I'm furious and now poor. Please help!!

[dem beats]

I have a serious issue with my current HT set up. I have the Energy RC 50's for frotns RC 10's in the rear and the RC center. Beautiful. I like the sound more than anything I have heard.... That is if I could hear them at home. It keeps going into safe mode!

Here is the situation, I am using star Wars Episode 1 for set up.

I am using an integra 5.6 to run it. It gets fairly loud(at +18 more than I would ever want to hear for more than a couple seconds) durring talking scenes or music or even durring some nice actions scenes. But I had to change my crossover to 200hz to be able to push the amp up to +18 and every time I watch the pod racing scene it goes into safe mode. Even at -8 or so, and to be honest the speakers sound a bit quiet and I had to set the fronts on small. Righ then one of the pods blows up and Annikan looses control and goes into a spin it cuts into safe mode. Now if the volume is way down I can hear all channels let loose for the explosion, but it's so quiet I'm definately not "there". I will be test running each channel on it's on through the scene. if that works then combinations of speakers. I am so incredibly furious. The speakers are not even touching their full range in fact they sound like they are just warming up when i bring the volume up and to nueter them by setting the crossover so high seams stupid I paid for quality speakers and I want to push them.

My thought was the receiver is rated at 6ohms, but the speakers rate 4 ohms minimum. The sales rep said this shouldn't be happening, and the ohm rating doesn't matter. I thought maybe a short in my wires, but then one of the speakers wouldn't sound right when running the test run to auto set up the speakers right???? I am used to car audio and I remember what happened when I pushed an amp that wasn't made to run a 4 ohm sub was used and you tried to run it hard.

Does anyone have any ideas other than the receiver is too weak to drive the speakers to the capacity intended. I don't think it's right that I should have to cut the crossover so high and can't even run the received at 0. I'm not even over pushing it. I can't even hit -10 if the crossover is set to 100hz.

The sound is crystal clear even when it's just running at max level and the fronts are being driven. The rep ran my receiver with a set of B&W bookshelfs with some inwalls and an B&W center when I was there, and it went fine. I actualy didn't think untill last night it could be the received stong enough to push it all the time accept the once and a blue moon every 5 channell explosion. I then took a new one home and re ran the scene over and over untill I narrowed down that spot.

I first heard the set up with the least expencive Rotel receiver and it seamed more robust but that could be just due to the fact the frequesy of the crossover was set higher on the integra set up.

Please any help will be verry helpfull. I am mad!!!!

thanks all

 

[markw]

+ 18 db?

I think your expectations are a bit much and your hearing is damaged.

As for car amps, they draw power from what's basically an "unlimited" power supply, but only for a limited time period. It'll supply just so many volt/amps and will do so until it's drained. That means you can put an ungodly drain on a battery, but it's charge will run out that much faster. That's called "Amp/hours".

Less draw, battery lasts longer. Heavy draw, battery dies quicker.

A home receiver, OTOH, has a limited power supply. It can only provide so much current fron those ransformers, caps, and whatnot that changes 120 VAC into whatever DC it requires.

but, if it happens when the xover is set to 100hz and the receiver is running at -10, then ther may be problem with it, but didn't you say the speakers are rated for 4 ohms minimum? Hmmmm... Veddy intelesting...

 

[billy p]

I not sure, I can answer your specific problem. I do think the Energy RC's would do better with a little more power. What's the sound like in 2 channel, do you have the same problem? Here are some measurements on the RC's 70's very close to the 50's you own.

Nice choice in speakers, Billy p

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/energy_rc_70/

 

[dem beats]

I think your expectations are a bit much and your hearing is damaged.

As for car amps, they draw power from what's basically an "unlimited" power supply, but only for a limited time period. It'll supply just so many volt/amps and will do so until it's drained. That means you can put an ungodly drain on a battery, but it's charge will run out that much faster. That's called "Amp/hours".

Less draw, battery lasts longer. Heavy draw, battery dies quicker.

A home receiver, OTOH, has a limited power supply. It can only provide so much current fron those ransformers, caps, and whatnot that changes 120 VAC into whatever DC it requires.

but, if it happens when the xover is set to 100hz and the receiver is running at -10, then ther may be problem with it, but didn't you say the speakers are rated for 4 ohms minimum? Hmmmm... Veddy intelesting...

I should clarify. The literature states 8 is nominal and 4 minimum(I read somewhere it even dips lower I emailed energy for a final word. My crap sony towers were louder on 1/2 the power. I would think I may have hearing damage I have seen many concerts....but a few friends were in the basement and when played at a level low enough to not go into safe mode, voices almost "hard to hear" and the clarity that I heard at higher levels was missing. I will say the second receiver was better I think but maybe it was in my mind, and I had not calibrated and fin tuned the channels for best clarity, I was just troubleshooting this issue. Could this be a speaker or speaker wire issue? I doubt all speakers would have the same short, as they all play equaly resonably loud durring the test portion. I will be running some perfect wire to test if that is playing a part, but wouldn't a short short the system no matter the volume?

