Is Audioholics Brainwashing Us?

[mulester7]

The fact of the matter is that there's a world of great gear that you'll never see in the mainstream press. I've bought internet direct myself, and I've found some great deals on hi performance gear that way. My sytem(s) were purchased from brick and mortar and internet vendors.

.....that's my view also, Rob....to purchase directly from the manufacturer is the current wave of this internet and actually has been for years....hooray, says my Hip National Bank/Wallet for eliminating a stop or two in the middle....don't worry, George will find them a wonderful and enriching job flipping burgers....(oops!, shouldn'ta said that!!)....(oh well, too late).....

 

[miklorsmith]

Denoument

No worries Rob. I have no problems with your personal politics. You're a smart and considered person and my retaliation was not directed at YOU, but at two of the thousand posts, as you correctly observed.

You're probably detecting a theme in my later posts. Oversimplification of ideas and making sweeping statements about products or even classes of products runs rampant here. I know YOU understand the reality of the camps, but posts like the ones I took exception to can start new folks on a certain track. I seek to have them make up their own minds. Presenting both sides as accurately as possible is important for those people much more than Mtry or WmAx or me, all of whom haven't changed an idea in a decade or more.

If I spent any time over at AA, I'd present more of this side of the story. Many of those people are cable and tweako aficionados. If you wonder why cable companies stay in business, check that place out. And, they do MUCH more traffic than here. There's good info too but you have to filter it and I imagine a newbie would drown over there trying to make heads or tails.

The central idea is to make up your own mind. I have my own way for doing that, as do others here. Those with strong opinions sometimes have solid backing and sometimes it's more like "doesn't make sense to me and Knowitall2005 said it's dumb". THESE people are the reason I write these counter-opinions. I don't want them to get sucked into a "nothing matters" vortex unless their ears confirm it.

If Mtry wants to think that, great. He's done exactly what I would recommend anybody do - go out and figure it out for yourself. But Newbie "A" shouldn't listen to Mtry's espousals and just follow along. Rather, if that person agrees, they should read what Mtry has read and make their own determinations. Two people reading the same research will come away with different ideas about what is written.

So, is AH brainwashing us? Only if you listen to the opinions of others and don't figure it out for yourself. Is AH brainwashing me? Not a chance. Is AH brainwashing you? That's for you to decide.

 

[cornelius]

This site has guys like WmAX and Mtrycrafts who won't believe it's raining unless you show 'em on doppler radar...

It's not brainwashing me, but I see it happening to some of the other forum members on this site.

 

[gene]

IF you have to ask the question, then its too late. You're brainwashed

 

[Buckle-meister]

The central idea is to make up your own mind.

I agree. I've seen new folk post questions like 'Thinking of buying Denon xyz. Anybody think it's worth the $$$ asking price?'. But when they get a response like 'Yeah, I've one and it's great', they reply with something along the lines of 'Right then, I'm off to buy one right now'.

There is nothing wrong with seeking opinions about a prospective product; it helps us all make a considered decision as to whether or not to go out and buy it. But to blindly buy a product based only upon the opinion, albeit well intentioned, of a completely unknown person is, to me, not only slightly risky, but slightly silly.

Two people reading the same research will come away with different ideas about what is written.

They shouldn't do. If the paper was well written, the author should leave no doubt as to the paper's findings. The people reading it may argue with it's conclusions, but that is a different matter altogether.

So, is AH brainwashing us? Only if you listen to the opinions of others and don't figure it out for yourself.

I agree, but believe it would be better stated as "So, is AH brainwashing us? Only if you listen to the opinions of others and blindly accept them." I say this because sometimes it is unrealistic to expect people to go figure everything out for themselves. Sometimes we have to trust. To make educated guesses.

Take myself for example. I have an inquisitive mind leaning towards the technical side of things. In many of my postings, WmAx has given significant input. Am I foolish for blindly accepting his replies? Perhaps, but it is impractical to suggest that I will go off, study and learn technical knowledge to a comparable depth. When he replies to my questions, I still question what he writes. Do I understand it? If I don't, can he explain it in laymans terms please? Now that I understand it, does it seem reasonable? logical? If so, then now is time for me to make a judgement. Do I accept it? Up until now; yes.

Regards

 

[mulester7]

IF you have to ask the question, then its too late. You're brainwashed

.....Gene, raise your right hand, and have you ever endorsed a product to the readership here, that you didn't feel was very good quality for the price?....have you ever chosen NOT to do a review on some products once you tested them and found them to not measure up?.....

.....(boys, lean forward and stare him right in the eye should he respond)....(I know, I know, that's a cheap tactic, but it works)....(he'll probably take off his glasses and we'll go fuzzy).....

 

[Mike McGann]

Hi. This is a great thread.

As someone with a bit of professional gear reviewing experience, there are a ton of good points on here. Both the objective and subjective are crucial in reviews — maybe more so in audio gear than video.

Of course, chocolatey mid-range might be code for "crap. the lead vocals are muted and muddy, but I can't say that or Acme Speaker will pull their ads." Or worse: a reviewer who can't hear and there are some. Or worse: a box job, when a reviewer reviews something without opening it.

Any number of times, I've reviewed speakers that measured lousy but sounded pretty good. Or vice versa. Secondary harmonics? Room interaction (no room is perfectly neutral)? Some projectors perform well, but misbehave and are impossible to keep in peak shape. Others offer a bit less performance, but are rock solid and just work with no fuss.

There's a ton of BS out there — even in the magazine world, and I suppose I should write a piece some day on "how to read a gear review." The truth is always there — if you know how to look for it. Of course, mags have gone too high end in a lot of cases, in part because they're sold on it by the companies and in part (some, but not all of) the writers and editors become jaded and lose touch with the value of simple, more mainstream products that are easier to use and offer 75-80 percent of the performance.

