Interconnects and power cord info

[imnofool]

Probably not, but a failure of education, leading to lack of reasoning and logical thought.

So the chap has probably read a lot of pseudo nonsensical science and is so confused will believe anything, no matter how daft. Then convinces himself that nonsensical spouting by ignorant charlatans is audio truth.

It is identical reasoning to the dangerous misleading garbage spouted by antivaxxers. So their world gets turned upside down.

It is no accident that this chaps moniker is the absolute 180 degree opposite of the truth, since in fact, he fulfils every criterion of the fool.

 

[imnofool]

Your vicious attack deserves no response from me.

 

[Pogre]

He says in response... lol

 

[Pogre]

Your vicious attack deserves no response from me.

It's not personal fwiw. This is a science based forum that debunks a lot of the pseudoscientific claims that abound in this hobby and one of the absolute worst scams are the claims of these high dollar cable manufacturers. There is no science to back those claims, no way to measure any differences that matter, and the few times I've seen a dbt performed to test those claims the differences folks attest to hearing suddenly disappear when sighted bias is taken out of the equation. Folks can't do any better than chance at picking one over another.

These myths continue to propagate tho and it gets really annoying and somewhat disheartening to keep seeing it happening. Some of us get a little passionate about it.

 

[imnofool]

I stand by my experiment with these power cords and interconnects and my own ears. I said I found mixed results and still mean it especially with repeated attempts on my own equipment. I feel there is too much disagreement so I will just end this matter with you and allow you your own opinion and I have mine such as it is and will leave it at that. Also I was offended and should have been. I approached this forum for advice and got kicked...I won't tolerate such especially with what I thought would be civil discussion on an issue.

 

[Trell]

You still don’t get it: You’re entitled to your own opinions but not your own facts.

Spout nonsense and you’ll have push back, same as for anti-vaxxers in the Covid-thread.

Take it as a learning experience

 

[ryanosaur]

I stand by my experiment with these power cords and interconnects and my own ears. I said I found mixed results and still mean it especially with repeated attempts on my own equipment. I feel there is too much disagreement so I will just end this matter with you and allow you your own opinion and I have mine such as it is and will leave it at that. Also I was offended and should have been. I approached this forum for advice and got kicked...I won't tolerate such especially with what I thought would be civil discussion on an issue.

Don't be mad.
Be better.
Have somebody come and switch cables while you wear a blindfold and are unable to see what is being done, or invest in a switching device which you can have somebody else operate, again while you are blindfolded.
The simple truth is that no matter how superior you feel yourself to be, you are falling victim to the same psychological issues that scientists work diligently to remove from the testing equation.
In the meantime, all you are offering is conjecture. The mere fact you report "mixed results" should be enough for anybody so inclined to determine that their testing protocol is suspect.

As I said earlier, it is your system, your Ducats. Enjoy. I meant that. You do you.

However, if you insist on arguing that cables have non-measurable qualities that somehow synergystically improve Sound Quality when actual scientists and engineers say otherwise and can back it up with actual data...
Well, your conjecture doesn't stand a chance.

Cheers.

 

[highfigh]

I stand by my experiment with these power cords and interconnects and my own ears. I said I found mixed results and still mean it especially with repeated attempts on my own equipment. I feel there is too much disagreement so I will just end this matter with you and allow you your own opinion and I have mine such as it is and will leave it at that. Also I was offended and should have been. I approached this forum for advice and got kicked...I won't tolerate such especially with what I thought would be civil discussion on an issue.

It's not the ears that "hear" a difference when comparing- our minds make us believe what we are inclined to believe- humans aren't objective. Look into the Harman International speaker testing where some people actually preferred the sound when the grill color had been changed. Dr Floyd Toole developed and conducted the tests.

The comment about double blind testing is correct- as long as someone knows which is being used, if/when switching is occurring (or not) or has been told what would be heard, the test is invalid. Preconceived notions are extremely difficult to ignore.

 

[Pogre]

I stand by my experiment with these power cords and interconnects and my own ears. I said I found mixed results and still mean it especially with repeated attempts on my own equipment. I feel there is too much disagreement so I will just end this matter with you and allow you your own opinion and I have mine such as it is and will leave it at that. Also I was offended and should have been. I approached this forum for advice and got kicked...I won't tolerate such especially with what I thought would be civil discussion on an issue.

I understand, it woulda ruffled my feathers a little too. I think your post combined with your id looked suspiciously like someone who made an account to intentionally poke the beehive to TLS Guy. We get that here sometimes...

The fact remains tho, there's no science behind it and no way to to measure or detect what's being claimed. It's also been shown that unless strict protocols like a dbt are followed for listening tests any conclusions drawn are demonstrably unreliable and any supposed improvements or differences are completely dependant on sighted testing.

A proper dbt is a real pain to set up and I don't blame folks for not doing it, but the conditions matter (level matching, defeating eq or room correction, speaker position, etc.) and sighted bias is real and demonstrable. Magic cables are in no way demonstrable. Here's an example of a listening test with protocols to level the playing field for a legitimate comparison. Note the method and results.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

 

[highfigh]

A proper dbt is a real pain to set up and I don't blame folks for not doing it, but the conditions matter (level matching, defeating eq or room correction, speaker position, etc.) and sighted bias is real and demonstrable. Magic cables are in no way demonstrable. Here's an example of a listening test with protocols to level the playing field for a legitimate comparison. Note the method and results.

