Hijack posts from Hsu/SVS thread...

[Ilkka]

Please leave Ilkka, for the sake of all the individuals that are interested in this thread. The data speaks for it's self wether it is 1/6 or 1/24, it still shows what both subs will typically do without EQing.

I know craig doesn't need defending but this isn't for him, it's for everyone else that's SICK of you hounding others about silly details or misc crap (please don't defend yourself, there's no need)

Please Ilkka, sit this one out. The next thread is all yours.

JR

Sorry, but I don't get your point? 5-15 dB difference in 20-60 Hz range is silly detail or misc crap?

 

[BMO]

Ilkka,
Get your hands on a VTF 3 HO with turbo. Do your own review.We will be more than happy to read your also....
I understand NASA is planning another Moon walk.It might be a great place for you to do your testing.

 

[spyboy]

Ilkka

With all due respect, this might be a good time to take a 6 week vacation...from this thread. Your accusations are much more disruptive than helpful.

Craig Chase is spending a lot of his own money and time to try to present as fair as possible comparison of the HO and Ultra. Whether 1/6 or 1/24, they are both on the same playing field.

It seems clear to me that Craig is giving the Ultra equal treatment and that his observations on both subs are reasonable and helpful.

I seriously ask you to take a break from this thread so that those of us who want Craig to continue posting can benefit from his hard work.

Again, with all due respect, please walk away for now.

Thank You

 

[Ajax]

Once again, this person's malicious lack of ethics has reared its ugly head. His agenda is transparent. His behavior is disgraceful, and he has become a boil on the nether regions of this wonderful hobby. How sad.

 

[Duffman-OOHYEAH]

Sorry, but I don't get your point? 5-15 dB difference in 20-60 Hz range is silly detail or misc crap?

Why exactly do we need you to point out the obvious?? We all have eyes here and can read the graphs. Sit this one out Ilkka, you're not adding any value to this discussion.


JR

 

[Ilkka]

Craig Chase is spending a lot of his own money and time to try to present as fair as possible comparison of the HO and Ultra. Whether 1/6 or 1/24, they are both on the same playing field.

Like I said, this is a great thread and wonderful effort from Craig.

And the 1/6 vs. 1/24 thing wasn't a big deal. I just noticed it and when called, Craig treatened to have me banned.

The important thing are the frequency responses itself. If you agree that Craig's in-room measurements are correct, I assume that you agree with my GP comparison graph too?

I seriously ask you to take a break from this thread so that those of us who want Craig to continue posting can benefit from his hard work.

Again, with all due respect, please walk away for now.

Thank You

This was expected.

I also know that there are some very smart guys reading this thread too. They are just too affraid to say what they really think. So unfortunately someone has to help them. You guys know who you are.

The guys who have criticized me this far are either die hard HSU fans or Craig's closest friends.

 

[Ilkka]

Why exactly do we need you to point out the obvious?? We all have eyes here and can read the graphs. Sit this one out Ilkka, you're not adding any value to this discussion.


JR

Ok, so what's your take on cause of that difference?

 

[jakeman]

I am not gong to be drawn into a debate with you Ilkka and I do not believe that honesty and fairness are your goals. If you want to do your own “comparo” then do so. Your accusations smack of McCarthyism and casually throwing out terms like liar that can do damage to an individuals reputation should not be tolerated. I would only hope that those viewing this will consider the source.

Well said Robert. Calling the OP a liar is sufficient justification to suspend this individual. His continual low standard of ethical behaviour speaks for itself. Sadly, the behaviour here is typical of what we have endured since last September, lack of civility and decorum for the sake of undermining others and attempts to derail a thread that may run contrary to his biased views.

Nitpicking based on a minor technical view when done respectfully can be insightful. There are several different ways to measure and review subwoofers and speakers all having advantages and limitations which is why I've found its more important to keep an eye and ear on the big picture with respect to performance. Because of weather Craig is limited to in room testing. He has spent a long time to provide us with a fine, fair subjective and objective assessment so far. Its distasteful to see it hijacked this way.

 

[naisphoo]

you threw the first punch mister

you called him a liar didn't you? Please leave...or start your own thread! Get your own subs and do your own comparo...

 

[spyboy]

Not surprisingly, Ilkka is acting like the guest who has overstayed his welcome, been asked to leave, and just doesn't have the grace to do the right thing...

 

[Ilkka]

Sadly, the behaviour here is typical of what we have endured since last September, lack of civility and decorum for the sake of undermining others and attempts to derail a thread that may run contrary to his biased views.

