Hot Separates System Recommendation Tip

[Doug917]

Got my 755's tonight.... Spectacular! I am hearing things in movies I have never heard before. The clarity is amazing compared to the internal amps of the 2500. The bass and midrange are much tighter as well. The highs are not bright, which was one of my concerns with the Klipsch horns. I got everything I had hoped for and none of the side effects I was worried about. This setup is dead quiet as well. I will write more later, but I am going to tinker and play for a while.

 

[gene]

Mulester;

that signal/noise rating of 118 says you've got QUALITY from entrance to exit....that damping factor of 850 from 10-400 hz is huge also....most amps have a damping factor of around 150-200....McIntosh stays around 100 for the warmness, now think on and off the voice-coil LESS quickly....compression-effect-base....I'll go for transparent live presence clean and clear....which, this 755 would be....to go to this from a surround receiver with 120 per would be nice....I would love to hear it....does it have a fan onboard?....and....

I noticed some misconceptions in your post and thought I would address them.

1) Damping Factor - this is somewhat of a nebulous spec, especially since most manufacturers don't tell you how they measure (ie loading conditions, frequency, etc). Be careful when trying to compare these numbers with different manufacturers. Also a damping factor above 50 for full bandwidth is pretty meaningless in how it will translate to sound when comparing two different amps. Read: The Truth About Damping Factor In Power Amps for more information on this topic.

2) Signal to Noise Ratio - again becareful at how this is rated (ie. at what power level, what weighing is used, etc)?

For example, most amp companies will rate SNR at full power rather than at 1 watt for a boasted #. Thus if you are comparing a 100watt amp to a 200 watt amp the 200 watt amp will have 6dB edge over the 100 watt amp which is why all amps need to be compared at the same power level, usually 1 watt. Weighing the measurement will also affect the result. Some use no weighing at all (I like this method which is what I use, others use A-weighing which can yield around 6-10dB better than the unweighted response, measuring digital amps is a whole other animal where very specific filtering networks to minimize out of band switching noises is essential).

I hope this helps clarifiy some issues.

 

[mulester7]

Mulester;I noticed some misconceptions in your post and thought I would address them.

1) Damping Factor - this is somewhat of a nebulous spec, especially since most manufacturers don't tell you how they measure (ie loading conditions, frequency, etc). Be careful when trying to compare these numbers with different manufacturers. Also a damping factor above 50 for full bandwidth is pretty meaningless in how it will translate to sound when comparing two different amps. Read: The Truth About Damping Factor In Power Amps for more information on this topic.

2) Signal to Noise Ratio - again becareful at how this is rated (ie. at what power level, what weighing is used, etc)?

For example, most amp companies will rate SNR at full power rather than at 1 watt for a boasted #. Thus if you are comparing a 100watt amp to a 200 watt amp the 200 watt amp will have 6dB edge over the 100 watt amp which is why all amps need to be compared at the same power level, usually 1 watt. Weighing the measurement will also affect the result. Some use no weighing at all (I like this method which is what I use, others use A-weighing which can yield around 6-10dB better than the unweighted response, measuring digital amps is a whole other animal where very specific filtering networks to minimize out of band switching noises is essential).

I hope this helps clarifiy some issues.

.....thanks Gene, but I've heard this many times....the real deal is when your friend walks in to hear your system, and says the presence sounds like Bose....sure, that's what he has, but he just paid your amps a compliment....not plugging Bose, either, that has little to no imaging......

 

[Doug917]

I posted many more of my thoughts and opinions in the write your own review section of the forum after playing with the Outlaw/Yammy combo all day.

 

[Rÿche 1]

Inexpensive?

3k is inexpensive? lol

 

[toquemon]

3k is inexpensive? lol

Inexpensive compared to a $20,000 Halcro monoblock amp, i guess.

 

[thxgoon]

Got my 755's tonight.... Spectacular! I am hearing things in movies I have never heard before. The clarity is amazing compared to the internal amps of the 2500. The bass and midrange are much tighter as well. The highs are not bright, which was one of my concerns with the Klipsch horns. I got everything I had hoped for and none of the side effects I was worried about. This setup is dead quiet as well. I will write more later, but I am going to tinker and play for a while.

I'm glad you're enjoying your new amp. I went through the same thing a year ago. I just can't get enough. Now I can't wait for a new pre/pro. Hopefully this Christmas I'd be curious to hear what you think now a month or so later.

