Inside pictures of an $8000 Mcintosh MX135 pre/pro.

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Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
stratman said:
The bottom line is implementation, the weakest link in the chain is your Achille's heel. It'll bring everything down.
My sentiments exactly.:)
 
yettitheman

yettitheman

Audioholic General
Seth=L said:
My understanding of processors-

The CPU of an audio/video processor is similar to a simple server computer system. It uses RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computer). It has millions of transistors in to one semi-conductive chip. It calculates and delegates tasks, that is all it does. What dictates the performance outside that?, all the other parts, just like a computer. If a computer has a very good processor, but is poorly integrated (cheaply integrated), has to little RAM, cheap video or video card, or inadequate power you get a low performance system.

McIntosh does large amounts of research (research costs money) and attempts to make a very well integrated product.

That is all I have got.
Actually, it depends. Modern personal computers use mainly CISC (complex instruction set) as oppsoed to RISC. Back in the days of the Motorola 68XXX in the old Macintosh (Apple Computer) days, they typically used a RISC setup until the end of the Power PC era, when of course they moved to Intel.

Mainly the strong points of any processor are that it needs to handle the data thrown at it, and it needs to process it with as few errors as possible. Computer processors themselves are a different breed than most audio I/C's in that they are designed to predict when and what to draw from system memory, and if the processor fails to acquire the correct area of memory, then it has to clear the stack and re-try the calculation. It equates to the CPU being correct, but at the expense of time (given nanoseconds or more.)

An audio processor I'm very sure is set up a much different way. One way such that it's source of data to be processed is true and correct in value and buffer, and that the processor is designed for continuous frame processing. The key to a audio processor is simplicity, in it's basic form. Making an audio chip too complicated can lead to many features and advancements, but possibly at the cost of a company dealing with a very steep learning curve to utilize a chip that is more complex, the addition of not being able to use certain features efficiently or effectively, or the added cost of a product that may do the same or less than a comparable model of another brand.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
yettitheman said:
Actually, it depends. Modern personal computers use mainly CISC (complex instruction set) as oppsoed to RISC. Back in the days of the Motorola 68XXX in the old Macintosh (Apple Computer) days, they typically used a RISC setup until the end of the Power PC era, when of course they moved to Intel.

Mainly the strong points of any processor are that it needs to handle the data thrown at it, and it needs to process it with as few errors as possible. Computer processors themselves are a different breed than most audio I/C's in that they are designed to predict when and what to draw from system memory, and if the processor fails to acquire the correct area of memory, then it has to clear the stack and re-try the calculation. It equates to the CPU being correct, but at the expense of time (given nanoseconds or more.)

An audio processor I'm very sure is set up a much different way. One way such that it's source of data to be processed is true and correct in value and buffer, and that the processor is designed for continuous frame processing. The key to a audio processor is simplicity, in it's basic form. Making an audio chip too complicated can lead to many features and advancements, but possibly at the cost of a company dealing with a very steep learning curve to utilize a chip that is more complex, the addition of not being able to use certain features efficiently or effectively, or the added cost of a product that may do the same or less than a comparable model of another brand.
I understand completely, and you only further the point. Thank you Alex, you are much more knowledgeable about processors than I.:D
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
A whole lotta insight into what actually goes into making a mcintosh can be seen in this link,take the tour & see,tawnos seems focused on this yamaha chip but there's alot more going on here than off the shelf parts.

Check out the old lady who's been hand winding their transformers for decades:D

http://www.stereopal.com/McIntoshIntro.htm
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
highfihoney said:
A whole lotta insight into what actually goes into making a mcintosh can be seen in this link,take the tour & see,tawnos seems focused on this yamaha chip but there's alot more going on here than off the shelf parts.

Check out the old lady who's been hand winding their transformers for decades:D

http://www.stereopal.com/McIntoshIntro.htm
Ha, I have seen more advanced manufacturing assembly lines from the 80's, remember video disk?:D They use a lot of older but very proven techniques in the manufacturing process. If they keep there employees happy, they will put in quality work and produce the nearest to flawless product.:)

The Transformer stuff is awesome, and so is the hot silver solder.:D I wish it had video demos of the whole place, like a tour.
 
M

MichaelJHuman

Audioholic
I believe this thread was started over at avsforum as well. Most likely by the same person.

