I need AV advice

[Bill C]

I do have enough air movement around avr, I have a paradigm DSP-3200 v.2 spec below
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Amplifier 900 watts Dynamic Peak / 300 watts RMS
Amplifier Features Auto-On / Off, soft clipping Room Correction pbk-1
Low Pass Filter Frequency Variable 35 Hz - 150 Hz; Bypass Option
Low Frequency Driver 305-mm (12 in) CAP™ cone, ceramic / ferrite magnet, 50-mm (2 in) 4-layer voice-coil, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis
Low Frequency Extension 22 Hz (DIN)
Sub / Sat Phase Alignment Variable 0° - 180°
Inputs RCA (L/R-Mono) for L/R Line-Out or Sub-Out / LFE-Out of receiver, processor or other line-level source
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Sub is Currently set to 80 hz and Phase aliment set to 90 degree ..

 

[lovinthehd]

I do have enough air movement around avr, I have a paradigm DSP-3200 v.2 spec below
--------------------------------------------------------
Amplifier 900 watts Dynamic Peak / 300 watts RMS
Amplifier Features Auto-On / Off, soft clipping Room Correction pbk-1
Low Pass Filter Frequency Variable 35 Hz - 150 Hz; Bypass Option
Low Frequency Driver 305-mm (12 in) CAP™ cone, ceramic / ferrite magnet, 50-mm (2 in) 4-layer voice-coil, AVS™ die-cast heatsink chassis
Low Frequency Extension 22 Hz (DIN)
Sub / Sat Phase Alignment Variable 0° - 180°
Inputs RCA (L/R-Mono) for L/R Line-Out or Sub-Out / LFE-Out of receiver, processor or other line-level source
--------------------------------------------------------
Sub is Currently set to 80 hz and Phase aliment set to 90 degree ..

I'd try setting your LCR to small and use the avr to crossover with the sub at 80hz to start...and use the LFE setting rather than LFE+Main. Did you run Audyssey? Are you using Dynamic Volume? I'd turn that off. I'd also try using Dynamic EQ but aside from movies you'll want to use that in conjunction with the Reference Level Offset (from 5 to 15) for music.

Turn the low pass filter on the sub to max value, at 80hz it will conflict with setting a crossover in the avr (assuming you've connected the sub pre-out on the avr to one of the rca inputs on the sub). Why phase at 90 degrees? That where it sounded strongest?

If the avr continues to run very warm you might think about a cooling fan to sit on top of the Denon. How much free space around the avr, though? How is it situated?

 

[Bill C]

I'd try setting your LCR to small and use the avr to crossover with the sub at 80hz to start...and use the LFE setting rather than LFE+Main. Did you run Audyssey? Are you using Dynamic Volume? I'd turn that off. I'd also try using Dynamic EQ but aside from movies you'll want to use that in conjunction with the Reference Level Offset (from 5 to 15) for music.

Turn the low pass filter on the sub to max value, at 80hz it will conflict with setting a crossover in the avr (assuming you've connected the sub pre-out on the avr to one of the rca inputs on the sub). Why phase at 90 degrees? That where it sounded strongest?

If the avr continues to run very warm you might think about a cooling fan to sit on top of the Denon. How much free space around the avr, though? How is it situated?

Thank you lovinthehd , I tried bi-amps vs without and found that bi-amp does improve even though passive (Little more power from front), I have tried to set the Small and tried with 80 and 60 Crossover for LCR but for some i found that it's sound better when it is in large mode, not sure why, It' in LFE , I am yet to try changing the Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ ..Will try more setting and try again..

 

[everettT]

Thank you lovinthehd , I tried bi-amps vs without and found that bi-amp does improve even though passive (Little more power from front), I have tried to set the Small and tried with 80 and 60 Crossover for LCR but for some i found that it's sound better when it is in large mode, not sure why, It' in LFE , I am yet to try changing the Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ ..Will try more setting and try again..

With large only your sub is not going to do anything. What do you mean "a little more power" when biamped? Sounds like placebo to me.

 

[Bill C]

Yes with large it is true the sub becomes useless(May be for the surround) , I feel that the front stage is better with large .. I am thinking that the sub may have not been placed correctly ..

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Yes with large it is true the sub becomes useless(May be for the surround) , I feel that the front stage is better with large .. I am thinking that the sub may have not been placed correctly ..

That’s a possibility. Placement is the first rule. As HD asked, I’m wondering about the 90deg phase setting. How did you come to that? If you like large setting for the front, you might try small, and just use a lower XO. Can’t recall your mains off hand but 40 or 50hz might be a good split of the difference.

 

[lovinthehd]

Thank you lovinthehd , I tried bi-amps vs without and found that bi-amp does improve even though passive (Little more power from front), I have tried to set the Small and tried with 80 and 60 Crossover for LCR but for some i found that it's sound better when it is in large mode, not sure why, It' in LFE , I am yet to try changing the Dynamic Volume and Dynamic EQ ..Will try more setting and try again..

Don't know how you determined there is a little more power from passive bi-amping, that sounds like placebo to me as well.

If you're still using Dynamic Volume I'd just turn that feature off, that's more about late night listening, it's a compression routine.

Dynamic EQ is a loudness contour and will be different between movies and music depending on the RLO (reference level offset) settings.

What are you using in these tests for source? Movies? Music?