Matrix HiFi --> Blind testing high end full equipments

Some kind of randomizer with tracking of the results of switching would work- Or, have someone in a remote location switch between different pieces using the 12V triggers from an AVR or smart outlets, like the Eveready type I have- works on the network and from outside, with two way communication, so I can see if they're on or off. That way, nobody who's involved in the testing at the site will know.

 

[Pogre]

Some kind of randomizer with tracking of the results of switching would work- Or, have someone in a remote location switch between different pieces using the 12V triggers from an AVR or smart outlets, like the Eveready type I have- works on the network and from outside, with two way communication, so I can see if they're on or off. That way, nobody who's involved in the testing at the site will know.

Yeah I s'pose careful level matching wouldn't really be necessary to test cables if using the same gear and you don't touch the volume, but the blind part and quick switching is a must. Another party remotely switching would work for that.

 

[highfigh]

Yeah I s'pose careful level matching wouldn't really be necessary to test cables if using the same gear and you don't touch the volume, but the blind part and quick switching is a must. Another party remotely switching would work for that.

No level matching? But, but, but, BATTERIES!

 

[-Jim-]

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SITTING DOWN AND JUST ENJOYING YOUR RIG: PRICELESS!!!

Wow - Total Voodoo!

Unbelievable that this stuff exists in today's audiophile world!

Gents,

Don't you think we should be a little more tolerant of contrary views? Not for the crazy OEMs who seem to want to prey on the uniformed (like in ryanosaur's post), but for those who have been swayed by their snake oil pitches.

Equating their mindset to those on the anti-vaxxers wagon, won't help you convince them of a different perspective, it will just aggravate them and get them to dig in their heels. Personally I come here to stop the noise, even for a while, coming from the terrible Covid situation worldwide. I hope we can stay away from those references and stay on task to the Thread subject matter. We are here to post about one of the best hobbies in the world.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[Pogre]

Don't you think we should be a little more tolerant of contrary views? Not for the crazy OEMs who seem to want to prey on the uniformed (like in ryanosaur's post), but for those who have been swayed by their snake oil pitches.

Equating their mindset to those on the anti-vaxxers wagon, won't help you convince them of a different perspective, it will just aggravate them and get them to dig in their heels. Personally I come here to stop the noise, even for a while, coming from the terrible Covid situation worldwide. I hope we can stay away from those references and stay on task to the Thread subject matter. We are here to post about one of the best hobbies in the world.

There is a knee jerk tendency here to jump on people over these topics and I agree that it does more to trigger defensive mode than convince anyone. We could do a better job of explaining the reality of these claims and their dependence on our biases.

It's a dirty trick really, and not the fault of folks who haven't dug in on electrical science and psychoacoustics. Sound perception is more than just what we hear, and these charlatans know it. The whole industry really is a con that takes advantage of some innate human shortcomings when it comes to perception. No better than the crook on the corner taking money from marks playing 3 card monty.

 

[lovinthehd]

I stand by my experiment with these power cords and interconnects and my own ears. I said I found mixed results and still mean it especially with repeated attempts on my own equipment. I feel there is too much disagreement so I will just end this matter with you and allow you your own opinion and I have mine such as it is and will leave it at that. Also I was offended and should have been. I approached this forum for advice and got kicked...I won't tolerate such especially with what I thought would be civil discussion on an issue.

Did you read much of what the forum has on this subject before you posted, tho? I think you're fooling yourself, but go right ahead if you want to throw money at relatively meaningless things (like anything from Furutech, Audioquest/Fraudioquest, Nordost, Synergistic Research, and the various others catering to the wire foolishness as well as other pseudo-scientific audio products). Your methodology of comparison is, as was pointed out, inadequate.

 

[ryanosaur]

Don't you think we should be a little more tolerant of contrary views? Not for the crazy OEMs who seem to want to prey on the uniformed (like in ryanosaur's post), but for those who have been swayed by their snake oil pitches.

Agreed.
There is a tolerance point that quickly tips, and I get it. Where one person posting is pretty innocuous, those of us who have spent a few years here watching the same question pop up repeatedly forget this is new to this person.
Of course, once they double down rather than engage with humility... It's open season!

*giggles sheepishly

Of course, I kid.

(or do i... )

 

[davidscott]

Did you read much of what the forum has on this subject before you posted, tho? I think you're fooling yourself, but go right ahead if you want to throw money at relatively meaningless things (like anything from Furutech, Audioquest/Fraudioquest, Nordost, Synergistic Research, and the various others catering to the wire foolishness as well as other pseudo-scientific audio products). Your methodology of comparison is, as was pointed out, inadequate.

Don't forget Morrow. Man you should read some of the testimonials on their website.

 

[lovinthehd]

Don't forget Morrow. Man you should read some of the testimonials on their website.

Morrow is just one of the "various others". Mr Morrow is a bit nutty from what I've delved into in his products and postings....

 

[ryanosaur]

Don't forget Morrow. Man you should read some of the testimonials on their website.

You'd almost think they give a discount for a good testimonial: 10% off your next dose of the KoolAid if you submit a 5***** review!

Strange, this breaks the rule: the first one is always free.

Of course, that means that the product actually delivers on the promise of pure audio bliss. Usually it's just a prat... and I'm not talking about pace, rhythm and timing.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Think about this, why would any equipment vendor put substandard power cables on their equipment? Does that make any kind of business sense?

But, but, they are looking for the last cent to squeeze out to lower the equipment price.