Didn't that one get closed?
 
zildjian

zildjian

Audioholic Chief
Seth=L said:
The Transformer stuff is awesome, and so is the hot silver solder.:D I wish it had video demos of the whole place, like a tour.
check w/ your local Mc dealer; mine gave me a McIntosh Promo DVD that was a brief (maybe 15 minutes) video about the company & factory highlights. I don't have the DVD anymore, else I'd send it to you.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
I don't care of AVS forum, they have way to much going on over there.:) It probably was the same person.:rolleyes:
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
Read post # 52.

MichaelJHuman said:
I believe this thread was started over at avsforum as well. Most likely by the same person.

Didn't that one get closed?
The thread at avs got closed but it didnt start over there,read post # 52 in this thread for a brief history of this troll,you can also look at his multiple usernames on these sites & see the pattern of disruptive pointless thread hijacking & troll posting to further some sort of agenda he obviously has.

"Tawnos" & "neverwinter2" are the same guy over at avs ,infact both usernames are active at the same time.
 
M

MichaelJHuman

Audioholic
I see everyone knows about the situation then.

It's not clear the OP is a troll. But I find it hard to understand paying that kind of money, and then asking whether it was worth it.
 
billy p

billy p

Audioholic Ninja
Well

Tawnos has been the ire of many of the Audiophiles on this forum alone. He has bashed the denon 5910 the toshiba hd player and who knows what else. I frankly recall the denon 5910 bashing, Clint asked him if he owned one of the units in question, his reply was "no but my friends do". I wonder if they know he's talking crap about their equipment behind their backs? Then again, I would bet no because he doesn't have any!!. LOL
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
MichaelJHuman said:
I see everyone knows about the situation then.

It's not clear the OP is a troll. But I find it hard to understand paying that kind of money, and then asking whether it was worth it.
He has started numerous threads about why hi-fi isn't worth the money. Expensive speakers, and other audio equipment apparently isn't valuable.:rolleyes: I agree that some stuff is sketchy, but he seems bent to convince the world that because he thinks they are ripping everyone off we should just sell all the high end stuff, or maybe he just wants us to buy Bose.:D

I bet he finds pictures of all this equipment on the net somewhere.:D
 
highfihoney

highfihoney

Audioholic Samurai
MichaelJHuman said:
I see everyone knows about the situation then.

It's not clear the OP is a troll. But I find it hard to understand paying that kind of money, and then asking whether it was worth it.
Its hard to say what his rationality is or was,I watched what was going on over at avs & here so i did a google search on the word Tawnos then referenced it with forums,weather or not its the same guy thats on avs & here on AH every forum i looked at that had a member with the username tawnos, that name had a huge trail of disruptive posts,locked down threads & other arguements along the same lines as this mess.

This dude has alot of tech info at his disposal,if you read any of his posts over at avs under either of his usernames before his latest round of trollling you'll see that he has more than a basic understanding of audio & that these bits of tech info that he uses to start fights with were well within his reach before he bought anything,no matter the brand he ends up as an unhappy buyer but mysteriously he cant find the info he uses to start fights with before he buy's anything.

Its funny that he ripped apart denon in threads on this site because he is currently praising all that is denon over at avs,once agian a troll exposed.
 
Seth=L

Seth=L

Audioholic Overlord
highfihoney said:
you'll see that he has more than a basic understanding of audio & that these bits of tech info that he uses to start fights with were well within his reach before he bought anything,no matter the brand he ends up as an unhappy buyer but mysteriously he cant find the info he uses to start fights with before he buy's anything.

Its funny that he ripped apart denon in threads on this site because he is currently praising all that is denon over at avs,once agian a troll exposed.
I couldn't find pictures, so either he has good resources, like an AV shop that allows him to take pictures of the inside of stuff, who knows. Or maybe he really buys all this stuff just to bash it. Tawnos is Bill Gates.:D Get a life will you Bill?!

He obviously isn't to bright if he thinks a processor makes or breaks the SQ of a processor or receiver. IT IS A PROCESSOR, IT MAKES CALCULATIONS! That is all the sucker does. If it does them with minimal error it will command the device flawlessly, regardless of it's configuration, that doesn't make the Yamaha sound the same though. You can't judge a component based on one part of it.

Take cars for example, again.:D You have 2 cars, they both have the same engine. The first one is a basic package, the second one has a turbo, a better transmission, and a more sophisticated computer.

Same story with McIntosh, it is all about integration dude, get over your sorry pathetic boring life and stop cluttering the forum with BS.
 
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