Hijack posts from Hsu/SVS thread...

[mike c]

furrycute, you must mean those other people but ...

craig already has the dd-18 ... and the ep600 ... and the ... and the ...

 

[furrycute]

Good for him. I say get a second DD-18 and be done with anymore sub upgrades once and for all!

furrycute, you must mean those other people but ...

craig already has the dd-18 ... and the ep600 ... and the ... and the ...

 

[mike c]

well, sometimes I think the journey is better than the destination.

i.e. buy me the dd-18 now, and I won't appreciate it ... as much as I would if I first got my JBL sub, then the Velo CHT, then if I get my ep500 working before I get my dd-15

craig has reached his destination via concorde jet and is now backtracking all the things he missed along the way.

 

[Ajax]

For the record, I never called CraigSub a liar. I did accuse him of babyish behavior (referring to his reaction to Ilkka's presence). I did question his graphs. My post was definitely inflamatory and rude, but I was irked by the way Craig was seemingly unable to take criticism. What I had failed to take into account was the history between him and Ilkka that dictated his actions.

My points were as follows:

1. Craig should be more immune to criticism, espeically if it's from someone that has bothered him in the past.
2. The measurements of the Hsu products didn't fit the paradigm of normal Hsu performance. I would like to know why.
3. The graphs were indeed showing a low resolution and I thought that it would be good to get higher resolution ones.

I feel that these are all reasonable requests. Also, as I have pointed out in a PM to another user here that accused me of having some agenda, I must stress that I have no such agenda. I cannot speak for Ilkka or Maniac Miner. I do personally own a Hsu product (STF-1). The reason I questioned the measurements is that the Hsu graph seems to have some pretty big nonlinearities. Hsu subs are known for their flat and accurate response. Just as if one would question a frequency response graph from a B&W Nautilus with big humps, I questioned the Hsu graph.

Ilkka, I supported your choice to question Craig's measurements because I too felt there was something "off" and that some explanation about techniques was warranted. However, if you are going to be a post-whore and seemingly post inflamatory things for the hell of it, I'd rather you not post. Igniting a flame war is NOT productive.

Loved this post, Jaxvon. Being another "jax," I appreciate your well reasoned, reasonable take on things.

None of we who have sided with Craig object to questions about, or challenges to, Craig's, or anyone's, numbers. What we find objectionable is the manner in which the 2 primary miscreants, who pathologically and peripatetically dog Craig wherever he goes (a psychiatrist could have a field day with that ), are incapable of asking or questioning in a helpful way. Their malice overfloweth.

It is their consistent malicious attacks, their relentless agenda of denigration and insult, that has proved excessively disputatious. Then, when reasonably taken to task by those of us who are weary of their slurs and disruptions, they throw up their hands, whip a little halo out of their pockets, and piously complain that those who object to their pejorative insults are "thin-skinned." Fortunately, it is readily apparent the vast majority of those here see through their prevarication.

 

[Adil M]

Thanks for this thread guys.
It's a monument to stupidity.
I must say I read the whole thing in one sitting and since I know the AVS history I was laughing so hard it brought tears.
It's like those Southpark Star Trek nerds arguing.

 

[Ajax]

LOL! Speaking of stupidity, YOU read the whole thing didn't you? And then you posted in it didn't you?

 

[MacManNM]

Craig,
A subjective disclaimer needs to be placed with these measurements. Not only for the reasons we talked about in a few PM’s, but for other reasons pointed out in this thread (in some rare instances of decent intellect) as well. The focus on the subjective is most valuable. You have many subs, and can give a good descriptive dissertation of the ones you are testing. Accurate NIST traceable calibrations are very difficult to accomplish, and this is the type of measurement people think they are seeing. Let’s get a little less technical and a little more subjective.

For all you new guy’s starting crap, lay off. The guy is trying to provide a service for everyone. Is it perfect? No, but it’s the best that has been done thus far, and he should be commended for it.

 

[Manic Miner]

Wow! This thread is getting more action then the shootout thread.

I feel the need to correct a few misunderstandings


I did not crash the shootout thread. I made two posts there, both positive and basically I asked if we could move along.

Craig loves to call anyone who dares oppose him liars. I would love it if he could point out a single lie from me, and good luck with it.

This is a great example of Craigs true personality

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=166109&postcount=98

For new readers: What I and Ilkka and others have been doing for some time is commenting upon the breaches in logic that Craigs subwoofer comparisions are filled with. As you can see it is not an easy task because Craig is not called "The Teflon Man" for nothing, and he has a loyal following backing him up.

So basically, as long as Craig follows logic, nothing happens. When he gets a bit creative someone will raise his hand and ask a question knowing that Craig will get furious "How dare you question me, I am Craig!", call the person in question a liar, and as a new development he now wants them removed from his classroom.

Craig has been asked a question or two about some inaccuracies in this shootout already, and he has responded with his usual act. I suggest that we move on, and maybe some new questions will emerge along the way.

 

[Ilkka]

Ilkka, I used to have great respect for your posts. Now I'm not so sure anymore. What's up with the flaming/name calling? I get the impression you and Ed Mullen tend to agree on principle, but I NEVER see Ed posting like you do lately.

Manic- a troll that should be ignored by all. Really, go get laid, will ya?

Jeff,

As I already said in the "main" thread, I humbly aplogize for some things I said yesterday. I was also offended by the actions and posts by the OP and certain members of this forums, and in that kind of state of mind people can say some things they shouldn't say. That's not typical for me as you said.

 

[Ilkka]

Wow! This thread is getting more action then the shootout thread.

I feel the need to correct a few misunderstandings


I did not crash the shootout thread. I made two posts there, both positive and basically I asked if we could move along.

