I am so confused!

[Shadow_Ferret]

I've read that concerning audio, the last thing you hear is the best thing you like (or something like that).

I'm finding this to be horribly true and wonder how people make decisions when they can't do side-by-side auditioning, but must go from store to store to listen, often separated by a period of weeks?

I've heard Athena AS-B1s and liked them. I listened to Polk Audio Monitor 30s and was also quite pleased. Then I heard NHT SB1s. I was blown away. Even with a separation of days and stores, I could tell these were superior to the prior two speakers.

Then I heard some Signature Technology speakers and found them to be (considering it was a couple weeks later) at least as good as the NHT.

Now, in most cases I've been listening to what they wanted me to listen to. Usually something I've never heard before (except in the case of the NHTs, it was a Phil Collins cd).

So, as I went out again to listen to some speakers, I brought along my own CDs. I auditioned some Paradigm Atoms. Wow! I must say they were fantastic. I played some Return to Forever with lots of bass and even without the subwoofer I was duely impressed. With the subwoofer (the 8 incher mind you)? Fantastic.

OK, here's my question: How do you guys choose speakers when you can't listen to them in the same room at the same time? Now I'm leaning toward the Paradigms, but I still would like to listen to some PSBs, some Cantons, and Boston Acoustic. Unless those speakers suck, I'm going to be even more confused!

 

[Leprkon]

You know we live in good times acoustically speaking when there are so many choices that are so good that you can actually afford that you can't decide...

 

[zumbo]

What I try to do is pay attention to the strongest point of the speaker. Then keep a mental note of which one was the best at what. For me, B&W are strong in the mids, and have clean accurate tweets. I like that the best. But to get the high-end models, it just cost too much. NHT have superb tweets and an overall great sound. Still, for what you get, the cost is a little high. Polks have a great overall sound, but the mid-bass is weak (IMO). Paradigm has a great overall sound, excellent value, but they don't seem to be the best at anything other than what you get for the money. I chose MB Quart because they sound similar to B&W at a fraction of the cost. Of the speakers you listed, I would choose the Paradigm. But, you owe it to yourself to audition some B&W's.

Oops, look at me. I was trying to help, and just added more choices. I hope in some way this helps.

 

[bray]

audition audition audition

Besides reading every review I can on a speaker, I audition them.
Most stores will let you audition or buy and return a speaker.
There is no substitute for hearing them in your own home.
Many speakers that will sound great in a store set-up sound less than great in your personel listening area, and vice-versa.
If your looking online there are several companys that offer a 30 day home audition, and you only pay shipping for the return. Axiom and Rocket come to mind. Both great sounding speakers. Check em out.

 

[warpdrive]

What I try to do is pay attention to the strongest point of the speaker. Then keep a mental note of which one was the best at what. For me, B&W are strong in the mids, and have clean accurate tweets. I like that the best. But to get the high-end models, it just cost too much. NHT have superb tweets and an overall great sound. Still, for what you get, the cost is a little high. Polks have a great overall sound, but the mid-bass is weak (IMO). Paradigm has a great overall sound, excellent value, but they don't seem to be the best at anything other than what you get for the money. I chose MB Quart because they sound similar to B&W at a fraction of the cost. Of the speakers you listed, I would choose the Paradigm. But, you owe it to yourself to audition some B&W's.

Be careful of sweeping generalizations.

Have you heard the Signature Series Paradigm? I would put these in the top class of speakers, regardless of money.

NHT has made good and bad speakers in the past.

Not all B&W's are good. I really though the CM series was mediocre, but I liked the 600 series.

Every speaker line has strengths and weaknesses

 

[zumbo]

Be careful of sweeping generalizations.

Have you heard the Signature Series Paradigm? I would put these in the top class of speakers, regardless of money.

NHT has made good and bad speakers in the past.

Not all B&W's are good. I really though the CM series was mediocre, but I liked the 600 series.

Every speaker line has strengths and weaknesses

Yes. I have heard the signature series. They are great, and a great choice. But at that price point, there are some serious contenders. Also note that I stated I would choose Paradigm of all the brands that were mentioned.

As far as NHT, I am in the present. I own a NHT SW-12. It's killer! And the SB1's, which is what was mentioned, are great!

And for B&W, notice I stated high end. To be more specific, 700's & 800's.

 

[Pat D]

Use familiar recordings and take notes

I've read that concerning audio, the last thing you hear is the best thing you like (or something like that).

I'm finding this to be horribly true and wonder how people make decisions when they can't do side-by-side auditioning, but must go from store to store to listen, often separated by a period of weeks?

