, Marantz, and Onkyo and wouldn't go near an Emo based on some of the customer service type stuff I've heard about them. To be fair, I've heard many many good things about them as well, but I see no reason to deal with them when I could deal with Amazon or a person face to face and still get a great pre/pro and a guarantee of zero return or exchange issues.

As for Dirac, I've tried it and in my own system in my own room it didn't do better than Audyssey XT32, in fact it did a little worse.

I will be considering the XMC1 when it comes out, but I haven't started looking at the competition yet. I would qualify for the $1199 price, so the XMC might end up being the best option for me. I quickly looked at the 3 brands you mentioned and didn' see a Marantz with Xt32 anywhere near 2k. I couldn't even find a processor from Denon, only receivers ( I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong place). Onkyo has something for $2500 - it might certainly be worth the extra cost.
As far as Customer service and QC goes, I have a few Emotiva products (including 2 Umc1) and have had only 1 issue so far ( not UMC1), which was handled swiftly and very well by Emotiva. I think a few vocal, unhappy customers drown out the majority of silent, happy ones. I've seen quite a bit of complaints about Onkyo too. So, I wouldn't discount the XMC based on that.

 

[fuzz092888]

I will be considering the XMC1 when it comes out, but I haven't started looking at the competition yet. I would qualify for the $1199 price, so the XMC might end up being the best option for me. I quickly looked at the 3 brands you mentioned and didn' see a Marantz with Xt32 anywhere near 2k. I couldn't even find a processor from Denon, only receivers ( I'm sure I'm looking in the wrong place). Onkyo has something for $2500 - it might certainly be worth the extra cost.
As far as Customer service and QC goes, I have a few Emotiva products (including 2 Umc1) and have had only 1 issue so far ( not UMC1), which was handled swiftly and very well by Emotiva. I think a few vocal, unhappy customers drown out the majority of silent, happy ones. I've seen quite a bit of complaints about Onkyo too. So, I wouldn't discount the XMC based on that.

First, I don't consider RC essential and I personally don't notice a difference between XT32 and XT. Second, any receiver with a full set of preouts can be used as a pre/pro equally as well as the emo pre pro, plus you get an amp section if you should ever need it. Third I have an Onkyo (3009) and don't see the Emo doing a better job than it does.

I don't discount the emo based on the negative reviews alone. I discount it based on what I can get from other companies for similar money and less potential for headache.

My point is that emo has priced themselves into an extremely competitive price range and aren't offering anything IMO that blows them away or even tops them which would make a non emo customer like me even begin to consider them.

 

[nogaro]

First, I don't consider RC essential and I personally don't notice a difference between XT32 and XT. Second, any receiver with a full set of preouts can be used as a pre/pro equally as well as the emo pre pro, plus you get an amp section if you should ever need it. Third I have an Onkyo (3009) and don't see the Emo doing a better job than it does.

I don't discount the emo based on the negative reviews alone. I discount it based on what I can get from other companies for similar money and less potential for headache.

My point is that emo has priced themselves into an extremely competitive price range and aren't offering anything IMO that blows them away or even tops them which would make a non emo customer like me even begin to consider them.

That is quite different from saying X is better than Y, I think. If you don't want RC, then the XMC1 isn't anything to consider at all as a good chunk of its price comes from that. You're discounting one of its big selling points because you don't want it and comparing it to another product that doesn't offer that feature. Emotiva has a much, much cheaper processor that doesn't have Dirac. As far as the potential for headache, you might very well be right about that, but it might be more prudent to wait until it is released to make that call. To be clear, I have no idea whether the XMC wil be worth it's price or not. But, I do think that RC, analog section, headphone out(late night) are important features to some people.

 

[fuzz092888]

That is quite different from saying X is better than Y, I think.

I don't see it that way, but I take a holistic view of my purchases.

If you don't want RC, then the XMC1 isn't anything to consider at all as a good chunk of its price comes from that. You're discounting one of its big selling points because you don't want it and comparing it to another product that doesn't offer that feature.

Which isn't true at all since a good chunk of any receiver or processor is put into the room correction be it Audyssey, Trinnov, or an in house version. I'm not discounting any products based on their RC and I'm not saying I don't want it. I'm saying I don't care about it......in anything because It doesn't provide meaningful, measurable improvements for me in my room. A big chunk of many receivers and processors comes from licensing stuff.

Emotiva has a much, much cheaper processor that doesn't have Dirac.

Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo all offer lower priced options as well.

As far as the potential for headache, you might very well be right about that, but it might be more prudent to wait until it is released to make that call. To be clear, I have no idea whether the XMC wil be worth it's price or not. But, I do think that RC, analog section, headphone out(late night) are important features to some people.

Almost all of which are features offered in other similarly priced receivers or processors. For instance, my Onkyo 3009 has all of those and more, including Audyssey XT32 and I paid $1200 for it brand new shipped. I'm not Onkyo fanboy, nor am I an ardent Emotiva detractor, but IMHO their processors aren't anything that would make someone switch to them. To me, they're a product that allows you to stay within the Emotiva brand, rather than a serious competitor in the processor/receiver arena, especially in that price range.

 

[nogaro]

Darn you and your multi-quoted response - it's too much for my ipad to handle!
BTW, I haven't quite figured out how to do that yet - as will be evident below.

I don't see it that way, but I take a holistic view of my purchases.

As do a lot of people. "Better", then, just comes down to individual priorities. Market pricing on the other hand comes down to comparable features. A Toyota may certainly be better than a Porsche to many people, but I doubt it will command the same market price.


