Headphone-based system?

[EYEdROP0]

STAX are always THE best. But if you want cheap, comfort, and soundstage, Sennheiser is known to have a laid back sound with lots of 3d imaging and soundstaging. Grados are more revealing and in your face.

 

[TLS Guy]

After reading many reviews of top-rated headphones (including the Stax), I have noted a common denominator: Virtually every review mentions that headphones sound fundamentally different than both live music and speakers. This may mean that the illusion I am trying to achieve (of the sound being out in the room instead of inside my head) is unobtainable. If that is the case, I may have to give up on the idea of headphones altogether.

I love my stereo, and the sound through the speakers is excellent. The only problem is that I have to keep the volume (relatively) low and limit my listening to daytime, in order to avoid complaints from the neighbors.

They may not be a bad decision. I have never got on with headphones for long. I took speakers to my recording sessions, unless that was completely impossible. I pretty much always screwed up the balance when monitoring with headphones. My son on the other hand has no problem with headphone listening and a lot of people don't.

 

[Tod]

I've not listened to a wide enough range of headphones to give much comparative input, but here are a couple things I can add about earlier comments.

Crossfeed: I also have a Headroom portable amp with the circuitry. Yes, it doesn't make much noticeable difference, except on those albums specifically mixed to completely split the channels for something. It does make those sound a little less disorienting. Other than those few (depending on what you listen to) instances, I've never had any problem with headphone vs. speaker sound.

Amps: I don't use the Headroom except for traveling. The Channel Islands Audio is another affordable option (without crossfeed), and it looks nice too. Right now I have that at the office, and am using the headphone output on my Rotel preamp at home. It sounds lovely.

Headphones. Never listened to Grado, but I can't think of a reason to either...Nothing disappointing or upgraditic about the Sennheisers! They're also completely comfortable with glasses.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

It is looking more and more as though headphone listening will be a rarity for me. It is probably something that I will only end up doing when speakers are not practical (ie late at night.) Also, my source and amp (Cambridge Audio Azur 340C and 340A) are considered "budget hi fi" rather than "high end". With all these factors in mind, I am leaning towards some of the more affordable Sennheisers.
Am I likely to be disappointed if I get the (approx.) $180 ones?

Edit: the ones I am thinking of are HD555.

 

[EYEdROP0]

Headphones are always better for the money. It would take atleast 10 times the cost to make an equivalent speaker based system. Not only that, there is a gem in every price range.

Im going off to the dorms sometime in the near future. Im gonna sell my system and get a wicked good pair of STAX. Headphones have an advantage of not having to deal with acoustics in a listening room. Not only that, the drivers are much smaller and faster moving. Speakers will generally have better soundstage, but a really good pair of headphones can easily match. The only thing speakers have an advatage of is feeling the vibrations. Joe, I highly doubt youll be disappointed. My $100 Grados are just barely less detailed than my home system, which is around $3000 retail.

 

[WmAx]

Im going off to the dorms sometime in the near future. Im gonna sell my system and get a wicked good pair of STAX.

The only Stax that I have found to be worth having is the Omega II. I have tried most of the Stax models, and the lower line ones like the Lambda were just annoying; they have a mid-range resonance that really bothers me, though many people seem to be able to tolerate it.

Not only that, the drivers are much smaller and faster moving

.

Faster? Speed of the diaphragm is defined by velocity, which is a factor of frequency vs. movement distance. I don't see how a headphone driver is going to be as physical 'fast' as a speaker driver in this regard. The speaker has to produce far higher excursion at any given frequency, resulting in higher peak velocity of the diaphragms. If you were not referring to physics, but instead, subjective sound, this is only true for headphones when compared to normal speakers. Very high quality low resonance speakers can be every bit as good in this regard. I have a set of monitors on my computer workstation that are 'cleaner/clearer/faster' than all but the very best performing headphones, though it is an unusually high quality monitor system.

Speakers will generally have better soundstage, but a really good pair of headphones can easily match.

The only way a conventional headphone system(as opposed to a special binaural system set up) can even begin to compare is with the aid of DSP.