 

[thxgoon]

For example, most amp companies will rate SNR at full power rather than at 1 watt for a boasted #. Thus if you are comparing a 100watt amp to a 200 watt amp the 200 watt amp will have 6dB edge over the 100 watt amp which is why all amps need to be compared at the same power level, usually 1 watt.

Gene, if you are still paying attention to this thread. Why would the difference give a 6db difference? Twice the power = 3db right? What am I missing? Thanks.

 

[gene]

Gene, if you are still paying attention to this thread. Why would the difference give a 6db difference? Twice the power = 3db right? What am I missing? Thanks.

6dB voltage difference [20*log[(V2/V1)]

3 dB power difference [10*log(P2/P1)]

typically when you measure/publish SNR its with respect to a certain voltage level so that is why I related to the 6dB difference. By simply working the power #'s into terms for voltage (P = V^2/R) while doing the calculations.

 

[frankf]

seperates

Folks;

We are seeing a lot of emails from people asking for a good inexpensive separates solution which prompted me to make a recommendation I am very confident is hard to beat for the money.

1) Yamaha RX-V2500 used as a Pre/Pro $1100
2) Emotiva MPS-1 7CH Power amp $2000

for around $3k you have a killer separates solution with power to drive most speakers to insane levels, great processing from Yamaha, and a very dynamic, low noise floor solution.

I have done two installs with this system and it worked phenomenally well. The preamp section of the RX-V2500 is very clean and the synergy between these two components is excellent. I hope this helps.

I HAVE INSTALLED A YAMHAHA RECEIVER 3300. I INTEND TO PURCHASE AN OUTLAW 755 AMPLIFIER 200 WATTS 5 CHANNEL. THEY ARE COMING OUT WITH A NEW AMPLIFIER DUE OUT NEXT YEAR. THEY WILL BE DEMONSTRATING IT AT THE NEXT HT SHOW IN LA. IT IS SUPPOSE TO HAVE TWO SEPERATE AMPLIFIERS IN THE ONE UNIT. GOOD IDEA? WHO KNOWS? THE UNIT IS BEING PRICED AT AROUND $1500.

 

[agarwalro]

Why buy a $1100.00 receiver to use as pre-pro

Using a $1100.00 receiver as a pre-pro... It just seems like... wasted $$$$

I dont understand the reasoning for that. The question is, why cant you get a dedicated pre-pro for that kind of money that does just as good a job if not better? I am sure there are pre-pro's out there in the $1000.00-1500.00 price range that have all the feature in the RXV-2500, and since there are no in built amps in the cost the quality of electronics should be better...

Or am I missing something obvious?

 

[jaxvon]

The problem is, there AREN'T any pre-pro's in that price range that offer the features of the RX-V2500. And now with the advent of the 2600, there's really nothing comparable in features and such. No pre-pro at $1300 has HDMI, auto-EQ, and so many other options. Besides, Yamaha's pre-outs are known to be very quiet and linear.

 

[Doug917]

thxgoon,

I am still very very satisfied with my purchase of the Outlaw 755 amps. I have no plans to upgrade any audio equipment until Yamaha produceds a mid-level receiver that will allow me to run 9.1 (even better 9.2). I can't see any reason I would possibly upgrade the amps, unless one should fail. My next upgrade will be to a fixed 106" 16X9 screen and a projector with higher resolution than the ScreenPlay 4805 (not that it's a real slouch or anything, I just sit fairly close to the screen).

 

[teloiv]

My Yamaha died - would this have prevented it?

I have a RX-V2500 on loan until my 2600 comes in. I hooked it up and started listening to some music. I am driving 2 Boston VR2 for FL and FR; 2 Boston VR1 in parallel for center (please don't flame me for this); 2 Mirage Omnican for Back surrounds; and 2 Mirage Omni-FX for surrounds.

Listening to a CD in some mode that drives all the speakers, I turned the volume up a bit. It was loud and clean. It was not so loud that my wife and kids complained - which they normally would do.

The 2500 died. Smoke literally came out of the top. I haven't seen this since I killed a car amp 15 years ago.

1. Shouldn't the thing protect itself?

2. Was it the 4-Ohm center speaker load that killed it? I was reassured that the unit could handle this despite the 6-Ohm nameplate?

3. If this was my fault for turning it up too high, should I go the route of adding a spearate amp to prevent this in the future?

