Hot Separates System Recommendation Tip

[conchyjoe]

good one Jaxvon...oh and Geoh, maybe you should have your hearing checked. If you've had more pre/pros, receivers and amps than you care to admit in all price ranges and still aren't happy, and still have never found one that blows away another...then maybe there is a hearing problem. Just start with Q tips though; they're relatively inexpensive...In many ways I wish I had your problem, I could then be happy with a $30.00 DVD player, a $149.00 receiver and a $399.00 5.1 speaker system...God would life be easy...not to mention cheap! "Blow away" is merely an expression of admiration and should be taken in that concept and context of comparison, and yes I HAVE found many combos that "blow away" others in all price ranges. My humble opinion doesn't equate with yours?! Who cares? We both have one and the ability and right to express them!
Cheers and good listening

 

[acoustic]

I built a high end/low price surround system...

I too used to have a 170 WPC Denon 58** receiver and could never get it to sound the way I wanted, that being analog and warm even using it as a pre and using my Krell monos on the fronts. I started researching pre pros and bought a used B&K REF 50 on A'gon for $1300.00 I then purchased two Odyssey Stratos amps from Klauss http://www.odysseyaudio.com/ a two chanel and a three chanel and have never looked back. Denon says their receiver was 170 WPC but I have gobs more power in my 150 WPC Odyssey amps??? Who's misleading who? Either the Osyssey amps are very very conservatively rated or Denon is blowing smoke! The total cost for both amps was around $2500.00 so for $3800.00 I have a very sweet sounding multi chanel system that I paid less for than I did for my Denon. The Denon is not even in the same county as the Odyssey/B&K combo let alone the same room. The difference is like a chevy malibu and a BMW 7 series it's that dramatic. The Odyssey / B&K combo forced me to sell my Krell two chanel amps and buy an Odyssey dual mono set up for my two chanel room. I my estimation no amp can touch the warmth, detail, soundstage & imaging I get from my Odyssey amps at even three times the price. Hell I sold my Krell's and bought the dual mono Odyssey's a new sub and a new tube pre for my two chanel room and still had money left over! I strongly recomend talking to Klauss before you consider buying any power amp. He will not build a five chanel amp because he says to build it right it would be over two feet tall! But you can get a two and a three chanel amp for less than most "under currented" big name amps.. If you are truly after sound quality amps are very important!!!! I would rather use a dedicated pre pro than a receiver as a pre pro due to the noise generated by the powersupply for amplification. My sound floor is now so low I actually turn off my flourecent indirect lighting when listening.....

 

[Audioholics]

I too used to have a 170 WPC Denon 58** receiver and could never get it to sound the way I wanted, that being analog and warm even using it as a pre and using my Krell monos on the fronts. I started researching pre pros and bought a used B&K REF 50 on A'gon for $1300.00 I then purchased two Odyssey Stratos amps from Klauss http://www.odysseyaudio.com/ a two chanel and a three chanel and have never looked back. Denon says their receiver was 170 WPC but I have gobs more power in my 150 WPC Odyssey amps??? Who's misleading who? Either the Osyssey amps are very very conservatively rated or Denon is blowing smoke! The total cost for both amps was around $2500.00 so for $3800.00 I have a very sweet sounding multi chanel system that I paid less for than I did for my Denon. The Denon is not even in the same county as the Odyssey/B&K combo let alone the same room. The difference is like a chevy malibu and a BMW 7 series it's that dramatic. The Odyssey / B&K combo forced me to sell my Krell two chanel amps and buy an Odyssey dual mono set up for my two chanel room. I my estimation no amp can touch the warmth, detail, soundstage & imaging I get from my Odyssey amps at even three times the price. Hell I sold my Krell's and bought the dual mono Odyssey's a new sub and a new tube pre for my two chanel room and still had money left over! I strongly recomend talking to Klauss before you consider buying any power amp. He will not build a five chanel amp because he says to build it right it would be over two feet tall! But you can get a two and a three chanel amp for less than most "under currented" big name amps.. If you are truly after sound quality amps are very important!!!! I would rather use a dedicated pre pro than a receiver as a pre pro due to the noise generated by the powersupply for amplification. My sound floor is now so low I actually turn off my flourecent indirect lighting when listening.....

