help! i gotta beat my kid :D

J

jigmoore

Enthusiast
WOW! What a great forum....I did the obligatory 'look through the sticky's' and already learned a lot. Appreciate that. And I saw that it's very active....that's nice. I'm an old guy....but long time forum member (mainly in the motorcycle racing world) and love my music....so, hello!

Cut to the chase: I just bought my son a receiver, speakers, and sub for his 18th birthday....now I hate my systems. LOL! and now need advice on upgrading mine with focus on value (not top of the line)

specifics:
my original system:
Kenwood component rack system with
KC-208 controller
KM-208 amp
bunch of other components
JL-980AV speakers (2)
always sounded good for what it was. more volume than i'll ever need. still has decent accuracy and punch for how old it is and how many hours it's spent at high volumes.

'upgraded to a new system in a trade involving motorcycle parts'
Sony STR-DE595 receiver
JBL Northridge Series N24 speakers (4)
JBL PB10 sub
it had 5.1 for the tv....nicer quality sound....not as much power as the kenwood....been the main system in the house for about 6 years now. put the kenwood system downstairs and it's still the better 2 channel rock music system.

bought my son:
Yamaha RX-V371
Polk Audio TSi300 speakers (2)
Polk Audio PSW111 sub
set it up in the living room next to my sony system to show him how good it was....and I cried. That setup is beautiful. Made my Sony with JBL's sound like tin cans and a 55 gallon drum.

I immediately hopped on craigslist and bought:
bigger JBL ND310 speakers (2)
and replaced my mains (on the Sony system) with them.
it sounded better...filled in the mids and bottom...(maybe because they were used and too old and used up?). All the cones work...but the sound is just too muddy....muffled....no top end or dynamics.

I've lived with it for about a month now, and decided I just can't deal with it. I must at least catch up to what my son has. I wanted to know if the big difference was the speakers or the receiver, so I swapped main speakers with him (put his TSi300's on my Sony system, and I put my ND310's on his Yamaha). Realized it was the speakers. My ND310's sound crappy even on his receiver. His TSi's sounded awesome on my Sony. But still not as good as his whole setup...but possibly that's just acoustics, his sub, the receiver....or just my jealous 'grass is greener' mind.

Since I'm a cheapskate...and have way too much time on my hands......I tried my old JL980 main speakers on my Sony system, and though they sounded much better than the ND310's, they still just weren't up to the TSi's. The JL980's have tons of punch but the midrange was way too strong and overpowering and again missing the beautiful soundstage of the extremely dynamic TSI's.

So.....I'm thinking I should just buy some TSi300's for my system. But they are just north of my price range at $175 (I happened to catch his on sale for $150 each at BestBuy and it still hurts....).

bottom line: Any recommendations for a similar tower/bookshelf speaker that would be comparable/better for the same/less price as the TSi300?
 
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zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
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J

jigmoore

Enthusiast
What makes you prefer the boston and infinity....or more accurately what makes you dislike the polk?

And..do you know what the difference is between the tsi and monitor lines?
 
BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
What makes you prefer the boston and infinity....or more accurately what makes you dislike the polk?

And..do you know what the difference is between the tsi and monitor lines?
Once upon the time I went to big audio b&m store and listened to every single polk speaker they had and it wasn't until I reached LSi speakers is then I found something I liked. Don't remember listening to TSi, but all monitor series sound terrible to me

Both Boston & Infinity speakers produce more accurate and neutral sound and for most people more accurate speakers = better speakers
I'd throw in few more suggestions:
BOSTON ACOUSTICS A360 3-Way Dual 6.5in Floor Standing Speaker EA White | Accessories4less
KEF C5 Two Way 5¼" Floorstanding Speakers Pair Black | Accessories4less

and My favorite: CMT-340 SE Mini-Tower Loudspeaker
Not exactly tower speakers, but these would sound the best vs others listed above.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Well, I could potentially talk about a lot of things here. Most folks who aren't all crazy into Audio/Video like me ( :p ) tend to understandably focus on the gear (speakers, amps, receivers, etc.) and also tend to expect it to be "plug and play".