 

[dem beats]

I not sure, I can answer your specific problem. I do think the Energy RC's would do better with a little more power. What's the sound like in 2 channel, do you have the same problem? Here are some measurements on the RC's 70's very close to the 50's you own.

Nice choice in speakers, Billy p

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/energy_rc_70/

2 chanel was OK but I didn't have much time to play with it. it will be 90% movies. I had the radio on and It wasn't what I would call "loud" at -10 which I am used to being quite deafining in the other set ups I have seen.

Thanks for the info!

 

[dem beats]

What bugs me here is not that I need deafiningly loud, it's that I can't utilize the speakers full range of sound(which is what sold me on the speakers anyway). I don't think it's right that the amp would just shut down.

It's not right I have to use such a high cross over. I could see just being unsatisfied with the volume if it was under powered but shutting down into safe mode?

 

[markw]

Could this be a speaker or speaker wire issue?

It's not a wire issue. As short is a short at any volume level.

Personally, I think you play it too loud and I don't think that receiver plays well with those speakers. That it seemed to work well with other speakers in the store shoud be a big clue.

 

[dem beats]

It's not a wire issue. As short is a short at any volume level.

Personally, I think you play it too loud and I don't think that receiver plays well with those speakers. That it seemed to work well with other speakers in the store shoud be a big clue.

I don't think you intended this to be a flame, and I hope you don't see what I say as one either.

To be clear, it was called "quiet" by the people in the room at levels when it wasn't shutting down. Voices were not bright as they should be. I only mentioned that it could play at +18 for porpouse of trying to narrow down what the problem might NOT be. I would say normal listening levels were fine durrign non action. So in clarifying, it seams to become "less-loud" durring action scenes. I am trying to say a boom box produced higher SPL. I am in a concrete wall basement with some paneling on the walls, this may be absorbing a lot of noise the room is right about 2,500. 30x7.1x12. I have the rears at about 20 feet into the room from one end. It's not optimal room.

I am trying to find a reason why this receiver is turning itself off and says somethign wrong is happening.

As you said they may not match, why do they not match?

 

[markw]

It was not intended as a flame.

I don't think you intended this to be a flame, and I hope you don't see what I say as one either.

To be clear, it was called "quiet" by the people in the room at levels when it wasn't shutting down. Voices were not bright as they should be. I only mentioned that it could play at +18 for porpouse of trying to narrow down what the problem might NOT be. I would say normal listening levels were fine durrign non action. So in clarifying, it seams to become "less-loud" durring action scenes. I am trying to say a boom box produced higher SPL. I am in a concrete wall basement with some paneling on the walls, this may be absorbing a lot of noise the room is right about 2,500. 30x7.1x12. I have the rears at about 20 feet into the room from one end. It's not optimal room.

I am trying to find a reason why this receiver is turning itself off and says somethign wrong is happening.

As you said they may not match, why do they not match?

but I'm having a problem seeing exactly what you're trying to say. Are they shutting down on peak volume levels? What do you mean by "less loud during action scenes?"

A boombox may play "loud" but I doubt it's "clean".

Those aren't the most efficient spakers I've ever seen and if they drop to and below four ohms , that's a pretty good combination for driving a receiver rated at 6 ohms into overload.

Obviously, I'm of no help to you so I'll make this my last post on this thread.

 

[j_garcia]

Have you calibrated the system? How big is your room?

 

[AVRat]

What are the channel levels set at? The shut down is definetely occuring because the power supply is being overloaded, not due to a wire short. It is weird that you're having issues at -10 volume. Some people say that you can power better speakers with lesser receivers. I think you may be in a situation that shows a flaw in that theory.

 

[ParadigmDawg]

I am not sure "It gets fairly loud(at +18)" tells us anything unless you are saying you have calibrated the system to where +18 means something. If you cal'd to where "0" equals 75db then +18 should make your ears blead in a room the size of yours. My system is properly cal'd and +18 would be unbearable even in my 8000 cubic ft room. When I am feeling crazy I will listen to music at +10 and it is very loud and can stay at that level for hours. For movies I play it at -25 or 20 for normal viewing and 0 if I am showing it off but 0 is actuall just too loud to watch an entire movie.