Hmmm... and was this before or after you added the MIT cables which you indicated so drastically affected the sound?

 

[gene]

Hmmm... and was this before or after you added the MIT cables which you indicated so drastically affected the sound?

Sounds like you could have saved money using a tone control or EQ or address room acoustics.

 

[acoustic]

Clint & Gene

I A/B all my cable purchases and go through my bucket of misc wire to try and find the best A/B fit for my current set up (I'm constantly changing set ups around between my four systems). Currently I'm in the process of breaking in a set of ONIX REF 1's that I will be using in my multi chanel system as rears. Even on my non broken in REF1's I can hear the difference in cables. I tried a set of Silver speaker wire (home made braid w/ WBT connectors), some old Audioquest (can't remember the name but they are navy blue with solid twisted copper not braided perhaps Midnight?) and the MIT 750's. In most of my systems the MIT works great but not all. I'm using a 15' of Mogami Gold XLR's for my subs that only cost $32.00.... I know you guys think it's all snake oil but different equipment responds diffenently to diferent interconnects. If the MIT changes the signal so be it but I like the way it sounds in certain situations.. One thing I know for sure is that I have paid a lot more than I should have for equipment bought from boutique shops when I can by as good if not better quality direct from the manufacturer. I think my 802's will be the next to go I can buy a lot of new stuff with that money. Things that don't work or don't improve the sound in blinded testing get sent back really quickly.

 

[gene]

Nobody is denying cables can sound different. However, only poorly designed cables are sonically distinguisable. My point was you should address more obvious issues with your system/room and not try to resolve issues with cable magic.

Its likely that the amp you purchased handles low impedance loads better than your Denon receiver did which explains why it may sound better or more dynamic to you. Depending on your speakers this may or may not matter. Obviously in your case it did.

 

[Audioholics]

Note: Split cable discussion to different thread...

 

[pikers]

The rx-2500 is already a bargain pre/pro with a decent amp thrown in for free, all the more reason to use it for 2 or 4 surrounds and add a seperate 3 channel amp for the front 3 where it counts. Thus maximizing every dollar you spend and not every watt drawn from your plug in.

I thought surround sound had something to do with let me think... The surrounds? Putting all of your money into the front may be great for two channel, but ignoring the surrounds means spending the same amount for a lesser result in surround.

 

[pikers]

Hmmm... and was this before or after you added the MIT cables which you indicated so drastically affected the sound?

i like the part about the flourescent lights. I your noise floor was that high before the swap, I wouldn't blame the Denon. I'd blame the guy who wired your house!

 

[gene]

the amp section in the 2500 is more than capable of powering most surround speakers. People typically drive the amp sections harder for stereo since only 2 sources are producing the sound, you sit further away from the front speakers, and you have to turn the amp up louder. In addition, the front speakers are usually more power hungry, especially if running full range, it makes sense to prioritize for those channels.

 

[pikers]

the amp section in the 2500 is more than capable of powering most surround speakers. People typically drive the amp sections harder for stereo since only 2 sources are producing the sound, you sit further away from the front speakers, and you have to turn the amp up louder. In addition, the front speakers are usually more power hungry, especially if running full range, it makes sense to prioritize for those channels.

Prioritize yes, but perhaps doing it the right way the first time might be more economical

"Buy on price, buy it twice."

 

[pikers]

Nobody is denying cables can sound different. However, only poorly designed cables are sonically distinguisable. My point was you should address more obvious issues with your system/room and not try to resolve issues with cable magic.

Agreed, keeping in mind that interconnects are electrical connections, and interaction with one system may be slightly different that with another...

 

[briansmith]

Why not?
The balanced designed AT2007 would just be a bonus, maybe for future use sometime down the line. You could use a RCA to XLR cable for hookup between receiver and amp, but that would probably only benefit with a long cable run.
In reality any good 7 channel amp would yield pretty much the same results. Or,
why not just use a good 3 channel amp to drive the front stage and let the 56TXi's amps drive the surrounds.

geoh

I to would go w/ the ATI over the AV123 amp. The ATI is balanced from input to output, weighs a ton, and has more output.