I've heard Athena AS-B1s and liked them. I listened to Polk Audio Monitor 30s and was also quite pleased. Then I heard NHT SB1s. I was blown away. Even with a separation of days and stores, I could tell these were superior to the prior two speakers.

Then I heard some Signature Technology speakers and found them to be (considering it was a couple weeks later) at least as good as the NHT.

Now, in most cases I've been listening to what they wanted me to listen to. Usually something I've never heard before (except in the case of the NHTs, it was a Phil Collins cd).

So, as I went out again to listen to some speakers, I brought along my own CDs. I auditioned some Paradigm Atoms. Wow! I must say they were fantastic. I played some Return to Forever with lots of bass and even without the subwoofer I was duely impressed. With the subwoofer (the 8 incher mind you)? Fantastic.

OK, here's my question: How do you guys choose speakers when you can't listen to them in the same room at the same time? Now I'm leaning toward the Paradigms, but I still would like to listen to some PSBs, some Cantons, and Boston Acoustic. Unless those speakers suck, I'm going to be even more confused!

That is a definite problem. Different stores carry different speakers and often we can only hear them separated by days or weeks so we have to rely on really long term memory.

Nevertheless, I think it is possible to find speakers you will like. First of all, find a number of different recordings of different types of music which you know very well . Male and female vocals are essentials. I mostly use Mark Knopfler (Dire Straits), Roger Whittaker, Diana Krall, and Patricia Barber, because they work for me and I have some excellent rcordings by them. Use recordings you know well which sound good on good speakers. If you need to, take notes.

I also use some thickly scored classical material such as full orchestra with massed strings (a symphony), mixed chorus, and piano. I find it much more difficult to assess the upper midrange and treble without using such material and I don't know what to suggest for those who don't like that type of music.

 

[Nomo]

Shadow,
I have to agree with of Zumbo's advise. Mostly his advise to listen to B&Ws. By far the best all around speaker I have heard. Avoiding generalization I'm talking about the 600 series.
To add to your frustration:
Judging by your posts elsewhere you seem to be a jazz fan. Take a look at the Yamaha line. IMO, excellent for acoustical music.

 

[sjdgpt]

Look for weaknesses

The good stuff is so confusing, and especially so considering the speaker in your own home may be totally different sounding, so look for the weakness in the speaker. I know that "sounds" weird, but try to find something the speaker did not do very well, and then compare other speaker's poor performances.

Does the speaker sound "bright"? Many speakers that have metal domed will have what is described as a bright, or forward sound. Soft domed (silk or synthetic) tweeters can described as being mellow or soft sounding. These "traits" are considered weaknesses by people that dislike one speaker over another. So look for the weakness, and determine if that is a sound that you desire.

There are many issues to evaluate.

An example: my Polk LSi's were reviewed with having a poor off axis (vertical) sound dispersion. I discovered the same problem as the reviewer with the LSi 9's mounted on stands. When seated, the sound stage is wonderful, over a fairly broad left to right sitting seating arrangement, but as I stand up (I am only 6') the tweeter output quickly disappears. Pretty noticeable problem. I own the speakers. I wasn't planning on using them in a party room, rather they are in a small HT were I will always be seated.

I had auditioned other speakers from other Polk lines, but did not find the same problem, only with the LSi's.

I have auditioned many other brands of speakers over the years. Something I have looked at is the "fit and finish" of the product. Personally, I hate any speaker that uses vinyl laminate, so many speakers on the market will not find their way into my listening room. So after eliminating some speakers based upon designs alone, grab the speaker and give it a lift. Heavy speaker magnets, wall construction and internal bracing will be quickly felt. Secondly, flip the speaker over. Is the bottom finished in the same manner as the visable portions? Third, check the seam where the front baffle wall meets the side wall AND where the side wall meets the rear wall for misaligned veneer or hardwood joints. Good construction is a sign that somebody cares about their product.

All in all, look for weaknesses, rather than absolute strengths.

 

[zumbo]

Very good point sjdgpt!

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

I wasn't even going to listen to the B&Ws. For one thing, they are out of my price range and for another, one review I read said they were a "little hot" in the higher frequencies. My preference is for a softer high end. That's one reason I don't audition speakers with horns. They're usually too bright for my tastes.

 

[zumbo]

I don't go on speaker reviews. People can confuse meanings. And also, people have their own taste. Trust me on this one. You owe it to yourself to give 'em a listen. They are to speakers what BMW is to sedans.

And, I hate horns. But, I love metal tweets. Remember, those NHT SB1's were hard dome, and they don't even come close to the quality of B&W tweets.