-Chris

 

[Tod]

It is looking more and more as though headphone listening will be a rarity for me. It is probably something that I will only end up doing when speakers are not practical (ie late at night.) Also, my source and amp (Cambridge Audio Azur 340C and 340A) are considered "budget hi fi" rather than "high end". With all these factors in mind, I am leaning towards some of the more affordable Sennheisers.
Am I likely to be disappointed if I get the (approx.) $180 ones?

Edit: the ones I am thinking of are HD555.

Another $116 (Amazon), and it could be the HD600! A former top of the line from a top of the line company, and barely outperformed by the new model according to most reviewers.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Another $116 (Amazon), and it could be the HD600! A former top of the line from a top of the line company, and barely outperformed by the new model according to most reviewers.

I keep going back and forth. I know that spending more would get me better headphones, but I am not sure I can justify the higher cost for occasional listening only. The key question is whether or not really good 'phones will inspire me to listen to them more often than I currently think I will.

My CD player only has one set of analog outputs, and they are in use. This means that I really must use the headphone jack on my integrated amp. Headphones that require a dedicated amp would also require buying a second CD player (or an external DAC), and the cost then becomes prohibitive!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I get paid Friday. At that time, I will have to decide between something relatively affordable (which I can buy then), or something considerably higher (which will require waiting an additional two weeks.)
The choice is between two levels, either $100-$200 or $500-$600 depending on whether I will use them a little or a lot. I don't think I would be happy with something in-between (say $300-$400), because I would feel that it was too much for occasional use but not good enough to avoid upgraditis.

 

[WmAx]

I get paid Friday. At that time, I will have to decide between something relatively affordable (which I can buy then), or something considerably higher (which will require waiting an additional two weeks.)
The choice is between two levels, either $100-$200 or $500-$600 depending on whether I will use them a little or a lot. I don't think I would be happy with something in-between (say $300-$400), because I would feel that it was too much for occasional use but not good enough to avoid upgraditis.

You should consider gong to a headphone meet so that you can audition a wide variety of headphones. You can check at www.head-fi.org for meetings on the meetings forum. There may be one coming up not too far from you.

BTW, once you get into the 200 dollar range, it is not necessarily true that $600 will get you a better headphone. Now, of course this depends on the specific models that you have available to audition, but ultimately, after sampling a huge selection over years, I have found this to be the case - cost does not equal quality in most cases past a certain thresh hold.

If this is for home use, you need to really get a neutral as possible headphone even if you don't like it's sound as is - and then use a powerful DSP EQ on it to get your exact preferred signature/sound. This will always be far better than trying to pick based on the built in EQ of different phones.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

BTW, once you get into the 200 dollar range, it is not necessarily true that $600 will get you a better headphone.

I have just discovered that amazon has one hell of a sale price on the AKG K701s (under $300!) If that price holds through Friday (not guaranteed, as their sale prices can change fast), I will likely get them. Reviewers are nearly unanimous in calling the 701s "among the very best headphones ever made". They are also described as having both of the primary attributes I am seeking: superb comfort and a more "speaker-like" sound than most other headphones.

 

[EYEdROP0]

I get paid Friday. At that time, I will have to decide between something relatively affordable (which I can buy then), or something considerably higher (which will require waiting an additional two weeks.)
The choice is between two levels, either $100-$200 or $500-$600 depending on whether I will use them a little or a lot. I don't think I would be happy with something in-between (say $300-$400), because I would feel that it was too much for occasional use but not good enough to avoid upgraditis.

I can recommend the Sony MDR-SA5000 for that price range. Extremely detailed, neutral, and you dont necessarily need an amp.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I get paid today, and am ready to buy something.

I have a final decision to make:

My room is fairly quiet, but it is certainly not silent. Noises include the refrigerator, the heat/air, cars on the far side of the building, running water, and various neighbor noises. Blocking these out could improve my listening experience.

Conversely, I have read that open-backed headphones generally sound better, specifically more "speaker-like" and less "boxy" (except for a couple of very high-end Denons which are out of my price range.)