The truth is that the gear is only 1/3rd of an audio system. The room itself (its acoustics) are really a full 50% of the system, while the remaining portion is proper placement, setup and calibration (including what the listener is used to and expects the system to sound like).

So honestly, if you want to really experience accurate sound and hear all of the detail that the sound engineers and mixers put into the recordings, there's a lot more to think about and address than just the choice of speakers.

But I don't expect anyone who doesn't live and breath home theater and audio to get into all of that stuff right away :) What I think is an easier and more natural approach is to start with good gear that we audio nuts know is empirically good gear. Equipment that is objectively accurate and free from distortion. In other words, if it doesn't sound good, it's not the speakers' fault! ;) If you start with objectively good speakers, it let's you know that any problem with the sound comes from either the room's acoustics or your setup/placement/calibration.

Given your low price range, there's no better choice for you than the Infinity Primus speakers

Start by looking through Infinity's website and getting the details on the sizes of the various models in the Primus lineup. Once you have the models that you think would fit best in your room in mind, do some comparative price shopping online because the Primus speakers can be found for very low prices if you look around. Do a Google Product Search for the Primus speaker models that interest you and you should be able to buy them within your desired budget :)

There are, of course, even better speakers than the Infinity Primus if you're willing to spend considerably more money. But the Primus are an excellent starting point for anyone who wants to experience accurate sound reproduction for a very reasonable price.

Now, the one area where I would not recommend sticking with the Infinity Primus brand is for the subwoofer. Reproducing accurate bass is very, very difficult. To do it properly, you have to be able to move A LOT of air. And to move that much air with control and accuracy is even harder. And it costs some money to make that happen. There's really no way around it. You cannot cheat physics and you cannot make a good subwoofer without some decent parts and good design that doesn't cut corners.

So I have to tell you that, personally, I think good bass starts at around $500. If you can manage to swing that much in your budget for the subwoofer alone, I promise you that it is worth it. And the subwoofer to go for at $500 is, without question, the Rythmik FV12

Now, a lot of people naturally think that all of their speakers should come from the same brand. Please believe me when I say that that is NOT the case. Your subwoofer has a specific job that is best accomplished by a truly dedicated design. There is nothing at $500 or less that can really compete in terms of accurate, deeply extended and very clean, distortion free bass reproduction with the Rythmik FV12. It is a steal for $500!

Now, I realize that might be considerably more than you were expecting to pay, so I will offer a lower cost option. With the HSU STF-2 at $350. You will be giving up some extension with the STF-2. It doesn't play as deep as the FV12, nor as loud. But if you care more about music than movies, the lack of that deepest extension won't be much of an issue. There is very little bass below 30Hz in music, and the STF-2 can play down to 30Hz quite nicely. So it is a real option worth considering if you want to keep the price lower. Honestly though, do not go below the $350 HSU STF-2. Going cheaper than that takes you into the territory of genuinely wasting your money. You would be better off to start with no subwoofer and simply save up your money until you can afford a proper subwoofer with the STF-2, or better yet, the FV12 :)

Finally, if you are looking to replace your receiver, my advice is to stick with Denon . Again, look through the specs on the website and then do a Google Product Search to find a good price.

Denon is not always the cheapest, but they are a very reliable brand with rock-solid products and very good feature sets for the money. What I personally like with Denon is that they use the Audyssey brand of auto-setup and EQ, which I personally find to be the best of the auto-setup programs that are out there. You will find Audyssey on Onkyo branded receivers as well, which are often the lowest in price for a given feature set. But there are more instances of Onkyo receivers developing problems - most of them associated with heat since Onkyo receivers often run quite hot. Denon has a better reputation for reliability, so I feel that their very slightly higher prices are justified ;)

Hope that helps! And if you want to get into more detail about room acoustics and setup/placement/calibration, I'd be happy to do that! But for now, if you just want to start with some gear that I can promise you is good gear - accurate and objectively good - get yourself some Infinity Primus speakers, the Rythmik FV12 subwoofer if you can, the HSU STF-2 if you can't quite afford the FV12, and a Denon receiver to power everything.

