HTPC Build Part 1: The Stuff

[itschris]

Can't return back to store?

but your question: 2gb ram is fine. 32gb ssd would be enough. Stock cooler is fine. no need for bd drive - you'll be doing rips elsewhere

I don't think so. It was like Christmas. I imediately tore open the boxes and finger-f-ed everything. Maybe I still could, but it's not a big deal. I still think the CPU and chipset are great for what I'm doing.

There doesn't seem to be significant cost savings going from the Samsung SSD to a 60 or even a 30. For the high rated name brand stuff, it's a matter of 20-30 dollars or so. For the RAM, it's the operating system that really has the requirement more so than what the machine is doing... correct? So on a Windows HTPC, 4 gig is just better because of Windows... nothing else really. But OpenElec just requires less resources, so less RAM. The process of being an HTPC doesn't matter. Is that bascially correct in layman's terms?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I don't think so. It was like Christmas. I imediately tore open the boxes and finger-f-ed everything. Maybe I still could, but it's not a big deal. I still think the CPU and chipset are great for what I'm doing.

There doesn't seem to be significant cost savings going from the Samsung SSD to a 60 or even a 30. For the high rated name brand stuff, it's a matter of 20-30 dollars or so. For the RAM, it's the operating system that really has the requirement more so than what the machine is doing... correct? So on a Windows HTPC, 4 gig is just better because of Windows... nothing else really. But OpenElec just requires less resources, so less RAM. The process of being an HTPC doesn't matter. Is that bascially correct in layman's terms?

OpenElec is very stripped down Linux with XBMC on top of that. Few core functions to manage underlying hardware is built-in into the xbmc gui (app) - the great part is you don't need to know linux to install and use it.
So yea, much less needy than any windows - less ram, less cpu, much smaller footprint in every sense.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Fellow user BoredSysAdmin got me looking into alternative solutions and XMBC. I started looking into the small box solutions using OpenElec and XMBC. Everything seemed really close, but it really just came down to me wanting to build a full blown HTPC again that could do everything I want today and hopefully down the road a bit.

I started doing all the research... again... and with a lot of help from Bored, AcuDefTechGuy, Aberkowitz, and others, I think I'm on my way. My bottom line goal is that this new box has to be able to bitstream the hi-def sound codecs to my Pioneer for decoding. I want to see the DTS-MA and Dolby Tru-HD sections light up when I watch a movie run on the HTPC. PQ is a must as well, as is a slick, easy to use interface. I spent the past two weeks drilling these guys with questions and reading page after page after page of discussions and reviews on the subject and various pieces of hardware.


I feel pretty confident at this point that I got a great hardware list to do the job.

I am still loving XBMC to the max.

I can't believe it took me this long to discover XBMC.

- DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD Hi RES, Dolby TrueHD lights up on my Denon's LCD and sound amazing as always. Love it.
- 1080p (BD rip) and 720p (torrent downloads) both look fabulous. XBMC even has subtitles to download.
- I can zoom in from 1.0 to 1.3 ratio to get rid of those black bar 2.35:1 movies. Love it. Love it. Love it.

 

[itschris]

So as I embrace this OpenElec deal, I'm really starting to rethink this as I've been encouraged to do so all along. The more i thought about it, I really don't need an SSD at this point. I was thinking I could just boot off a one of the those little memory cards. Did some research and then realized this is what BoredSysAdmin was talking about in the other thread. So bottom line... I'm getting there.

I'm thinking a 16gig Class 10 card should work just fine for OpenElec and XMBC. I'm just going to scrap the SSD alltogether unless you guys see any reason not to.

I've also been thinking about the m/b and cpu. I already have it, but may just use it for another build... perhaps my NAS. The thing is, I know this combo can bitstream the HD audio codecs. The new i3 4120t runs cool does what I want and the new 4400 graphics seem to be far better than the prior set for picture quality which was one of the knocks on the prior Intel offerings. So I'm just going back and forth and not sure what I should do.

As far as booting to the memory card.. is there any meaningful performance penalty over an SSD? I've read of OpenElec boot times of 20-25 seconds with an SSD... does that significantly change using a Class 10 card? What about longevity?