The big decision, therefore, is open vs. sealed. Opinions?

My top contenders for open-backed 'phones are AKG K701s, Beyerdynamic DT990s, and Sennheiser HD595s (or possibly HD600s.)
Top picks for closed are AKG K272s, Beyerdynamic DT770s, and Denon AH-D2000s.

 

[TLS Guy]

I get paid today, and am ready to buy something.

I have a final decision to make:

My room is fairly quiet, but it is certainly not silent. Noises include the refrigerator, the heat/air, cars on the far side of the building, running water, and various neighbor noises. Blocking these out could improve my listening experience.

Conversely, I have read that open-backed headphones generally sound better, specifically more "speaker-like" and less "boxy" (except for a couple of very high-end Denons which are out of my price range.)

The big decision, therefore, is open vs. sealed. Opinions?

My top contenders for open-backed 'phones are AKG K701s, Beyerdynamic DT990s, and Sennheiser HD595s (or possibly HD600s.)
Top picks for closed are AKG K272s, Beyerdynamic DT770s, and Denon AH-D2000s.

Definitely open Joe. If you have had a difficult time with headphones before you will hate closed phones. I regard closed phones as specialist application devices.

You have a good headphone short list by the way. I have used both AKG and Sennheisser over the years. I have a slight preference for the Sens, also they hold up better to rough service on he road so to speak, but the latter should not be an issue for you.

 

[zhimbo]

Well, you have all those sounds in your place when you listen to speakers, too. I don't really hold the opinion that you need a silent room to use open headphones. Sealed phones are nice option, though, for when you DO want to block out the noise. The "in your own world" experience of sealed phones sometimes appeals to me on its own merits, and I also travel with sealed phones (a little, eh, clunky, but worth it). I can't comment on those particular models, unfortunately.

But TLS is right: if you generally don't like the "headphone-like" aspects of headphone listening, I'd definitely pick an open pair.

(Of course, the right answer is always "get both!").

 

[Tod]

One thing to add about sealed ones - the only pair I've used is the Sennheiser HD280. If you don't move it's fine, but the cord does far too well at transmitting friction noise to your ears. Really annoyingly distracting. I don't know how many others are the same way, but open designs seem inherently resistant to that.

Also they sucked with glasses - need a tight seal, so were pretty uncomfortable. Again, I don't know if the sealed ones you would consider have that issue as well.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Thanks, guys. I will go for an open pair. After reading more reviews, I have concluded that Beyers are probably a bit too bas-heavy for my tastes (I prefer natural, clearly-defined bass over powerful bass.)

The Sennheisers HD595s cost a bit less at the moment than the AKG 701s, but I am not certain if they are as good (the HD600s probably are as good as or better than the 701s, but cost a bit more.) The 701s are also very deeply discounted, which gives me the feeling of getting more for my money.

I think I am going to get the AKG K701s, unless somebody can think of a reason that I might be disappointed. (Later, I might add a headphone amp and/or dedicated headphone DAC from Headroom. For now, however, I think that my Cambridge Audio Azur components will give me a pretty high quality signal and more than adequate power.)

 

[WmAx]

Closed back headphones with no closed back 'signatures' of any type:

-Sony MDR-R10
-Sony MDR-CD3000
-Sony MDR-CD900ST
-Audio Technica L3000

These are simply listed as example. Due to cost, availability and/or specialist application(s), none of these are likely to be a good choice for the OP. For example, the CD3000 is long since discontinued and the L3000 costs well over a thousand dollars.

-Chris

 

[WmAx]

BTW, the K701 is not neutral in response, though some people may claim it as so. I have compared them to true known neutral reference, unlike the ones that make these claims. At best, it could be said that it sounds more 'natural' to some people on some select music recordings.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I have ordered the 701s (along with a 15' headphone extension cord from Grado.) Not sure how long it will take to get them, but I will post my impressions when I do. I fully expect to love them (though whether or not I will prefer them to my speakers remains an open question.)