Enjoy! :D
 
zieglj01

zieglj01

Audioholic Spartan
What makes you prefer the boston and infinity....or more accurately what makes you dislike the polk?

And..do you know what the difference is between the tsi and monitor lines?
Main difference between TSi and Monitor series, is the outside look.

To me, the TSi/Monitor speakers - are somewhat artificial sounding,
and lack detail in the midrange, with a somewhat sharp and edgy
treble and mushy/boomy bass.

The Boston and Infinity, at their price point - sound more detailed
and musical to me. Your choice and good luck.

I would aim for the Boston A series, if you can live with white speakers.
They do have a black grill, that helps with the appearance.:)
Accessories4less: High End Audio at Low End Prices!
 
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j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Beat him with a belt :D

I will second the Infinity Primus line. They should be an improvement over the Polks for about the same price or less if you can find them on sale.
 
F

FirstReflection

AV Rant Co-Host
Yeah, I was just joshin' :p

Don't see a lot of AV123 recommendations anymore is all.

Ahh fond (federal crime) memories...

lol
 
j_garcia

j_garcia

Audioholic Jedi
Yes, they are/were good speakers. The speakers weren't the problem :)
 
indulger

indulger

Audioholic
Gov is selling a set of 340's as I type this. Look in sell ur gear thread. I bet they were well taken care of. He seemed anal about his gear(in a good way) when reading his posts.
 
J

jigmoore

Enthusiast
wow. thanks for the replies.....sorry for the delay....email notification somehow turned off or something.

since my last questions, i have since borrowed some paradigm titan v.3 bookshelf speakers i bought for my brother about 5 years ago. i would definitely be satisfied with those as well. they sounded great. a little more accurate sounding to me than the polk tsi300 with a little stonger midrange. but lacked the high end crispness of the polks (maybe because of their age?). so now i felt i was getting into preferences rather than improvement over the polk tsi300. both were significantly better than my current setup and i would be super happy with either.

so here's 2 more questions:
1) i don't think i'll buy speakers that i can't hear first. so i'll really only consider speakers locally available. so bestbuy, guitarcenter, ehhhhh.....classic stereo went out of business.....can't think of any other spots in Grand Rapids, Mi to listen to stuff. any suggestions?

2) shouldn't i buy new? don't speakers really lose something over time/volume?

and a couple comments based on the replies:
1) i'm already happy in the $300/pair range for the polk and am not going to spend any more. just want to make sure i'm spending wisely in that price range.
2) i'm only interested in one pair of front main speakers. not going to replace sub or rcvr at this time
3) i have now determined that they don't have to be tower speakers. bookshelf or towers are now both options to consider.

if i could listen to boston or primus speakers in town, i'd really like to hear them. i'm intrigued by the recommendations.

here's a local listing for some....are these good?
edit: dang....can't post links yet.....search grand rapids, mi craigslist for infinity primus....there's only one ad
 
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BoredSysAdmin

BoredSysAdmin

Audioholic Slumlord
I found some decent options on CL for you to check out:
Speakers Snell Kiii's
DCM-350 speakers
Snell J/III speakers
OHM Walsh 2 Speakers

this last one is probably way out of your budget, but I get the feeling the owner will be motivated to sell and I would not be surprised if he/she sells the whole system at 2k
MB Quart Vera VS 1F Home Theater Speaker System Reduced from $5000

If nothing else you could checkout how good speakers supposed to sound like :D
SoundStage! Equipment Review - MB Quart Vera VS 1F Loudspeakers (2/2005)
 
J

jigmoore

Enthusiast
Thanks. I'll check them out. I'm currently in guitar center falling in love with a pair of yamaha hs80m 8" powered studio monitors........ugh....I might be spending more than I planned.
 
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