I'm furious and now poor. Please help!!

[dem beats]

I will check them out and perhaps that Denon kit. Do you think a Rotel may be able to handle it?

maybe RSX-1057? I bet the RSX-1067 is out of my range from the shop though..
=)

 

[Nick250]

Cheep but decent enough speakers.
Thanks!

Cheap out on ANYTHING BUT THE SPEAKERS. They BY FAR are the most important part of your system. You CAN NOT tune your system by using different amps and receivers. They have almost nothing do with sound quality as long as you are not clipping.

In a audio system budget somewhere around 65% should be allocated to speakers.

 

[dem beats]

My speakers are about 82 percent of the audio system. If you include the projector.. well it's so old I forgot about how much I paid but it was a good deal. IF you count that it's like 59% But then there is the sub and I am upgrading that.... lol

 

[emorphien]

I think he was confused with what you said about getting cheap speakers to install around the house for different zones, not your main system.

 

[dem beats]

ooOOOOOOOOoooh makes more sence... My feelings was almost hurt!

 

[darien87]

Cheap out on ANYTHING BUT THE SPEAKERS. They BY FAR are the most important part of your system. You CAN NOT tune your system by using different amps and receivers. They have almost nothing do with sound quality as long as you are not clipping.

Statements like this are what make this "hobby" such a pain in the *** sometimes. I just read yesterday, where a guy was saying EXACTLY the opposite. He said the pre-pro and amps were the most important, because you can't change a bad signal being sent to your speakers, no matter how high quality they are.

Both views seem to have their points. Who the hell are you supposed to believe?!?!

 

[emorphien]

Statements like this are what make this "hobby" such a pain in the *** sometimes. I just read yesterday, where a guy was saying EXACTLY the opposite. He said the pre-pro and amps were the most important, because you can't change a bad signal being sent to your speakers, no matter how high quality they are.

Both views seem to have their points. Who the hell are you supposed to believe?!?!

IMO as long as your source and amplification are decent enough, then it really is your speakers that should spend your money on. Of course you need an amplifier with enough power for the listening conditions you will use it under as well as the ability to handle whatever the impedance and efficiency of your speakers are.

Different components can sound different but the magnitude of those differences pale to what better speakers or room acoustics can do.

 

[PENG]

He said the pre-pro and amps were the most important, because you can't change a bad signal being sent to your speakers, no matter how high quality they are.

Both views seem to have their points. Who the hell are you supposed to believe?!?!

That guy only has a point if the pre-pro and amps he talked about would in fact send a bad signal to the speakers. Reality is, any Denon, Yamaha, HK, Pioneer $500 and up receivers are not going to send any bad signals even if their specifications are only half true. Take a look of the THD and frequency response characteristics of prepros and amps, and compare them to that of a $1,000 speaker you will know what Nick meant. Amps are important, but you can approach the point of diminishing return much sooner than you can with speakers.

 

[tomd51]

Statements like this are what make this "hobby" such a pain in the *** sometimes. I just read yesterday, where a guy was saying EXACTLY the opposite. He said the pre-pro and amps were the most important, because you can't change a bad signal being sent to your speakers, no matter how high quality they are.

Both views seem to have their points. Who the hell are you supposed to believe?!?!

While a pre/pro can improve or degrade the source, the speakers and room acoustics will have the greatest impact on how your listening material sounds.

Sadly, opinions are like a-holes, everyone's got one... -TD

 

[Nick250]

I will stick my neck out further and suggest that sound quality is 90% speakers and room acoustics. And I agree with Peng mentioned that at around $500 - $600 the point of diminishing returns comes at ya pretty hard on receivers. For an upgrade, room treatments are where you find seriously improved sound quality. Far more than anything else. Thinking of your room and speakers together as one huge speaker is one way of looking at it

Nick

 

[emorphien]

room treatments are on my short term list now that I've moved. I'm thinking of some ceiling corner trap things to cut down on some echo and I'll see if I can put a few panels on the wall, unfortunately I don't really have space to so I may start with the ceiling corners first.

 

[Dolby CP-200]

Well you should consider very seriously about installing separates with careful deign and affordability that would allow you to enjoy films at a modest playback safety factor of 85dbA max peak in the middle of the room.

Active crossover dividing frequency loudspeaker management systems seems to be the answer today! They come with an assorted array of customized features that will allow to tailor the sound system with delay settings dynamic EQ for making cretin sound within a certain frequency band smoother.

Audio limiters for safety of you’re equipment like amplifiers and the individual loudspeakers LF and HF, as well as having matching professional affordable amplifies with biographic display and clip light that will warn you when your being careless with negligence, only then will you have an audio problem!

But, like I said with careful installation and design will you only then have a good home cinema sound system set-up.

Lastly and most importantly, once you’ve reached 0db there is no other place to go! Unless you what to damage you’re home cinema! So get some affordable Behringer DCX2496 and matching new amplifiers matching loudspeakers for the fronts and use only the RCA pre-outputs from the AVR!

 

[avliner]

I think Dolby CP is just saying:

go with active sudio monitors, though..

 

[dem beats]

I think I know I need an external amp at this point which is what I will have to do. It's just going to take some time before I save up for it, and a sub is a bit more on the list of things to do.

 

[Nick250]

I think I know I need an external amp at this point which is what I will have to do. It's just going to take some time before I save up for it, and a sub is a bit more on the list of things to do.