 

[Bill C]

Thank you all , thank you lovethehd .. I keep the center as small and @40hz and L and R as Large and I am happy with this setting, Still looks little under powered , Since I have to go all the way to 75% to get a good Sound .. Since my room is Open towards the back and part of the left side wall is also open, I want to ask the option of 5.1 vs 7.1 I didn't like the 7.1 Since there is too much distraction from the rear , I din't like that.. for stage performance / concerts .. but for movies that is ok (not great ) my question is if any one running 1 Surround back ( planning to buy a surround speaker) 6.1 and one celling speaker so get atoms also ? 6.1.1 ? Just also didn't want to spend too much up front ..

 

[Bill C]

Happy Thanksgiving everyone

 

[Bill C]

Don't know how you determined there is a little more power from passive bi-amping, that sounds like placebo to me as well.

If you're still using Dynamic Volume I'd just turn that feature off, that's more about late night listening, it's a compression routine.

Dynamic EQ is a loudness contour and will be different between movies and music depending on the RLO (reference level offset) settings.

What are you using in these tests for source? Movies? Music?

Thank you all , thank you lovethehd .. I keep the center as small and @40hz and L and R as Large and I am happy with this setting, Still looks little under powered , Since I have to go all the way to 75% to get a good Sound .. Since my room is Open towards the back and part of the left side wall is also open, I want to ask the option of 5.1 vs 7.1 I didn't like the 7.1 Since there is too much distraction from the rear , I din't like that.. for stage performance / concerts .. but for movies that is ok (not great ) my question is if any one running 1 Surround back ( planning to buy a surround speaker) 6.1 and one celling speaker so get atoms also ? 6.1.1 ? Just also didn't want to spend too much up front ..

 

[lovinthehd]

What do you mean by 75% volume? How does underpowered look?

Have you experimented with front height instead of rear surround? 5.1 may suffice too. Can't help you with the Atmos stuff, don't use it.

I'd still cross your L/C/R speakers to at least 60 as their lower frequency response is similar (-2dB at 45Hz for your mains, 47hz for the center). Preference is preference, tho.

 

[Bill C]

I still need to do more experiments !! Thx for all help, I was trying to see if I can get away with 6.1 for surround as well as 1 ceiling speakers for Atmos? Also what was wrong with your pioneer and what you liked about if Any ?

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

I still need to do more experiments !! Thx for all help, I was trying to see if I can get away with 6.1 for surround as well as 1 ceiling speakers for Atmos? Also what was wrong with your pioneer and what you liked about if Any ?

Sorry Bill. Atmos will only work properly with height speakers in pairs. Also, if you find 7.1 to be too much, you could turn down the channel levels by a couple dB until you find a level you like. IMO that would be better than going to a single rear speaker. Also, HD mentioned trying to go with front heights instead. I’ve seen lots of reports where that was favored over rear surrounds.

 

[Bill C]

Sorry Bill. Atmos will only work properly with height speakers in pairs. Also, if you find 7.1 to be too much, you could turn down the channel levels by a couple dB until you find a level you like. IMO that would be better than going to a single rear speaker. Also, HD mentioned trying to go with front heights instead. I’ve seen lots of reports where that was favored over rear surrounds.

Thank you William , How does a height layout is that above the Front L and R , also open pair of celling also ?
So it will be like 5.1.4 instead of 7.1 , I may go and listen some place before making , before making the investment ..

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Thank you William , How does a height layout is that above the Front L and R , also open pair of celling also ?
So it will be like 5.1.4 instead of 7.1 , I may go and listen some place before making , before making the investment ..

I apologize, but I didn’t really follow your question. I will try in any case. My comment for front heights, was going off HD’s suggestion, and that you mentioned you didn’t enjoy too much in the rear channels. I was agreeing that a standard 7.1(not 5.1.2)with front heights(yes above the mains as you asked) as opposed to rear surrounds might be better. I just realize as I’m typing this though, that won’t work with an Atmos receiver since it doesn’t have that processing anymore. However some have reported good results with SVS prime elevation speakers in the standard front heights locations as Atmos speakers. My other comment to atmos was that they need to be added in pairs, for the playback to be correct. It’s the interplay between them that makes it work.
Not sure I added one single useful thing. Lol
I am going to have some more coffee and go from there!

 

[lovinthehd]

@William Lemmerhirt I thought it was front wides that went away, now front height as well? I'm not following the Atmos/Auro3D/DTS:X avrs much tho....

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@William Lemmerhirt I thought it was front wides that went away, now front height as well? I'm not following the Atmos/Auro3D/DTS:X avrs much tho....

Yeah. PLIIx/PLIIz is gone. Dsu, or Dolby Surround is the new sheriff in town.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yeah. PLIIx/PLIIz is gone. Dsu, or Dolby Surround is the new sheriff in town.

So rear surrounds are only 7.1 option now? Kinda like my avrs that offer front heights/wides and rear surrounds....but if I had ceiling speakers maybe I'd not care any more but that's not likely gonna happen with my ceilings

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

So rear surrounds are only 7.1 option now? Kinda like my avrs that offer front heights/wides and rear surrounds....but if I had ceiling speakers maybe I'd not care any more but that's not likely gonna happen with my ceilings

I think that’s what they’re counting on. That everyone is gonna play along and put their time and money into atmos, and not care about legacy stuff. I’m going to put mine in the ceiling, but I’ve got a 10deg vault so, I’m scratching my head a little bit.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

@lovinthehd here’s Dolby’s guide to installation. There are versions that support wides like a 9.1.4 setup, but still no PlII decoding.
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-atmos/dolby-atmos-home-theater-installation-guidelines.pdf