Edit: I was just doing some more reading. I guess a Class 10 wouldn't be ideal as it's designed more for moving large chunks of data. I think a class 4 or 6 would be ideal. If I go this route and abandon the SSD.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

As far as booting to the memory card.. is there any meaningful performance penalty over an SSD? I've read of OpenElec boot times of 20-25 seconds with an SSD... does that significantly change using a Class 10 card? What about longevity? I'm assuming these don't burn out or anything.

There are many performance differences between different memory cards, I learned the hard way that class is meaningless. Many vendors simple ignore it and produce random regardless of it.
It really depends on your luck, not much on card selected.

On the upside it's not all doom and gloom - while SD cards performance is still a mess and all other map, you could get much better speeds using usb3 flash sticks
I have this one, but with 64Gb - it's really, really fast - almost as fast as SSD disks - Newegg.com - SanDisk Extreme 16GB USB 3.0 Flash Drive Model SDCZ80-016G-A75

I have my nas boot from usb3.0 memory card reader and fast sd card (didn't tested it but it top spec'd)

Chris - I will tell you this I have openElec boot from slow laptop harddrive (5400rpm) and I don't particularly feel that it is slow

 

[itschris]

Hmmm... $30 for the 16g stick... $99 for the 120gig Samsung SSD. On paper the SSD is such a better value, but I guess in the end, it just really doesn't matter at all since I won't be utilizing the extra space of the SSD so $60 is $60. I guess the only thing is it'll be sticking out the back of my HTPC box, but I guess I don't really care about that.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Hmmm... $30 for the 16g stick... $99 for the 120gig Samsung SSD. On paper the SSD is such a better value, but I guess in the end, it just really doesn't matter at all since I won't be utilizing the extra space of the SSD so $60 is $60. I guess the only thing is it'll be sticking out the back of my HTPC box, but I guess I don't really care about that.

Hey - I'm all for saving few bucks, If you already have buildin sd card reader and prefer USB stick not to stick out at the back you could try to use moderately fast SD card like this one:
http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Ultra-Class-Memory-SDSDU-016G-U46/dp/B007BJHETS/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1389121719&sr=1-1&keywords=16+GB+Class+10+SDHC+Flash+Card

 

[itschris]

Well I'm assuming the M/B can have an I/O set that would include the flash memory reader. If there's no other reason other than a few seconds boot time that, I guess it doesn't matter at all to me.

So I basically just download openelec to the flash card on my other computer, set the new HTPC bios to boot to the card reader and that's it? It just runs off the card? That just seems weird to me, but I guess it makes sense. I guess I've been out of this stuff too long so it all seems like "future stuff" to me.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

Well I'm assuming the M/B can have an I/O set that would include the flash memory reader.

Not sure regarding memory card reader - I can't find it in neither M/B or Case specs... You might have to get a internal or external memory card readers, but by this time might as well get the fast usb stick I mentioned before. I researched comparable units and most of them suck in ether reliability, build quality, performance or a combination of these three.

So I basically just download openelec to the flash card on my other computer, set the new HTPC bios to boot to the card reader and that's it? It just runs off the card? That just seems weird to me, but I guess it makes sense. I guess I've been out of this stuff too long so it all seems like "future stuff" to me.

Basically yes
Just make sure to grab the right image - if going with Intel you'd need an Intel build : Download OpenELEC - Intel Builds

 

[itschris]

Thanks Bored. I think I'm just going to go with the USB stick. I can't find anything about the slot reader either and I'm getting a bit agitated with everything at this point anyway. But that Samsung SSD makes sense too. It's not much more... but whatever. I don't know... I like the permanance of the SSD vs having my entire software package simply plugged into the back. I just gotta get my head around that more I guess. It just seems so odd to me. Either way, I'm overthinking everything at this point. I'm gonna just make a game time decision.

You've been a big help... I appreciate it.

 

[Grador]

An additional advantage to going with a memory card or usb stick is that it's easier to dual boot should you ever decide you want windows. If you set the boot order to USB before HDD you can boot to windows only if you pull the memory card out first.

 

[itschris]

An additional advantage to going with a memory card or usb stick is that it's easier to dual boot should you ever decide you want windows. If you set the boot order to USB before HDD you can boot to windows only if you pull the memory card out first.

Well, it looks like I have to add a memory card reader for the mem card option to work and after reading more on installing OpenElec, you have to have two USB drives, one with the install files and one, the actual boot USB, to install too. Not a big deal, but for $99, I'm just thinking the SSD drive isn't all that much more.

