Headphone-based system?

[Joe Schmoe]

I posted this question in the CD section, but it moves slooow, so I will repeat it here:
Has anyone heard the Shanling PCD 300A (CD player with built-in headphone amp)? Is it worth $500? Is it better than a more conventional CD player with headphone output such as the Marantz CD5003? Is there a combination of CD player and stand-alone headphone amp for a total of $500 (or less) that would outperform either of those choices?

 

[TLS Guy]

I posted this question in the CD section, but it moves slooow, so I will repeat it here:
Has anyone heard the Shanling PCD 300A (CD player with built-in headphone amp)? Is it worth $500? Is it better than a more conventional CD player with headphone output such as the Marantz CD5003? Is there a combination of CD player and stand-alone headphone amp for a total of $500 (or less) that would outperform either of those choices?

Joe, we are not talking power amplifiers here. A low powered amp to drive a headphone is duck soup to design, hell I could do as went along with odds and ends in my bins. There is absolutely nothing special or exotic, you can put into a headphone amp, without perpetrating a con job. We are very close to a funny wire issue with this one.

If you want to buy a nice looking unit that has convenience then take your pick. This is much more a cosmetic issue than anything else, Joe.

This may start a flame war, but I honestly believe it to be true.

 

[Joe Schmoe]

Joe, we are not talking power amplifiers here. A low powered amp to drive a headphone is duck soup to design, hell I could do as went along with odds and ends in my bins. There is absolutely nothing special or exotic, you can put into a headphone amp, without perpetrating a con job. We are very close to a funny wire issue with this one.

If you want to buy a nice looking unit that has convenience then take your pick. This is much more a cosmetic issue than anything else, Joe.

This may start a flame war, but I honestly believe it to be true.

My original thought was that if I were to buy a separate headphone amp, then I would need a CD player for it because my current CD player only has one set of analog outputs and they are connected to my integrated amp (switching between them would thus be highly inconvenient!) This led to the idea of a single unit with both.
Are you saying that a separate headphone amp would not outperform the headphone output of my Cambrigde Audio 340A? If that is the case, it will save me some $ down the road!

 

[TLS Guy]

My original thought was that if I were to buy a separate headphone amp, then I would need a CD player for it because my current CD player only has one set of analog outputs and they are connected to my integrated amp (switching between them would thus be highly inconvenient!) This led to the idea of a single unit with both.
Are you saying that a separate headphone amp would not outperform the headphone output of my Cambrigde Audio 340A? If that is the case, it will save me some $ down the road!

That is exactly what I'm telling you! If you have funds, and want a sexy looking unit be my guest. However I think you have a girl friend now!

 

[Joe Schmoe]

That is exactly what I'm telling you! If you have funds, and want a sexy looking unit be my guest. However I think you have a girl friend now!

That is good to know. If I can enjoy my new 'phones without thinking "these would sound even better if I bought a ___", I will be happy!
(Note: Yes, I am still with the girlfriend. She tolerates my hobby because she is a birder and spends a fortune on binoculars, scopes, books, etc.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

This may start a flame war, but I honestly believe it to be true.

This would definitely start a flame war if it were posted on one of the fanatical headphone sites, such as Head-Fi!

 

[WmAx]

Are you saying that a separate headphone amp would not outperform the headphone output of my Cambrigde Audio 340A? If that is the case, it will save me some $ down the road!

The only likely circumstance that would make the Cambridge phone output unsuitable is if it did not provide enough voltage for the headphones with quiet recordings, there for not producing sufficient SPL for you. The only way to know if this is the case at this point is to try it.

FYI: the several hundred dollar Grado 'high end' headphone amplifier contains about $5 total of materials/components, and is based on the most simple of circuits using a $0.25 IC chip as the actual amplifier stage.

There are headphone amps with expensive components, but it's all snake oil to fill psychological needs of the audiophiles so far as I can tell.

The things that affect the sound of a headphone amp are similar to that of a speaker amp: frequency response, distortion and output impedance. The first two should be moot if it's even remotely competently designed. The output impedance can vary though between models - sometimes headphone outputs will have a relatively high output impedance that will end up applying 'EQ' to the headphone through the reactive interaction with the headphone impedance curve. But most headphone outputs should have a very low output impedance.

-Chris

 

[Joe Schmoe]

The output impedance can vary though between models - sometimes headphone outputs will have a relatively high output impedance that will end up applying 'EQ' to the headphone through the reactive interaction with the headphone impedance curve. But most headphone outputs should have a very low output impedance.

The only information I have found about that for the 340A is that they recommend using headphones with "impedance >32 Ohms". Since the AKGs are 62 Ohms, that should be fine.
They arrive Thursday! (I hope the extension cord arrives at the same time.
I also hope that open-back 'phones were the right choice for me.)

 

[Joe Schmoe]

The headphones arrived on Thursday. They definitely sound like headphones rather than speakers, but within that limitation they sound incredible! I am picking out details I never even suspected on recordings I have heard a thousand times! Having the soundstage centered in my head and extending no more than a few inches (headstage?) will take some getting used to, but it is so incredibly detailed, articulate, and 3-dimensional that I can enjoy it as much as speakers. I think these could become my preferred listening experience (which would certainly make my neighbors happy!

I do wish I had some good closed-back 'phones for a direct comparison. Ambient noise is sometimes distracting, but I don't know how much of the excellent soundstage I would lose without the open design.

The only issue is comfort. The weight and pressure are fairly evenly distributed, but there are still a few concentrated pressure points that become uncomfotable after an hour and painful after 2 hours. Perhaps the material will soften over time and eliminate this problem?

Refer to the amp section for my report on the electronics.

 

[Biggiesized]

BTW, the K701 is not neutral in response, though some people may claim it as so. I have compared them to true known neutral reference, unlike the ones that make these claims. At best, it could be said that it sounds more 'natural' to some people on some select music recordings.

-Chris

I'm sure you may have answered this before, but how do you measure headphones for neutrality?

 

[Tommination]

I bought a pair of Grado Sr-125 yesterday and I really love them!! ; )
I'm using a laptop for primary pc and of course it got a crapy soundcard.
I love to listen to it that way coz it's my first hi-fi thing. But does it worth the cost for me to get an headphone amp

 

[majorloser]

Here's a little info on your Grado 125's
http://www.headphone.com/products/headphones/earpad/grado-sr-125.php
http://www.stereophile.com/headphones/602grado/

Yes, I would recommend a portable headphone amplifier if you are using these with a laptop soundcard. I'm sure somebody here will speak up on an affordable model with decent power and battery life.

 

[Brian_the_King]

On a laptop you'd be best off with a USB DAC + amplifier. Poke around Head-fi for your options.. the only thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Pico, which is a bit pricey.

 

[Tommination]

yeah usb good idea!
thanks

 

[Joe Schmoe]

I have been very much enjoying the AKGs, and the sound is too good for me to think that a separate headphone amp could be an improvement.
The only remaining issues are comfort and ambient noise. I have ordered a pair of Beyerdynamic DT770s for comparison (closed and rated highly for comfort.) Should be interesting. (The Beyers are said to have a lot more bass, which might or might not be a good thing.)