Craig loves to call anyone who dares oppose him liars. I would love it if he could point out a single lie from me, and good luck with it.

This is a great example of Craigs true personality

http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=166109&postcount=98

For new readers: What I and Ilkka and others have been doing for some time is commenting upon the breaches in logic that Craigs subwoofer comparisions are filled with. As you can see it is not an easy task because Craig is not called "The Teflon Man" for nothing, and he has a loyal following backing him up.

So basically, as long as Craig follows logic, nothing happens. When he gets a bit creative someone will raise his hand and ask a question knowing that Craig will get furious "How dare you question me, I am Craig!", call the person in question a liar, and as a new development he now wants them removed from his classroom.

Craig has been asked a question or two about some inaccuracies in this shootout already, and he has responded with his usual act. I suggest that we move on, and maybe some new questions will emerge along the way.

ManicMiner,

Great post and definitely sums up A LOT of things that have happened in the last few months.

If someone dares to call this man a troll, I can't help but laugh and actually feel sorry, because he has clearly missed the last train of objectionality. It's remarkable how blind we can be sometimes.

 

[craigsub]

Craig,
A subjective disclaimer needs to be placed with these measurements. Not only for the reasons we talked about in a few PM’s, but for other reasons pointed out in this thread (in some rare instances of decent intellect) as well. The focus on the subjective is most valuable. You have many subs, and can give a good descriptive dissertation of the ones you are testing. Accurate NIST traceable calibrations are very difficult to accomplish, and this is the type of measurement people think they are seeing. Let’s get a little less technical and a little more subjective.

For all you new guy’s starting crap, lay off. The guy is trying to provide a service for everyone. Is it perfect? No, but it’s the best that has been done thus far, and he should be commended for it.

John, Not only do I agree with you about the disclaimer, I have done so several times - those three measurements were strictly for fun. If everyone who owns a subwoofer, and likes it, were to go around his room and take measurements of the FR ... he would be doing one of these ...

My next upgrade personally will hopefully be the new SMS-1 upgrade from Velodyne - 5 microphone positions will be plotted. Looks like a killer $1000 upgrade.

I am also working on two sub designs - the first will be based on an 18 inch design. Ported. Think output of 3 DD-18's at 20 Hz.

Not available for sale in Finland ...

 

[vinyl]

It's remarkable how blind we can be sometimes.

One area where I’m 20/20 is in your association with the SVS badge – one would truly be blind not to see that.

 

[Ilkka]

One area where I’m 20/20 is in your association with the SVS badge – one would truly be blind not to see that.

I don't understand how I have promoted SVS lately? As I said in the main thread, SVS actually looks more flatter (maybe even more than it should) and it's the HSU which I'm conserned of. Is it impossible that we would want BOTH to perform good? We already know the weaknesses and strengths of the Ultra, I would be interested to find out HSU's.

 

[vinyl]

I don't understand how I have promoted SVS lately?

Lately? More like always, and the "proofs" is in the constant pudding you serve up every time the XYZ name is mentioned, you do this on every board in cyberspace - you are the assigned hatchet man, with sole purpose to confuse and place doubt on any product that may rival XYZ or a product that comes along that might acquire a little too much chatter.

 

[masak_aer]

Ahhhh..finally, i reached the end of this thread, i spent almost 2 hours digesting all the graphs, flame wars, and such...Now i need a break...

 

[Audioholics]

Now i need a break...

Or a shower. lol

 

[fergusonv]

Iikka I see you only have 62 posts so I took the liberty of looking over your previous posts here at audioholics... of the 62 only one of them was productive in any way and that was your Finish Shootout thread. Appears to me the only reason your here is to discredit and argue with Craig and I have seen enough of that from you on AVS. Why don't you just bow out gracefully and leave. Audioholics dosent need someone like you coming here just to start trouble.

 

[vinyl]

After the Cold Shower I'll Continue.....

Producing a good product as well as being an popular Internet only brand is simply not enough for XYZ – the strategy is to discredit, disprove, destroy any worthy contender that might be climbing up the hill, it’s a lot easier to discredit them rather than compete with the new implementations, such as the digital products becoming more accurate and sophisticated – this is an area XYZ lags far behind.

The service Ilkka provides in cyberspace is invaluable and much in need to maintain the attained status, while converting the uninitiated.

Personally my intelligence on this charade has been taxed too many times over time and I speak for many regardless of brand.

 

[Manic Miner]

This is one of the things that puzzels me. How come it is not possible to discuss subwoofers without dragging SVS into it, and blaming them for everything gone wrong?

I think that SVS are very good at a couple of things, namely:

Long stroke drivers At any given price point they will outstroke the competition, and therefore they are also able to deliver higher SPL in the bottom octave, this is simple physics.

Finish They will give you real wood at price points were the competition has settled for vinyl

I have said this over at AVS, but I will say it one more time. I think that the competitors are starting to wake up, and that the HO is the first result of this. If I were out shopping for a sub today the HO would probably have been on my shortlist of candidates, but since real wood finish is important to my girlfriend I probably would have bought the sub I have today all over again (PB12 Plus)

 

[RMK!]

Iikka I see you only have 62 posts so I took the liberty of looking over your previous posts here at audioholics... of the 62 only one of them was productive in any way and that was your Finish Shootout thread. Appears to me the only reason your here is to discredit and argue with Craig and I have seen enough of that from you on AVS. Why don't you just bow out gracefully and leave. Audioholics dosent need someone like you coming here just to start trouble.

He won't leave as he is on a mission (stalker is an apt description). Put him on your Ignore List, works great. In fact, my new rule of thumb is if they are Scandinavian and not tall, blonde and female they automatically go on the Ignore List