Is Audioholics Brainwashing Us?

[miklorsmith]

Not brainwashing, catering

I'd say AH is serving dishes suitable to the palates of its members, appropriately. No one place will be everything to everyone. For instance, if I were a vinylhead, I'd spend my time better elsewhere.

Similarly with two-channel specialization, tube gear, hi-efficiency kit, anything to do with audibility of wires, and tweaks. This is not bad, it is just how it is and must be. There are plenty of other places to explore the more esoteric elements of the art/science.

 

[Audioholics]

Not everything in a mass market store is crap.

I'd have to agree. It's silly to generalize like that.

 

[furrycute]

Many things are mass market/mainstream for a reason. They achieve a certain price/performance ratio that satisfy a lot of people.

For the few who have extraordinary tastes, AND extraordinary depth of pocket, there is always the audiophile line.



Personally, even though I lust after those Krell monoblocks, I absolutely abhor snake oil peddlers selling $1,000 RCA cables, $10,000 powercords, etc.

The maker of Virtual Dyanmics powercords once even claimed that he got his speed of light powercord design from Jesus Christ in a dream. Now that his powercords are officially sanctioned by God.

Give me a break. As if God has nothing better to do than to send some wacked out con artist another money making scheme.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Personally, even though I lust after those Krell monoblocks, I absolutely abhor snake oil peddlers selling $1,000 RCA cables, $10,000 powercords, etc.

Look to the bottom of the final page:

http://www.krellonline.com/pdf/KRELL_FLB.pdf

And the retail price? (again, at the bottom of the page):

http://www.hifi-topsalon.ru/krell.htm

Considering the consensus at Audioholics about cable contribution to sound quality, I'd have to say: Bargain! I'll have two!

Regards

 

[furrycute]

Oh don't tempt me with those monoblocks! I might just decide to sell my house and get a pair of those.


I had no idea that Krell also sells cables. There is no way in the world I am going to pay $2,000 for a pair of speaker cables.


Then again, are the Krell monoblocks really worth $30,000, most definitely not. I'll look for a pair on the used market.

 

[Buckle-meister]

That Evolution one amplifier sure is nice looking though!

I noticed that they also have a SACD player. Given the information in Mtrycrafts link (seporate thread):

http://www.stereophile.com//features/374/index.html

...it seems like even Krell pander to the gullible.

Regards

 

[jaxvon]

$30k for a pair? Screw that, I want a pair of Master Reference Monblocks, they're only $125k. Of course, you'll need to get a forklift for your room. At like 700lbs each, you're going to need it.

 

[Audioholics]

See - you're all brainwashed.

 

[msmith855]

I'd have to say in my time here in Audioholics that many of the things promoted and reviewed are often a lot more realistic than some of the things you would find in other sources. For example, I have subscribed to Home Theater magazine for over a year now, and much of their advertising and subsequent reviews are very high end and expensive gear. Lexicon, Rotel, Martin Logan, etc. This is the kinda stuff where unless you have money to blow, or you have been totally brainwashed you probably don't really NEED it to have an excellent system.

Pioneer, Yamaha and HK (at least certain lines) can all be found in mainstream stores and if you'll notice they are three of the most often recommended receivers in here. Not all mainstream stuff is bad, just like not all exotic stuff is worth the money. What's presented in here "seems" to be honest opinions and reviews and actually helped me greatly when getting my new receiver (which was a Yamaha, although not from the line sold at Best Buy... although there's only subtle differences).

 

[Buckle-meister]

For example, I have subscribed to Home Theater magazine for over a year now, and much of their advertising and subsequent reviews are very high end and expensive gear. Lexicon, Rotel...

My first amp was the Rotel integrated RA-935BX. Whilst it was a nice little amp, it was by no stretch of the imagination a very high end or expensive one.

Regards

 

[jeffsg4mac]

jeffsg4mac:

You summed up my point exactly. Your ignorance is what I am talking about. Not everything in a mass market store is crap. You just assume it, like most people around here.

JC

Johnny, apparently you have no sense of humor. I never said everything in mass market stores was crap. I said I though polks sound like crap. I have followed Polk since day one, and they have always sounded like crap no matter which store they came from. Most speakers in chain stores are crap, they have gotten better over the years but until recently it was all pretty much crap. Best Buy is starting to carry some decent stuff in their new home theater stores, but prior I have never seen a decent speaker line ever carried at a Best buy or Circuit City.

 

[msmith855]

I've never heard one first hand so I'll take your word for it... all I do know is if you look up on Froogle their cheapest AV receiver is $800, and doesn't seem to have half as much as my Yamaha 1500....

My first amp was the Rotel integrated RA-935BX. Whilst it was a nice little amp, it was by no stretch of the imagination a very high end or expensive one.

Regards

 

[miklorsmith]

Or. . .

On the other hand, how much experience do you all have with stuff more expensive than you can afford? It's convenient to convince yourself it's "not worth the money anyway" so that it's OK that you'll never have it. Someone who has auditioned $30k monoblocks next to a Denon receiver with speakers likely to be paired with Krells could reasonably make comparisons, including ones reflecting badly on the Krells. To compare without a fair listening comparison or consideration of the target market renders any argument unfounded.

I auditioned some $45k Genesis speakers, nowhere near the top of their line, in their factory - a crappy acoustic environment. They were driven by 50-watt tube monoblocks to the tune of $5k for the pair driving the mids and tweets and about 1000 wpc per for the bass modules. There IS a huge difference and if I had the dough and somewhere to put them, I'd sign up today. These things put the music in a living space that is indescribable. The treble and mids push your skin and pressurize the air as good bass does, which is the first time I'd ever felt that.