Im done. I'm just gonna start ordering stuff and see what I end up with. I've totally over analyzed this. My wife just laughed at me and said I'm a little girl...stressing about which dress to wear. That pretty much put things in perspective. Thanks guys, I'm out. I start ordering the rest tomorrow.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Thanks Bored. I think I'm just going to go with the USB stick. I can't find anything about the slot reader either and I'm getting a bit agitated with everything at this point anyway. But that Samsung SSD makes sense too. It's not much more... but whatever. I don't know... I like the permanance of the SSD vs having my entire software package simply plugged into the back. I just gotta get my head around that more I guess. It just seems so odd to me. Either way, I'm overthinking everything at this point. I'm gonna just make a game time decision.

You've been a big help... I appreciate it.

I would just get a small SSD too.

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I would just get a small SSD too.

I do too, but Sandisk Extreme usb 3.0 is almost as fast as SSD.

For my home NAS build I had to use OS boot from usb device since I used all available (6) sata ports for the storage hard-drives - if this is not a concern ssd is good way to go.

 

[itschris]

I would just get a small SSD too.

Yeah I ordered it. I was trying to explain this all to my wife... the dilemma in my mind. She literally said, "Think about your income in terms of an hourly wage. Now think how much you spent over the past couple of days deciding on this. More importantly, think about how much you cost your stereo buddies."

Now for the funny part... "Its $50 or $60 difference. Who cares if it's a Crash Drive or a CDC Stick?!!! Pick one and leave everyone alone." I then made the mistake of correcting her, explaining, "You mean Flash Stick or SSD Drive." Which then went into the "little girl" comment.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I do too, but Sandisk Extreme usb 3.0 is almost as fast as SSD.

For my home NAS build I had to use OS boot from usb device since I used all available (6) sata ports for the storage hard-drives - if this is not a concern ssd is good way to go.

I bought those PCI and PCIe sata port cards to give me a total of 16 sata (15 sata for 15 2TB HDD + 1 sata for SDD for the OS).

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Yeah I ordered it. I was trying to explain this all to my wife... the dilemma in my mind. She literally said, "Think about your income in terms of an hourly wage. Now think how much you spent over the past couple of days deciding on this. More importantly, think about how much you cost your stereo buddies."

Now for the funny part... "Its $50 or $60 difference. Who cares if it's a Crash Drive or a CDC Stick?!!! Pick one and leave everyone alone." I then made the mistake of correcting her, explaining, "You mean Flash Stick or SSD Drive." Which then went into the "little girl" comment.

Yeah, a lot of the price differences is NOT really worth stressing over. A trip to McDonalds is $10 for one person.

I have 1 SSD OS for my 30TB NAS, 1 SSD OS for my HTPC1, and 1 SSD OS for my HTPC2.

 

[itschris]

Yeah, a lot of the price differences is NOT really worth stressing over. A trip to McDonalds is $10 for one person.

I have 1 SSD OS for my 30TB NAS, 1 SSD OS for my HTPC1, and 1 SSD OS for my HTPC2.

I'm going to have to talk to you about your NAS box in detail down the road, but have a couple of quick questions:

1) how many drives
2) are using the onboard controller or seperate RAID card
3) what level of RAID
4) does your system see one monster drive? ( i guess that somewhat depends on #3)

How long did it take you to rip all your BDs?

 

[BoredSysAdmin]

I bought those PCI and PCIe sata port cards to give me a total of 16 sata (15 sata for 15 2TB HDD + 1 sata for SDD for the OS).

Something like this:
Dell PowerEdge PERC 5i SAS 256MB RAID Controller with Cables Battery MX961 Z | eBay ?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I'm going to have to talk to you about your NAS box in detail down the road, but have a couple of quick questions:

1) how many drives
2) are using the onboard controller or seperate RAID card
3) what level of RAID
4) does your system see one monster drive? ( i guess that somewhat depends on #3)

How long did it take you to rip all your BDs?

15 HDDs (2TB each HDD) + 1 SSD = 16 total hard drives

Onboard MB sata + Raid cards. Each Raid card has 4 sata ports. I bought them on Amazon. I think around $30 each card.

Raid 0.

Computer sees 16 drives.

BD ripping about 1 hr per disc.