Humble advice needed...sub for music?

[insbordnat]

Hello all...been following along for a while and seen many of the posts/threads on subs. But I still can't find much that speaks definitively about the best subs for music.

So here's the setup:

Yamaha RXV-2500
2X Axiom M50ti
2X Axiom M3ti
1X Axiom VP-100

No display yet (other than my 1995 RCA XL-100 20" set) but that isn't important (looking at getting the Sony XBR2 60").

Room is about 5900-6000 cubic feet. High vaulted ceilings and tile floors. Echoey room to say the least.

Oh, and the other part is my two Technics SL1200MKIIs with about 1000 records.

So here's the deal: My upper limit for a sub technically is around $3k, but the thought of spending that much on a sub makes me nauseous. Realistically, I'm looking to spend $600-$1200.

I don't want gobs of sloppy bass. Although SPL is important, I want some tightness. The kind of tightness listening to varied music such as Robert Randolph, Kraftwerk, Steely Dan, and all of my records (which are a combo of some hip-hop, but mainly electronic music). I do watch movies, and once I get my Sony I suppose I'll be watching many more. However, I get the most joy showing off my system's capabilities playing some music.

I've looked at the JL Audio Fathom 12" sub, the SVS PB-12 Plus, PB-12 Plus/2, HSUs, Axioms, and Velodyne DD-18.

I'm heavily leaning towards the SVS-12 Plus/2 for my room. BUT...I don't want just a boomy disaster. I want to feel it. Maybe I'm a little swayed by a friend who has a Klipsch in his room which is of similar dimensions - it just sounds boomy.

Also, I noticed the phenomenon of "lagginess" when I had a sub in my Explorer...seemed like the sub was trailing the music slightly. I'd be really disappointed if that was the result.

Any advice is appreciated...thanks!

(note my sig is out of date since I bought my current equipment)

 

[Seth=L]

Klipsch doesn't make great subs. From what I hear SVS are supposed to be pretty tight. If you tune them to a lower frequency, the bass will likely sound less muddy if it was muddy to begin with.

 

[Francesco]

and what about velodyne's vx-10?
I have the same "problem": finding a sub that is not a boomboom-box for using with music... and not too expensive

 

[kgb540]

If your room is that alive, you need to address it first and foremost or it wont matter what sub anyone recommends. Decorative acoustic panels and bass traps need to be part of the budget. For best results you probably will spend close to $3k. Spending that much will be bittersweet at first, but well worth it considering the amount of extra enjoyment you will get out of your system from then on. Start with the $3k and deduct the proper amount for some panels and possibly (if needed) professional design. If the room acoustic correction isnt an option, then whatever sub you get should have some sort of parametric EQ to help smooth out the bass. I personally feel that the Velodyne and JL subs are a bit ahead of SVS in terms of musicality, but the SVS subs offer such a great over-all value that makes up for any sonic difference. Your in an area (pricewise) that it is almost hard to screw up the purchase if you do a little home-work. You ARE going to get a great sub, its just a matter of which.

 

[sivadselim]

Klipsch doesn't make great subs.

I have a Klipsch RSW15 and can tell you that you are very wrong. It may not be the best at trolling the bottom registers, but for music, I've not heard a better sub. It still is one of the champions on Nousaine's subwoofer output chart.

The Klipsch Sub12 is a great sub for the price; you could probably get 2 of them in the range you're looking at, insbordnat. It was designed by Deon Bearden (sp?), aka dB, when he was still with Klipsch. He is one of the "big names" in subwoofer design.

 

[jaxvon]

If you can afford the JL audio products, they might be the best bet. In addition to passive acoustical treatments (something you should definitely invest in), the JL audio subwoofers have a built in auto-EQ and such (like the Velodyne subs). Given the choice, I'd want a pair of JL subs for good, even bass.

 

[mtrycrafts]

Room is about 5900-6000 cubic feet. High vaulted ceilings and tile floors. Echoey room to say the least.
So here's the deal: My upper limit for a sub technically is around $3k, but the thought of spending that much on a sub makes me nauseous. Realistically, I'm looking to spend $600-$1200.

I don't want gobs of sloppy bass. Although SPL is important, I want some tightness. The kind of tightness listening to varied music such as Robert Randolph, Kraftwerk, Steely Dan, and all of my records (which are a combo of some hip-hop, but mainly electronic music). I do watch movies, and once I get my Sony I suppose I'll be watching many more. However, I get the most joy showing off my system's capabilities playing some music.

I've looked at the JL Audio Fathom 12" sub, the SVS PB-12 Plus, PB-12 Plus/2, HSUs, Axioms, and Velodyne DD-18.

Firstly, that is a huge space you are looking to fill with spl.
Two subs are better than one and four can be even better, according to credible research:
http://www.harman.com/wp/pdf/Loudspeakers&RoomsPt3.pdf

You won't know what room treatments you need for the subs until you get them and start measuring their effects at different location. Echo affects frequencies above the sub frequency more. A matter of wavelengths.
If you want spl to be satisfied with, you will be looking closer to your higher end of your budget, thanks to your room size.

 

[insbordnat]

If you want spl to be satisfied with, you will be looking closer to your higher end of your budget, thanks to your room size.

Are you referring to the 3k or 1.2k? You're right, it's going to take more to fill the room, but I'm also assuming with a SVS PB-12 Plus/2 I'll be happy (while knowing not as happy as I could be with a JL Audio Fathom...or two for that matter).

Hypothetically, with the Plus/2 and some bass traps and furniture, rugs, and other "stuff" that would potentially help diffuse sound, do you think that I can achieve a reasonable result? I know it's subjective, but my only concern is that the bass response will be flat. I would imagine that that sub in the room is still going to sound impressive to the average joe (apologize in advance for any Joes out there who are better than average) and to me who I consider a higher than average sound critic.

Given the choice, I'd want a pair of JL subs for good, even bass.

So would I. Maybe in a year or two I'll be able to float it. Then I could potentially have the 2 JLs and whatever I choose now running. Maybe my ears will bleed then

Would I have a better result with two subs over one Plus/2? I may consider it, but my challenge is that I was planning on corner loading the Plus/2, and I can't really put another in the other corner due to a sliding glass door. Could I just put 2 SB's right next to each other? Any thoughts on the sound?

 

[mtrycrafts]

Are you referring to the 3k or 1.2k? You're right, it's going to take more to fill the room, but I'm also assuming with a SVS PB-12 Plus/2 I'll be happy (while knowing not as happy as I could be with a JL Audio Fathom...or two for that matter).

Why not give SVS a call for some technical advice on that sub and your rooms volume and dimensions. They are there to help, a bunch of great guys. I have known about Tom for a long time now.

 

[insbordnat]

Why not give SVS a call for some technical advice on that sub and your rooms volume and dimensions. They are there to help, a bunch of great guys. I have known about Tom for a long time now.

Thanks for the advice - I spoke to them and they recommended the PB-12 Plus/2.

I'll let you all know how it turns out! Now I just have to wait