 

[pikers]

You need the speaker levels calibrated, no question. Further, you need to lower your unrealistic expectations. No doubt you demanded ear-bleeding levels, but had only so much money with which to do that. Good news is, you have good gear, but it needs to be set up/used correctly. Be cool with your dealer and let him help.

 

[dem beats]

Mark,
I was trying to point out to you saying I listen too loud is both a point of view, and my hearing may or may not be fine. You actualy helped me to clarify what I was saying and for that I appreciate it.

What I meant by it becomes "less-loud" is the SPL seams to dip. The overall level of soud has a perceved drop by myself and the people in the room durring scenes where it emploies all channels. It's more than subtle. As in people who don't have a clue about audio said "they sound great but are quiet when the action starts".

I was told 0 would be the receivers referance point of level, anything over that would be pushing it past where it is comfortable. That makes sense to me, what makes no sense is the fact that the receiver is going into safe mode at -8 DB(which is nothing that would show off either the full rage or SPL of the speakers), with the crossover set at a conservitave 200hz. I don't understand why the receiver would feel there is a danger or over worked at a volume lower than its "referance point".

I appologise if I am getting the terminology wrong but to dump such a large sum of money and wait 2 weeks to have something work so poorly has me frantic. This doubled by the fact the rep at the store saying ohm ratings don't matter and wouldn't affect the performance etc etc.

You have all been helpfull, You too Mark. I just didn't see the point in briging up something subjective as how loud I listen to the sound or my hearing. It's hard enough to describe the issue over the net. Please dont' be discouraged from posting.

 

[j_garcia]

Does it have a "night" mode or some other type of attenuation feature that you may have turned on? That may cause those apparent "dips", though that could also be the warning sign that you are saturating the system and/or some protection circuitry is starting to intervene to keep you from damaging speakers - a REAL concern if you are pushing it too hard.

Have you disconnected and reconnected each speaker just to make sure all your connections are correct?

 

[Seth=L]

Here is something. I once connected a new receiver with some speaker wire I had been using with my previous receiver. When the wires were connected I powered the system and it sounded fine. Then I tried to turn it up and the receiver went into protect mode, no distortion before doing so and definitely nowhere close to tapping the receiver's potential. I was frustrated so I disconnect the wires and replaced them, even though the wires looked fine. I tried it again with new wires and it worked perfect.

I used the Yamaha HTR-5890 when this happened, the only thing changed was the speaker wire, which had appeared to be fine and the sound was not distorted or odd sounding. I would at least try changing the wires before giving up.

Good luck

 

[dem beats]

Does it have a "night" mode or some other type of attenuation feature that you may have turned on? That may cause those apparent "dips", though that could also be the warning sign that you are saturating the system and/or some protection circuitry is starting to intervene to keep you from damaging speakers - a REAL concern if you are pushing it too hard.

Have you disconnected and reconnected each speaker just to make sure all your connections are correct?

I have disconnected and reconnected. I doubt it's a wire issue but I am going to try different wire just to rule it out.

I contacted both integra and energy and they said if the wire had a cross or short in it, it wouldn't matter the power the equipment would short/fry.
I am still going to rule it out. I just don't understand how the receiver could power itself out unless there is a short.

It seams that almost everyone says I just need a receiver with more power and that ohms realy don't have anything to do with the issue.

 

[j_garcia]

Impedance does have something to do with it (low impedance will always draw more current), but that may not be what is causing the issue alone.

Have you checked the incoming current from the wall? If it drops below a certain level, the receiver may not like that either. Just a thought.

 

[dem beats]

Impedance does have something to do with it (low impedance will always draw more current), but that may not be what is causing the issue alone.

Have you checked the incoming current from the wall? If it drops below a certain level, the receiver may not like that either. Just a thought.

I have not checked the wall. I didn't think of that one!

I don't know I ran my sub off of that outlet before the new set up for quite some time though with no trouble. Sometimes maxing it out to show off to some friends... It's worth a shot though if nothing else works. I will be trying different wire and running different cobminations of the speakers just to rule that out. More and more I am thinking the receiver just doesn't have the swinging hairy balls to produce the juice to play the speakers when all channels are working on a big sound. I am going to request the rep test run the same scene with the same speakers and see if he has a different result.

 

[dem beats]

I not sure, I can answer your specific problem. I do think the Energy RC's would do better with a little more power. What's the sound like in 2 channel, do you have the same problem? Here are some measurements on the RC's 70's very close to the 50's you own.

Nice choice in speakers, Billy p

http://www.soundstagenetwork.com/measurements/speakers/energy_rc_70/

BTW thank you verry much. Best speakers within 2,000 bucks for the set IMHO. I wanted to have a set up with towers in front and back but I opted to have some money for the receiver...

lay cheesey cartoon sad music here: