Help with Streaming Services

[snakeeyes]

All, thank you for taking the time to walk me through this.

SnakeEyes: Speed test is 35MPS. I am running 5.2 for now as well, planning on 5.2.4 in 2019. My concern is my Yamaha 2080 is improperly decoding the atmos signal into 5.2 and I am losing the sub portion of the signal or something else is not right with my settings. If you get good results from that intro scene, I will keep investigating. If you also have poor results, I will attribute it to poor recording and consider my system working properly. Thank you so much, Andrew.

Okay so didn’t get it working yet but here is what happened so far. Jack Ryan on the 4K UHD HDR10 I got 5.1 PCM and no Atmos yet. Lots of other titles I got 2.0 PCM. Will need to research more. I enabled front presence and also rear presence and no change. I could force sound to happen with DSU or NeuralX but that isn’t Atmos.

Then I went to physical discs on the Sony:

For Thor 3 UHD disc, I get Atmos with either front presence or front and rear presence speakers enabled only. Without at least 2 enabled, only Dolby TrueHD, no Atmos.

For Mummy 3 UHD disc, I get DTSX MA in 5.1.2 with front presence enabled and 5.1.4 with front and rear enabled. Interestingly, I get 5.1 DTSX MA with no presence speakers enabled. (Which is cool, actually. )

I’ll have more time another day to research more on the Apple.

 

[snakeeyes]

I’m thinking this could be a setting or a bug on Yamahas with PCM. I found a recent link where the Yamaha user only gets 5.1 but the Denon and Sonys work for another user.

 

[snakeeyes]

I am going to try this Apple support link

https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204069

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok I do have Netflix Atmos working on the Apple 4K as well as the ITunes Atmos (Should have tried that first).

What I’m trying to figure out now is how to watch Prime on Apple 4K for Jack Ryan in Atmos. Mine plays in 5.1 PCM. Is Prime supposed to do Atmos on Apple 4K?

 

[snakeeyes]

As far as I can tell Atmos on the Apple 4K TV is on Netflix and ITunes only. I am not able to get Atmos from Amazon Prime for Jack Ryan. If someone is able to, please chime in...

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok so probably need to use a beta OS on the Apple 4K TV to watch Amazon Prime Jack Ryan in Atmos.

I’ll wait for the normal OS release.

For what it’s worth, all combinations of formats I tested have great bass on Jack Ryan with my Yamaha.

 

[APORTO]

Thank you for checking that out. I streamed Netflix movies with a great audio experience last week. I will do some experimenting with other Amazon movies to see if the poor quality is just limited to Jack Ryan or all of Prime. I have no idea how to install beta OS and not sure I want to learn ;-) I thought the current updates allowed for Atmos. thank you again, Andrew

 

[snakeeyes]

Thank you for checking that out. I streamed Netflix movies with a great audio experience last week. I will do some experimenting with other Amazon movies to see if the poor quality is just limited to Jack Ryan or all of Prime. I have no idea how to install beta OS and not sure I want to learn ;-) I thought the current updates allowed for Atmos. thank you again, Andrew

Ya I would skip beta and wait a couple months for the regular OS. If you use the DSU Dolby upmixer on the Yamaha you should get pretty good sound on Prime app. (Personally In the meantime I’ll use my Sony UHD x800 for Prime DD+ with no Atmos, and use the DSU to matrix the ceiling speakers)

 

[APORTO]

I tried Jack Ryan on Fire and it sounded better. A new version of Fire is coming out with Atmos support. My current setup is only 7.2 with the plan on upgrading to 5.2.4 and I was asking in prep from my upgrade.
I do some Yamaha specific newbie questions:
1) How can I check to see what type of audio sources are coming into the AVR? Is there a specific menu? Do you use AVR display? on-screen? MusicCast?
2) How do I "Use the DSU Dolby upmixer"? I have the Artificial Intelligence setting on. With this setting on, I am unable to access any other settings. I think Yamaha takes complete control. Do you suggest a better / different setting for waiting movies?
3) What Yamaha settings do you suggest for music?
FYI, I have new Yamaha receiver, new SVS sub, new philharmonic BMR's. All are significant upgrades with new technologies from my 1990 5.1 Marantz. I have no real basis of comparison and really appreciate your input.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Also check out the "Yamaha's Owners' Thread" and "Dolby ATMOS Discussion Thread" for info.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-owners’-thread-avr-pre-pro-amp.112880/

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-dolby-atmos-dts-x-and-auro-3d-discussion-thread.112480/

 

[snakeeyes]

I tried Jack Ryan on Fire and it sounded better. A new version of Fire is coming out with Atmos support. My current setup is only 7.2 with the plan on upgrading to 5.2.4 and I was asking in prep from my upgrade.
I do some Yamaha specific newbie questions:
1) How can I check to see what type of audio sources are coming into the AVR? Is there a specific menu? Do you use AVR display? on-screen? MusicCast?
2) How do I "Use the DSU Dolby upmixer"? I have the Artificial Intelligence setting on. With this setting on, I am unable to access any other settings. I think Yamaha takes complete control. Do you suggest a better / different setting for waiting movies?
3) What Yamaha settings do you suggest for music?
FYI, I have new Yamaha receiver, new SVS sub, new philharmonic BMR's. All are significant upgrades with new technologies from my 1990 5.1 Marantz. I have no real basis of comparison and really appreciate your input.

1. a info button on AVR can be pressed multiple times for various info

1 b. On screen display is great if listening to music

1 c Click on screen twice then scroll up or down on left menu to information. This shows the input channels then also the output channels. For example you are playing a Blu-ray in dts hd ma. Some might show input is 7.1 but since you have only 5.1 in your speakers, output says 5.1. This is handy because you might have an input of 5.1.4 and output of 5.1.4 in straight mode but you have speakers for 7.1.4 so you push surround button on your remote to enable DSU and now input is still 5.1.4 and output is now 7.1.4. (Or you can just trust DSU or Neural will matrix to all channels available when you use them and look at the speakers lit up on the right side of the AVR display.)

1 d. The Yamaha controller app gives you access to all the same stuff and your phone is backlit (unlike the regular remote) and shortcuts to adjust sub trim on the fly to increase bass on a certain song. Or you can increase the dialogue to hear voices better. Etc. * My 3 rooms each have a Yamaha controllable in the app *

1 e. The Yamaha Musiccast app is more centered around music. You can stream directly using musiccast app over WiFi. This app is for if you are streaming directly using musiccast or any other method like airplay or internal pandora or web radio etc. since I have 3 rooms with Yamahas I can link them all to play one song throughout the house.

2 a. You press surround button to turn on DSU and direct button to turn off. If you press surround button multiple times it toggles between DSU and Neural and Neo.

2 b. I would turn off AI button so you can understand the manual selections and get used to it. I’m not sure the AI and what it does since that is a new feature. It’s only on the 2018 models. We would love if you tell us what it does and if you like it etc.

3. I like direct mode which comes in 2.1 unless you are sending a SACD or DVDA or Blu-ray Audio disc etc. On occasion in my theater room I turn on the dsp called 9ch Stereo for music which repeats the 2 ch to all speakers like in a car.

4. Which SVS sub did you get? How many BMRS are you running?

** I have had my current 2016 and 2017 Yamahas for only a year so I keep finding new settings. There is so much you can adjust. You should add at least the Yamaha controller app to your phone to try it. It is much easier to get to stuff that way if you are in the middle of a show. Also an iPad would work well too if a phone is too small to see well. Good luck!

 

[snakeeyes]

Also check out the "Yamaha's Owners' Thread" and "Dolby ATMOS Discussion Thread" for info.

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/yamaha-owners’-thread-avr-pre-pro-amp.112880/

https://forums.audioholics.com/forums/threads/the-dolby-atmos-dts-x-and-auro-3d-discussion-thread.112480/

Ya I think posting there is a smart idea. I’ve only had a year of playing around but just your post the other day about using musiccast directly was possible on WiFi to the app or Mike explaining web radio to me a few months ago. Literally tons of radio stations throughout the world! I might not have noticed those 2 for another year on my own.

 

[APORTO]

So much good info. Hitting the info button on the remote was key - RTFM! Even though the original topic was getting the best streaming audio, it devolved into me learning the basic functions of my AVR. I have been reading the linked posts which have been a wealth of info and I am playing with settings. I also found the manual online:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/1197630/web_AV17-0221_RX-A3080_2080_om_UCRABGLF_En_A0.pdf
Page 175 has a useful list of the various Audio formats Yamaha Supports and their descriptions.
Page 77 explains AI (I'll play around and post when I have an opinion):
Scenes are instantaneously analyzed with a focus on sound elements such as dialogue, background music, ambient sounds and sound effects as well as optimized in real time to create a compelling sense of
realism.
FYI, Streaming Netflix's Bright through AppleTV 4K, I was able to get an ATMOS signal (Picture included). It may seem trivial, but seeing that audio source was a milestone for me ;-) I reread Snake Eye's earlier post and realized he already said he gets Atmos on Netflix using AppleTV, I can confirm. Now I need to take some time to watch/listen/tweak settings, etc.

MusicCast is great - Pros: Great for streaming music / Pandora. Bullet proof / no glitches
Cons: Not intuitive - difficult to navigate, volume slide is outright bad, I'll stick with remote for that.

Speakers - 3 BMRs, Left, Right and Dennis reccommended a third over his Center speaker. He installed the tweeter horizontally and it sounds damn good! Sub is PB-400. Funny story, I thought my old Paradigm sub had broke, and replaced with SVS, but it was a bad audio source and the original sub was working fine. The SVS is sweet and that makes the mistake easier to accept. The BMRs are so nice, I am going to replace the rears with the Phil-mini's after I purchase 4 ceilings.

 

[snakeeyes]

So much good info. Hitting the info button on the remote was key - RTFM! Even though the original topic was getting the best streaming audio, it devolved into me learning the basic functions of my AVR. I have been reading the linked posts which have been a wealth of info and I am playing with settings. I also found the manual online:
https://usa.yamaha.com/files/download/other_assets/0/1197630/web_AV17-0221_RX-A3080_2080_om_UCRABGLF_En_A0.pdf
Page 175 has a useful list of the various Audio formats Yamaha Supports and their descriptions.
Page 77 explains AI (I'll play around and post when I have an opinion):
Scenes are instantaneously analyzed with a focus on sound elements such as dialogue, background music, ambient sounds and sound effects as well as optimized in real time to create a compelling sense of
realism.
FYI, Streaming Netflix's Bright through AppleTV 4K, I was able to get an ATMOS signal (Picture included). It may seem trivial, but seeing that audio source was a milestone for me ;-) I reread Snake Eye's earlier post and realized he already said he gets Atmos on Netflix using AppleTV, I can confirm. Now I need to take some time to watch/listen/tweak settings, etc.

MusicCast is great - Pros: Great for streaming music / Pandora. Bullet proof / no glitches
Cons: Not intuitive - difficult to navigate, volume slide is outright bad, I'll stick with remote for that.

Speakers - 3 BMRs, Left, Right and Dennis reccommended a third over his Center speaker. He installed the tweeter horizontally and it sounds damn good! Sub is PB-400. Funny story, I thought my old Paradigm sub had broke, and replaced with SVS, but it was a bad audio source and the original sub was working fine. The SVS is sweet and that makes the mistake easier to accept. The BMRs are so nice, I am going to replace the rears with the Phil-mini's after I purchase 4 ceilings.
View attachment 26323

I like the pandora plus $5/mo no commercials package and I use the Yamaha controller app more than the musicast app. The volume is plus minus rather than a slider. I also sometimes use AirPlay. Bluetooth works ok but airplay is nicer.

The PB4000 looks like a nice sub. @Danzilla31 has a pair he posted pics of.

 

[snakeeyes]

From the little info on AI, it’s hard to tell much. I normally don’t use dsp so an automatic dsp doesn’t really sound like a great idea, but maybe it works. Let us know your thoughts.

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok UHD Jack Ryan on Amazon Prime now works in Atmos 5.1.4 on my Yamaha 2060. The Yamaha displays Dolby Atmos.

 

[APORTO]

I did a little more playing with Yamaha AI and for music, the AI is not good! Music seemed to be directed to Center and it messed with sound stage. Sound quality was greatly improved by turning AI off. I've been leaving it on for movies and it doesn't sound as bad. I don't notice a difference with it on/off when watching movies.

I want to save Atmos movies for when my ceiling speakers arrive. 4 Philharmonic mini's on order ;-)

 

[snakeeyes]

I did a little more playing with Yamaha AI and for music, the AI is not good! Music seemed to be directed to Center and it messed with sound stage. Sound quality was greatly improved by turning AI off. I've been leaving it on for movies and it doesn't sound as bad. I don't notice a difference with it on/off when watching movies.

I want to save Atmos movies for when my ceiling speakers arrive. 4 Philharmonic mini's on order ;-)

DSP was ok back in the Prologic version 1 days. It is not necessary with modern decoders. AI is a DSP as far as I know.

 

[APORTO]

I like the pandora plus $5/mo no commercials package and I use the Yamaha controller app more than the musicast app. The volume is plus minus rather than a slider. I also sometimes use AirPlay. Bluetooth works ok but airplay is nicer.

The PB4000 looks like a nice sub. @Danzilla31 has a pair he posted pics of.

Thank you to SnakeEyes for the suggesting using controller app over music cast. I installed it, but hadn't used it until last night. I was relying on AI to determine the best movie decoder. when I turned AI off using the controller app, I found an icon for movie processing that was set to auto. I'm not sure the difference between auto and AI, but I then changed auto to Dolby Digital and noticed immediate improvement in sound quality. It seems both AI and Auto remove sound from surrounds & subs to focus more sound from center. When set to Dolby, there was more sound from all over (immersion). I will continue to check out the other settings, but if spending the money and effort to wire 6.2 additional speakers besides LCR (9.2 total), I want to hear / notice them.

 

[APORTO]

I apologize if I am beating a dead horse, but I want to be sure I got this right an I am using the Yamaha sound decoders the way they should be used. Here is what I think:

Source: The source format the AVR is receiving is displayed on the AVR unit itself. If no source is displayed, hit info on remote until the AVR displays the source. (DD+ is common for compressed Dolby when streaming)

Decoder: Decoders are selected to control how the AVR interprets/processes the source signal. To specify a decoder using the AV controller app:
1) Select the DSP icon at the bottom of the app. This will display many available options.
2) Select the Sound Decoder icon
3) The Sound Decoder icon will change to one of the decoders listed below. Continue to click the icon to cycle through the available decoders:

Dolby surround​

DTS Neural: X​

DTS Neo: 6 Cinema​

DTS Neo: 6 Music​

If everything above is correct, here are my questions:
1) Dolby surround - Since there is only one Dolby decoder available, the decoder will process the available signal and upscale / down scale depending on # of speakers configured with AVR?
i.e. a DD 5.1 signal will be up scaled to Atmos if you have a 5.1.4 setup configured
an Atmos signal will be down scaled to 5.1 if you have that speaker setup configured
an Atmos signal will be processed precisely as it is intended if you have a 5.1.4 setup configured

2) No DTS-X option listed above. Is this because I have yet to play a DTS-X source? When I do play DTS-X content, this option will be available?

3) Is there any reason anyone would process a DD+ signal using DTS Neural: X? Or a DTS signal using Dolby Digital?

Thank you for any feedback,
Andrew