3.a. Since 6 of my 8 speakers have a max power handling of 125 Watts, is the Outlaw 7125 enough? Or do I need the 770 or Emotiva MPS-1?

Thanks for any thoughts or condolences.

 

[Doug917]

teloiv,

Sorry to hear of your recent loss. I don't think that the 4 ohm load should have fried the unit, especially at moderate volume levels. If you are considering getting an amp, I would take the 770 over the 7125. It is not a whole lot more and you will not regret it. If you get teh 7125, you'll always be wondering what if. The 770 or the EMO would be more than most should ever need; the 770 is just cheaper.

 

[teloiv]

Doug,

Thanks for the response. Somehow I managed to kill yet another 2500. I feel like someone keeping saltwater fish.

This time there is no way it could have anything to even do with the 4-Ohm load. I was playing a CD and using 2-Channel mode. It just quit. I have double-checked all of my connections for shorts or anything suspicious. I am using regular 10-Gauge speaker wire - 25 feet tops. Solid connections on all ends. Incoming signal is via Denon DVD-2910 optical. Power is dedicated 20-Amp circuit being fed though APC-s15.

I played with the unit some yesterday and watched the power draw on the APC. Based on my observations, I would say the unit was drawing approx 250W when it quit. (Assuming you figure the APC is remotely accurate with these measurements.)

I'm just gonna say the amp section of this unit can't do what I want it to do. So I'll buy a dedicated amp.

So here's the 3 choices:

Outlaw 770 @ $1600
Emotiva MPS-1 @ $2000
B&K 200.7 S2 @ $2200 (this is floor model from Tweeter)

Is there any real difference between these units?

 

[DVDIT]

After reading this thread I am torn between upgrading to this receiver from my HK AVR 330 or keep the HK as a pre/pro and get an external 3 channel used 150W@8 ohms amp I was thinking about. My speakers are 86db sensitive. I have HSU STF-2 sub. My main objective is to move to the next level up in sound quality. I listen at moderate level. Room is 12 x 24x 8 with the 20' one side opening that leads to a sitting area. Used for 90% HT with Infocus 4805 PJ and 76" screen. I would appreciate any input.

BTW, my local authorized Yamaha dealer is letting me have this receiver for $599.00. He has only one left and holding it for me for only a few hours so I need to decide fast. The external amp I am considering are three Audiosource AMP ONE/A bridged mono to drive the front three speakers.

 

[tdeluce]

I have a Denon AVR-4802 and six 4 ohm Polk Audio
speakes. Besides tripping into protection mode a few
times when listening at close to reference levels, I
thought it sounded great. I bought three 300 watt ( into
4 ohm ) Outlaw Audio monoblocks ( M2200s ) to drive
my LCR. I use my Denon to drive my surrounds. The
difference is HUGE. I am hearing things in movies that I
never heard before. The sound is crystal clean with much
fullness. I still can't get over the difference. I am now
sold on separates.

Can't wait to see what Denon offers aa a separate pre-pro
and hopefully a really nice high powered clean 3 channel
AMP for my LCR ( will then move the Outlaws to drive
my surrounds ).

On the othe hand, if I can get similiar pre/pro processing
on a 48xx receiver, then I may buy that and continue
with my existing scenario. It will be interesting to see
how much better a completely separate solution is because
at this point I am really wondering how it could sound
better

 

[mulester7]

I bought three 300 watt ( into
4 ohm ) Outlaw Audio monoblocks ( M2200s ) to drive
my LCR. I use my Denon to drive my surrounds. The
difference is HUGE. I am hearing things in movies that I
never heard before. The sound is crystal clean with much
fullness. I still can't get over the difference. I am now
sold on separates

.....aaahh yes, I see that hand, haha.....TDeluce, can you say, that, which you are now hearing, has seemingly come to life?....do you feel more of an involvement emotionally?....more body movement, chill-bumps, and such?....does it seem, you have moved MUCH closer, to the recorded group's live speakers?....

 

[mulester7]

My speakers are 86db sensitive

.....DVDIT, that should settle your dilemma as to where to upgrade for sound quality....try the watts-continuous on your front three channels....you'll keep your current receiver.....and welcome to Audioholics.com....Clint's site....Clint took on a young lad named Gene a few years ago as kitchen-help....the lad learned fast....started fixing electrical components in the kitchen....moved up....only in America.....