Which isn't true at all since a good chunk of any receiver or processor is put into the room correction be it Audyssey, Trinnov, or an in house version. I'm not discounting any products based on their RC and I'm not saying I don't want it. I'm saying I don't care about it......in anything because It doesn't provide meaningful, measurable improvements for me in my room. A big chunk of many receivers and processors comes from licensing stuff.

Of course, I never said anything to the contrary. To me, it appeared that you were comparing the XMC to other cheaper receivers because RC wasn't important to you and saying those were better options. I just don't think that's an apples to apples comparison. If you weren't, then, I don't see what it is that you were comparing it to? The only processor I see from Onkyo is $2500 and the Marantz with XT32 is $3600. Are there others that I'm missing? I do see the 7701, but that doesn't have XT32 (I know it's not as important to you, but I'm trying to make an equal market-price comparison. The 8801 is more than double the 7701 and all of that doesn't come from the added 4 channels of support, I'm sure). If we throw receivers into the mix, then, the Onkyo and Marantz processors are over-priced too.

Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo all offer lower priced options as well.

Of course. I never said there was no competition to the Emotiva processors. I'm still trying to figure out where your "better" statement is coming from. Again, keeping in mind the Toyota/Porsche analogy above.


Almost all of which are features offered in other similarly priced receivers or processors. For instance, my Onkyo 3009 has all of those and more, including Audyssey XT32 and I paid $1200 for it brand new shipped. I'm not Onkyo fanboy, nor am I an ardent Emotiva detractor, but IMHO their processors aren't anything that would make someone switch to them. To me, they're a product that allows you to stay within the Emotiva brand, rather than a serious competitor in the processor/receiver arena, especially in that price range.

Well, I'm pretty sure people that have Emotiva processors today started out buying other products and switched to Emotiva. I'm sure there are people that have switched away from Emotiva too. Yes, the XMC is playing in a very different market, and it may end up not being competitive. I can't comment on the 3009's performance, but would you say the PR-SC5509 from Onkyo is way over-priced given that one can buy the 3009 for $1200?

Some of my responses are mixed in with the quote from you. I need to figure out the darn mult-quote

 

[PENG]

Marantz, Denon, Pioneer, Yamaha, and Onkyo all offer lower priced options as well.



Almost all of which are features offered in other similarly priced receivers or processors. For instance, my Onkyo 3009 has all of those and more, including Audyssey XT32 and I paid $1200 for it brand new shipped. I'm not Onkyo fanboy, nor am I an ardent Emotiva detractor, but IMHO their processors aren't anything that would make someone switch to them. To me, they're a product that allows you to stay within the Emotiva brand, rather than a serious competitor in the processor/receiver arena, especially in that price range.

I was wondering what you guys were talking about so I decided to pay the Emo website a visit and I couldn't believe you were talking about a $1999.00 prepro!!

I thought it was $1499 for some reason. For almost 2K I also have to question how it can better the Onkyo 3009 or even the 1009 (is there such a model?). I say that because for example I know Onkyo typically would put something like a TI 1796 DAC in their prepro and/or higher end AVRs yet this Emo has the lower TI model DSD 1793.

Something like the Denon AVR-4311 or even the 4520 would seem to be better deals in terms of features and specs. For example the 4520 has the TI 1795 DAC, similar specs as the 1796 but 32 bit instead of 24. I think the Onkyo 5009 has the same 32 bit one while the 3009 most likely has the 1796, either one is a step up from the Emo's 1795. I know that's just one minor factor in the overall scheme of things that influence the final sound quality but it just begs the question why they wouldn't go with the best or second best TI (BB) DAC for a small incremental cost, relative to a 2K list price for this flagship prepro. I think we need to see more details before we can understand better why the apparent high price point.

 

[nogaro]

I was wondering what you guys were talking about so I decided to pay the Emo website a visit and I couldn't believe you were talking about a $1999.00 prepro!!

I thought it was $1499 for some reason. For almost 2K I also have to question how it can better the Onkyo 3009 or even the 1009 (is there such a model?). I say that because for example I know Onkyo typically would put something like a TI 1796 DAC in their prepro and/or higher end AVRs yet this Emo has the lower TI model DSD 1793.

Something like the Denon AVR-4311 or even the 4520 would seem to be better deals in terms of features and specs. For example the 4520 has the TI 1795 DAC, similar specs as the 1796 but 32 bit instead of 24. I think the Onkyo 5009 has the same 32 bit one while the 3009 most likely has the 1796, either one is a step up from the Emo's 1795. I know that's just one minor factor in the overall scheme of things that influence the final sound quality but it just begs the question why they wouldn't go with the best or second best TI (BB) DAC for a small incremental cost, relative to a 2K list price for this flagship prepro. I think we need to see more details before we can understand better why the apparent high price point.

It was $1499 until last week!
Are you surprised at a $1999 pre/pro or a $1999 pre/pro from Emotiva?
I agree, they could've gone with a better chip for the flagship. But, the implementation of the chip is as important. I haven't really seen much music recorded at 32-bits, but I'm sure that will change in the next few years.
Yes, I agree, we do need more details. I don't think all the details are out yet (possibly they're still evolving along with the price!).

 

[fuzz092888]

The Toyota Porsche analogy doesn't make any sense because we're comparing things that cost the same and perform the same functions.

I already made my point and I did make an apples to apples comparison. Your focused only on processor vs processor as far as I can tell, in which case you may have missed the point of what i said above and I addressed XT32 vs XT whereas you're only focused on XT32.