 

[Doug917]

I had to cancel my order for an MPS-1 with AV123 because my wife lost her job. I have since came into some extra work and have two 5-channel Model 755 amps from Outlaw on order. I want enough amplification for 9.2 so the 7-channel MPS-1 was not enough. I will order a M200 monoblock from Outlaw when I can afford it to get the last channel I need. I couldn't pass the 755's up with the latest price drop due to a new model arriving soon. I chose the 5-channel amps over their 7-channel, because it looks like they use the same transformers in both and the individual modules are more spaced out in the 5-channel model. I figure this should give the 5-channel units an edge on channel separation and available power. I'll let you all know how the Outlaws sound with the Yammy 2500 as a pre/pro.

 

[mulester7]

I had to cancel my order for an MPS-1 with AV123 because my wife lost her job. I have since came into some extra work and have two 5-channel Model 755 amps from Outlaw on order. I want enough amplification for 9.2 so the 7-channel MPS-1 was not enough. I will order a M200 monoblock from Outlaw when I can afford it to get the last channel I need. I couldn't pass the 755's up with the latest price drop due to a new model arriving soon. I chose the 5-channel amps over their 7-channel, because it looks like they use the same transformers in both and the individual modules are more spaced out in the 5-channel model. I figure this should give the 5-channel units an edge on channel separation and available power. I'll let you all know how the Outlaws sound with the Yammy 2500 as a pre/pro.

.....Doug, how many watts times 5 is the 755 rated at 8 ohms?.....

 

[jaxvon]

Mule, it's 5x200watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4. Here's the product page.

 

[mulester7]

Mule, it's 5x200watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4. Here's the product page.

.....thanks, Jaxvon, I just got back over here to check....300 at 4, ok....and it's how much?....oh, you posted a product link, I'll go look for the price.....

 

[mulester7]

Mule, it's 5x200watts into 8 ohms, 300 into 4. Here's the product page.

.....I believe I've heard it said the 755 is about 2,000....that signal/noise rating of 118 says you've got QUALITY from entrance to exit....that damping factor of 850 from 10-400 hz is huge also....most amps have a damping factor of around 150-200....McIntosh stays around 100 for the warmness, now think on and off the voice-coil LESS quickly....compression-effect-base....I'll go for transparent live presence clean and clear....which, this 755 would be....to go to this from a surround receiver with 120 per would be nice....I would love to hear it....does it have a fan onboard?....and....

.....bear in mind, $1800 would get you an inaudibly-clean, and transparent, 6 channels of 500 at 8 with QSC RMX....the fans are on the back for goodness sakes.....hey, the specs on the 755 are sterling....the spec flaws with QSC are inaudible....and I'd for sure swap about 500 points of damping factor for 500 watt headroom....hands down....just pitching an opinion or two.....

 

[brian32672]

The 777 Outlaw is a consideration here, but for the price I could get 7 Outlaw 200's cheaper....

Outlaw 777 http://outlawaudio.com/products/770_gallery2.html

The Sherbourn amp that was given away here was nice as well..
Honestly what I am looking for is about 7x200 all in one amp.
However all the ones I find that are decent are out of my price range
most are 2500.00 and up. I could not go any higher than 1500.00 (edit: and that would be on payment schedule)
(Would really not want to go higher than about 1200 shipped)
So I may have to wait a few years for new models to come out...

EDIT::: Just rechecked the price of the 777 and I am sure it must have went down. Its now at 1600.00 plus shipping.....Hmm.
Maybe eBay in a year.........

 

[Doug917]

Mulester,

The 755 does not use fans, only heat sinks. I'm going to end up with 10 channels at 200 at 8 Ohms for ~$2400 shipped.

Brian,

The outlaw amps are being discounted now due to new models coming out soon. When they are gone at this price, they are gone. Outlaw states on one of their pages, the replacement amps will be about $400 more than the discounted ones. This was a big help in my cause... "Honey, if I don't buy these amps now, they will end up costing me about a grand more later." She seemed okay with this.