To say "man that stuff is nice, but I don't need it" is logical and thoughtful. To say "It's not worth it" is entirely subjective. For you? Sure. But, projecting value onto someone else in a different space with superior means? Their Krell might be your pioneer, financially speaking.

I read a review of some $250k monoblocks in Stereophile. The author said his first reaction was "how ridiculous". Then, trying to put on the shoes of a prospective customer, he thought he'd rather spend that money on an amplifier than a car. I wholly agree.

In case it's not obvious, it rubs me wrong when people project their values onto others. Sweeping statements about this or that being stupid or unworthy are meaningless. Market forces dictate these products have value in the marketplace.

This site is populated by like-minded individuals. That's great and a big reason attendees stay. But, don't think the thought represented on this site is representative of the population at large. Bose outsells everything by a huge margin and there is a vibrant market on the fringe. Try to recogize your own biases.

 

[msmith855]

That's a valid point, and I didn't mean to over-generalize... if I ever hit the lottery one of the first stores I hit would be to get some Martin-Logan speakers... I only meant that like in any market there will always be "some" products which sel based on the name and a fancy marketing campaign... but of course there are others that earn their reputation...

On the other hand, how much experience do you all have with stuff more expensive than you can afford? It's convenient to convince yourself it's "not worth the money anyway" so that it's OK that you'll never have it. Someone who has auditioned $30k monoblocks next to a Denon receiver with speakers likely to be paired with Krells could reasonably make comparisons, including ones reflecting badly on the Krells. To compare without a fair listening comparison or consideration of the target market renders any argument unfounded.

I auditioned some $45k Genesis speakers, nowhere near the top of their line, in their factory - a crappy acoustic environment. They were driven by 50-watt tube monoblocks to the tune of $5k for the pair driving the mids and tweets and about 1000 wpc per for the bass modules. There IS a huge difference and if I had the dough and somewhere to put them, I'd sign up today. These things put the music in a living space that is indescribable. The treble and mids push your skin and pressurize the air as good bass does, which is the first time I'd ever felt that.

To say "man that stuff is nice, but I don't need it" is logical and thoughtful. To say "It's not worth it" is entirely subjective. For you? Sure. But, projecting value onto someone else in a different space with superior means? Their Krell might be your pioneer, financially speaking.

I read a review of some $250k monoblocks in Stereophile. The author said his first reaction was "how ridiculous". Then, trying to put on the shoes of a prospective customer, he thought he'd rather spend that money on an amplifier than a car. I wholly agree.

In case it's not obvious, it rubs me wrong when people project their values onto others. Sweeping statements about this or that being stupid or unworthy are meaningless. Market forces dictate these products have value in the marketplace.

This site is populated by like-minded individuals. That's great and a big reason attendees stay. But, don't think the thought represented on this site is representative of the population at large. Bose outsells everything by a huge margin and there is a vibrant market on the fringe. Try to recogize your own biases.

 

[Buckle-meister]

miklorsmith, why on earth were you auditioning a pair of speakers you had no intension of buying? Sounds like a glutton for punishment to me . For example, I am well aware that there is way way better kit out there than I myself have, but I'd never want to hear it unless I was actually considering getting it. Otherwise, after hearing it, I'd feel so demoralized about my own system.

Sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.

Regards

 

[RMK!]

Or maybe

miklorsmith, why on earth were you auditioning a pair of speakers you had no intension of buying? Sounds like a glutton for punishment to me . For example, I am well aware that there is way way better kit out there than I myself have, but I'd never want to hear it unless I was actually considering getting it. Otherwise, after hearing it, I'd feel so demoralized about my own system.

Sometimes, ignorance truly is bliss.

Regards

Just maybe you will find that your "kit" sounds pretty darn good considering the price delta. That is very satisfying.

 

[miklorsmith]

Agreed!

I totally agree with all responses, above. Ignorance being bliss isn't an empty phrase. On the other hand, it does lend perspective. And yes, I'm very happy with my rig.

I auditioned the speakers because Gary Koh, the owner of Genesis who wrote the Black CD paper I was touting a while back, contacted me. Turns out the US Genesis factory is here in Seattle and he invited me for an audition. Me and one friend got to spend a couple hours with Mr. Koh, who loves music and is lucky enough to surround himself with it for a living. He is a true gentleman and generous to a fault. It was quite ear-opening.

Previous comments weren't aimed at anyone in particular. There is generally a lot of sniping on audio pages in particular singling out other people, companies, technologies, and ideas without the person knowing much about them or having first-hand experience. Scientific insights about how something shouldn't make sense is logical, speculating about this or that in general terms isn't inherently bad, it's the baseless attacks that bother me.

Sorry to ramble. I'm not trying to regulate the world.

 

[Buckle-meister]

Just maybe you will find that your "kit" sounds pretty darn good considering the price delta. That is very satisfying.

Oh I agree; I already think my system sounds pretty darn good , irrespective of the price delta.

Regards

 

[Tsunamii]

my 2 cents, I was looking for a new SUB was going to buy a brand named started to read here and was turned onto SVS. It is amazing and I would have never known about them if it was not for audioholics.. For what it is worth...

 

[Shallowmander]

Brainwashing

Absolutely not! After all this time I just happen to beleive everything they write.