And, if you find you like B&W, then you will love these!

Better Pics.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Zumbo,

Something else to consider. When in a high end audio store, keep in mind a good manager/tech will be able to tweak any given receiver or amp to make the speakers sound better. I can make almost any speaker sound great by adjusting the parametric eq and placing the speakers in the right "spot." A speaker lacking in mids can be tweaked by raising the 1000hz on the receivers eq. If high's are a problem, he'll bump the 4000 or 8000 hz level. You should really narrow your choice down to 2 or 3 units, then take them home with you and audition them. If you cannot do that, make sure your sales rep is comparing speakers off the same amp, and making sure the amp is set to flat, or pure direct. That will eleminate some of the hidden problems with speakers. Also keep in mind two towers placed in corners will have better bass response than two towards the middle of the room, so your choices will need to be compared in the same place rather than doing the old A/B switch. Speakers are expensive, so take your time and trust your ears. No one else's matter. This forum is great for advice, but we all have very specific tastes. Take our opinions with a grain of salt, and trust your ears and the music you're familiar with.

 

[Nomo]

Shadow,
I know exactly what you mean about the price of B&Ws. The only place I'll own those is in my dreams. But to me, leaving out some $20,000 set of speakers, the B&Ws had the perfect sound. For the time being I have, due to limited funds, stopped auditioning speakers. But I used the "perfect sound" the B&Ws as a reference for other auditions.
As I stated before: check out the Yamahas!
I'm currently using the NS-444s for centers and NS-333s for surrounds. I'd love to here what their big brother the NS-777s sound like. No one up here sells them but in your area, maybe.

 

[zumbo]

Zumbo,

Something else to consider. When in a high end audio store, keep in mind a good manager/tech will be able to tweak any given receiver or amp to make the speakers sound better. I can make almost any speaker sound great by adjusting the parametric eq and placing the speakers in the right "spot." A speaker lacking in mids can be tweaked by raising the 1000hz on the receivers eq. If high's are a problem, he'll bump the 4000 or 8000 hz level. You should really narrow your choice down to 2 or 3 units, then take them home with you and audition them. If you cannot do that, make sure your sales rep is comparing speakers off the same amp, and making sure the amp is set to flat, or pure direct. That will eleminate some of the hidden problems with speakers. Also keep in mind two towers placed in corners will have better bass response than two towards the middle of the room, so your choices will need to be compared in the same place rather than doing the old A/B switch. Speakers are expensive, so take your time and trust your ears. No one else's matter. This forum is great for advice, but we all have very specific tastes. Take our opinions with a grain of salt, and trust your ears and the music you're familiar with.

Sorry for your misunderstanding. I am not shopping for speakers. I have about 3k in mine. But, if this was an addition to my statements, not a bad idea. I usually test speakers with a pre-pro and amp set flat. Then, unhook the speaker and audition the next with the same wire. Most of the high-end shops I frequent do it this way. I am not a BB or CC shopper. If I see a sales rep pulling stunts such as you say, I say something over their head and walk out. I love the one where I went into a local box store (not chain) and asked to hear their best speakers, the rep took me to a Bose display. What a joke. They had Polk towers on the floor. And although Polk Audio is not in my top ten, they are much much better than Bose. It's a shame to put them in the same sentence.

 

[Buckeyefan 1]

Zumbo,

My bad, I should have said Shadowferret. I was responding to his first quote. Sorry!

 

[Shadow_Ferret]

Here's a corollary, there are a number of speakers I've heard good things about, are in my price range, but I can't audition. Since I can't hear them in person should I just disgard them from consideration or take a chance and order them, assuming there is the standard 30 day trial period?

For instance the Epos ELS-3 and Monitor Audio Silver S1.

 

[zumbo]

I know for a fact the MB Quarts will smoke the MA's. Yawaonline used to give a 30 day trial. I would call them and ask.

 

[Nomo]

Apologies in advance to Zumbo, He gives great advise in this forum and I really hate stepping on his toes, but........
The MBs he has mentioned are 4 ohm speakers. Not made for a lower/mid range reciever to match up with.(IMO)
I almost pulled a $500 Ebay trigger on a pair a few of months ago to match up to my RX-V1500. Despite some well appreciated advice I got here telling me my 1500 could handle them, my gut told me not to.

Um, Did I mention Yamaha?

 

[Tex-amp]

It will be hard to find Epos or Monitor Audio with 30 day trials. Beside Axiom and Rockets check out Ascend Acoustics and the Ascend forum is a good place to find more info.