Another interesting fact: a surprising number of people can't hear well enough to tell the difference between pretty good audio and really good audio.

Finally, as I'm sure virtually everyone on here knows: great product badly set up or mixed with the wrong gear will often perform worse than cheaper stuff that is well matched and properly set up.

Anyhow, my 2 cents. I stumbled upon this site while looking for a spellcheck module for my Baseball Web forum — and then decided to try to find the service codes for my new Mits DLP TV — and started reading threads. A good site...without too many people drinking the "magic cable" Kool-Aid. Kudos.

 

[jaxvon]

Welcome Mike! We can always use more professional insight around here. Maybe anothe staff member at Audioholics...?

 

[Audioholics]

Thanks for the compliments, Mike. We do our best and the folks here tend to keep us honest.

 

[mtrycrafts]

I stumbled upon this site while looking for a spellcheck module for my Baseball Web forum — and then decided to try to find the service codes for my new Mits DLP TV — and started reading threads. A good site...without too many people drinking the "magic cable" Kool-Aid. Kudos.

WOW, what a circuitous rout to find us, LOL

Hope you will stick around some and help ot hwere you can

 

[Mike McGann]

Will do, if I can be any help. But there seems to be a lot of solid people on here.

 

[gene]

Mike;

Regarding writing an article on "how to read reviews". I suggest reading this one as a start which was written by the late Anthony Federici:

Reviewing Home Theater Reviews

 

[Johnny Canuck]

Well this looks like a good thread i started some time ago and have enjoyed reading all the responses.

I really like what Mike said:

Most people can't hear well enough to distinguish between good gear and really good gear.

I really am starting to believe this. My local snooty high end shop has a system set up that consists of a tube amp, turntable, basic speakers. I asked the guy what it was worth. He said $70,000!!!! It sounded OK, but nothing special at all. I am not kidding you. Small bookshelf like speakers, no bass whatsoever, and a turntable. Well maybe I don't hear well enough. And yes these guys are snooty. I ask them if they have ever heard of Axiom, Hsu, or SVS and they seriously walk away and say No. They are liars. They know damn well about internet products but refuse to talk about them. Or, even worse, don't keep up with other products and have their heads in the sand.

The name of the store in Victoria, BC, Canada is Sound Hounds. I will never step foot in there again. Worst service I have ever recieved in my life buying ANYTHING. Salesmen don't come near you unless you are in their clicky group. Snobs. Jerks. and Liars. I laugh at them talking to customers about fancy banana plugs and cables. Flogging Rotel, B & W, Paradigm and nothing else even counts. But I am an "internet guy" they have labelled me. They fear me and guys like me because I am educated from reading here and do my research. I went to buy a used amp from them last week to match the NAD 2200 and for some reason they didn't want to sell it to me. next day went to get it and they said it was gone. A friend went in a day later and it miraculously re appeared!!

Anyways..this was a good thread and by no means did I mean to criticize AH or Clint or Gene. I think I was starting to listen to the idiots at Sound Hounds that I was being led down the path of gullability from internet reading but the truth is, AH and other forums are here to help us make educated decisions based on hundreds of peoples opinions, not just a few jerks in a stuck up store.

 

[miklorsmith]

Odds . . .

I'd bet most folks could differentiate between systems if set up side-by-side. In order to make the same conclusions, experience is needed. To gain experience, true interest and investigation is required. Show of hands - how many of us have spent considerable time with (any) tube gear? Why or why not? This is just one example.

I'd guess most truly motivated audioheads with some time under their belts could pick out good from great without too much trouble. The problem is one of exposure and all its necessary ingredients.

 

[Bikrtrsh]

Holy Crap! I'm Brainwashed?!?!

This is my first post after a couple weeks of browsing and a couple days after joining. I've apparently been brainwashed.

I've ordered the Mordaunt Short Avant speakers reccomended in an Audioholics article. I've also ordered the Yamaha RX_V2500 and S2500 DVD player from internet sales companies. Is there a cure for this brainwashing? Am I destined now to a never ending quest for bigger and badder HT gear?

About 7 months ago I was one of the average folks trudging through life totally ignorant of this audiophile world, in search of the perfect Bose HTIB for me. So many choices! Which 'LifeStyle' system was for me?

Now look at me. I'm a wreck. I've crammed my feeble mind so full of new and exciting audiophile-isms that my head may explode.

Here's the bottom line. My personal opinion was and is that most of the stuff I've read at Audioholics seemed extremely objective. I have confidence in my choice of receiver and DVD player but I took a leap of faith on the loudspeakers. (I haven't even seen anything in the forum here about 'em.) I guess it's just that I never, ever had the feeling that I was being 'sold' here. I felt like I could make a reasonable decision from both the objective as well as the subjective data disclosed in the articles that I read.

I haven't had the pleasure of being able to audition the majority of the gear mentioned here. I'm pretty much limited to a few chain stores (and they carry basically the same stuff.) So when it came down to spending the bucks, I had a choice of two options. Go with the advice of an 18 year old kid whose only concern was how "hard it hits" or go with what I could glean from this and a couple of other sites. I chose Audioholics as much for this forum as for the online mag itself. Thanx!

Bikr.

 

[Doug Plumb]

Johnny Canuck, audioholics is not brainwashing you. Your government is.

-Doug Plumb (also Canadian)

 

[gene]

Johnny Canuck, audioholics is not brainwashing you. Your government is.

I couldn't agree with you more

 

[Audioholics]

No more politics please... everybody has an opinion. Gene actually meant to agree regarding his own government, not Canada's.

 

[Buckle-meister]

No more politics please... everybody has an opinion.

That's no reason to suppress them.

Regards

 

[malvado78]

Is it open game in the steam vent????