On the contrary John, based on Craig's measurements HSU seems to be far less linear and I want to know what's causing it. The current measurements can't show its true performance. I would expect it to be more linear than the Ultra.

 

[Ajax]

You just don't get it do you Your numbers, right or wrong, do not justify your attacks, insults, and name calling.

The guys who have criticized me this far are either die hard HSU fans or Craig's closest friends.

And you are his committed enemy, and constant detractor. SO?

 

[naisphoo]

The guys who have criticized me this far are either die hard HSU fans or Craig's closest friends.

you're wrong... i have no sub yet and I'm very interesting in the outcome of this comparo as I'm shopping for a sub...and I've never met Craig. I've read a lot of your postings eslwhere and I had the feelings that you're the fanboy. Again get your own subs and start your own thread.

 

[Ilkka]

You just don't get it do you Your numbers, right or wrong, do not justify your attacks, insults, and name calling.

I already tried this with RMK!. Was Craig telling the truth when claiming that those graphs were with 1/24 oct. resolution. Yes or no?

And I don't know what other insults or name calling I have done?

And you are his committed enemy, and constant detractor. SO?

I just meant that I was expecting this from you all. But don't be fooled that there wouldn't be others who don't think alike.

They just aren't as loud as you are.

 

[Manic Miner]

Since this thread is halted I'll make a quick comment.

So far the shootout has been far more logical then some previous comparisions, and for that I'm glad.

I think that Ilkka is making an interesting point, and I can not see how those graphs can be 1/24. Craig is now saying that the graphs are an average of 50 measurements, I don't know if that changes anything, but we probably should have been told this to begin with.

Now, I can not see what good debating this issue any further would do unless Craig and Ilkka would like to make some final statements( without calling each other names, or any psychology 1.1), and leave it to those following the thread to make their own judgement

Peace

 

[jakeman]

On the contrary John, based on Craig's measurements HSU seems to be far less linear and I want to know what's causing it. The current measurements can't show its true performance. I would expect it to be more linear than the Ultra.

We all know that the measurements are in-room at long mic placement so now is not the time to dwell on linearity. Hold your comments for when better conditions allow more accurate measurement of FR. If you were more courteous this nonsense would not happen as much and we wouldn't have as many closed threads. Like Jack said its OK to have a different view and you make some good points occasionally, just don't slander people and get so obnoxious. How can you expect to have an intelligent constructive exchange of ideas when you refer to people as lying? Do the civil thing for a change and leave the thread.

 

[annunaki]

Ilkka,

If you have a problem with what Craig has measured, please start a post in the Steam Vent to call him out. Do not turn HIS thread into a bunch of personal attacks.

For all,

The Steam Vent is intended for these type of situtations (personal attack type issues, flame wars ect.) please use it for such.

 

[Ilkka]

I think that Ilkka is making an interesting point, and I can not see how those graphs can be 1/24. Craig is now saying that the graphs are an average of 50 measurements, I don't know if that changes anything, but we probably should have been told this to begin with.

Now, I can not see what good debating this issue any further would do unless Craig and Ilkka would like to make some final statements( without calling each other names, or any psychology 1.1), and leave it to those following the thread to make their own judgement

Peace

Nice to see you Manic.

No need to call names or anything. I just wanted to point out some things, which I think many of you are missing.

Opening post says "Both subwoofers are level matched, and have comparable in room response curves."

Now we have seen the curves and they show around 5-15 dB difference in 20-60 Hz range. How can that be comparable to anyone? I don't know how much you have listened to different subwoofers, but I can tell you that if two subs have that different in-room responses, they sound totally different. No subtle differences.

Naturally I want this thread to continue and hopefully we see as much info as possible from these two great subs. But let's keep this honest and fair to both contenders.

 

[JonnyOzero3]

Maybe part of this problem is can be attributed to a language barrier - it might have been better to say, "hey craig, maybe you made a mistake...what about this data?" rather than, "you're a liar!"

Calling someone a liar is much more inflammatory and insulting than just insinuating that they've screwed up on a detail or missed something....No matter who is right or wrong in the situation.

Now, I can't wait to finish work and get home to play with my HO!

 

[jakeman]

But let's keep this honest and fair to both contenders.

The presumption in a statement like this one is that the OP has not been fair and honest and therein lies the biggest problem with your posts. I'm bowing out too, you've wrecked another thread.