Get the sub first and set all your speakers to small. That frees up a big chunk of the load from your receiver. Maybe that will free up enough of the power so you will not have to get an external amp (that you likely don't need anyway IMO) load to get what your are looking for.

Get the sub first and experiment with the speakers set at large and then with the speakers set as small. See what sounds better.

Nick

 

[billy p]

Omg

I thought you had a sub. Then, I totally agree with Nick250 suggestion in buying the sub first. The RC's would benefit from setting the x-over @ 60-80 and letting the sub play loud and deep, which would take the load off your AVR having to push your mains full range.

Sorry, for sounding redundant.

 

[dem beats]

I thought you had a sub. Then, I totally agree with Nick250 suggestion in buying the sub first. The RC's would benefit from setting the x-over @ 60-80 and letting the sub play loud and deep, which would take the load off your AVR having to push your mains full range.

Sorry, for sounding redundant.

No need to be sorry. I do have a sub. I have a little velodyne DPS 10". He's a nice little guy but can't hang in the low end, and tries to over power everything in the midbass. Speakers are set to small too BTW. Don't get me wrong that DPS can put out the SPL way more than I need for my room... that doesn't mean it's "musical" (SQ) enough, clean enough, and most definately doesn't play low enough compaired to some of the subs I have heard and FEALT.

I may be building my own sub, getting a plus/2 or an ultra PC. I'm quite torn to be honest... Choices choices...

 

[darien87]

No need to be sorry. I do have a sub. I have a little velodyne DPS 10". He's a nice little guy but can't hang in the low end, and tries to over power everything in the midbass. Speakers are set to small too BTW. Don't get me wrong that DPS can put out the SPL way more than I need for my room... that doesn't mean it's "musical" (SQ) enough, clean enough, and most definately doesn't play low enough compaired to some of the subs I have heard and FEALT.

I may be building my own sub, getting a plus/2 or an ultra PC. I'm quite torn to be honest... Choices choices...

If you're looking to possibly build a sub, I'd recommend looking into one of the Rythmik Audio kits. I recently built a 12" sealed box and it was one of the best things I've ever done in regards to my home theater. It was totally easy to do. I have only rudimentary tools. If I can do it, anyone can.

 

[dem beats]

I heard good things about rythmic.

If you're looking to possibly build a sub, I'd recommend looking into one of the Rythmik Audio kits. I recently built a 12" sealed box and it was one of the best things I've ever done in regards to my home theater. It was totally easy to do. I have only rudimentary tools. If I can do it, anyone can.

I was looking at their 15" kit. Also I looked at sound splinter... the price point is just stupid cheep for the performance I think. TC sounds are a bit 'leet and are better build but the dollar starts to stretch less there. When you could do 3 18"s from one pretty good brand and not over power them you can get more volume of air moved than you could from one high end 18".

Then enter the INSANE level of woofer.
I am planning something over the top.... I'm waiting on a line I have about some absolutely insane subwoofers(maybe only a 12 however) built for extreme low, SQ and power handeling. I would love to do an 18" but I don't think I can find a good price on it....

I also gave Bag End and genelec some serious thought, but at their prices for everything I figure I can build something on my own and literaly know I did that. I may even do some insane Horn style, but usualy those are not too musical and built for raw SPL... I don't need the sub any louder.... my velodyne dps can rumble the house actualy when it's in a good spot in the room.

If I do my own DIY sub set up it will be costly and complicated though.. merely so I can say "I made that, here are your earmuffs, buckle in please and sign this waiver before we turn the movie on."

I'm really just cruising around now waiting for more reasonable dollars to upgrade the surround amp....

I should note that the dynamic shift to thinking more amp and less sub upgrade is the GAF meter is in the red and sniffing about looking to become FAF.... I would much rather get a new super-d-duper sub and start work now but it's out of the option with her having relationship upgradeitis!

... I think I may get a promise pendant, that will let her know I will be planning on a promise ring, to make sure she is clear I am commited to then getting an engagement ring at a TBD date.... We will see how long I can draw that one out...

 

[mbakker]

Well, I have a similar setup although I use an almost 10 year old Receiver, a Yamaha 2095 which I still love.

I have the RC-70's in the front, the RC-LCR for the center and 2 pair of RC-R (one set for the rears and one set for the Yamaha effects channels up front).

I can literally crank this system on any of the movies you've quoted and I have no problems with things getting quieter or cutting out. I looked up my receiver and found the dynamic power to be rated at 140/170/230/320W for 8,6,4 and 2 ohms respectively. I also looked up the receiver you had/have and it states a power rating of 105/170/225W for 8,4 and 3 ohms respectively. My receiver does weigh more (44 lbs) vs. the Onkyo (26 lbs). I would attribute that to the power supply. So the only thing I can think of is that the power supply at higher volumes maxes out with those speakers.

Other things to consider is when does this occur? Are you testing this out from a cold start on the receiver? How hot is the receiver when this is happening? I don't know about the whole speaker wire deal in some of the posts on this thread, but the more resistance in the wire, the harder the amp has to work and it may be shutting down with 5 speakers running at full bore in the Star Wars scene. Other movies may be just as loud, but maybe not with all the surrounds kicking in like in that scene.

The speakers themselves are awesome and I really enjoy them. I don't think you can go wrong with them for the price in their category. It may be an amp thing, but hard for me to think so based on what I've read - unless your receiver has an issue.

I had my electrical wired on a separate circuit and use a panamax 5510 for power generation/protection. I don't know if that would make a difference or not in your situation.

In my opinion though, something seems amiss with the receiver.

My 2 cents.