Head to Head Review: Ascend Acoustics CBM-170 SE vs Wharfedale Diamond 10.1

[jm78]

Did i miss something? Which do you like better for nearfield? Come on, spit it out.

 

[2ndammendment]

Did i miss something? Which do you like better for nearfield? Come on, spit it out.

Honestly, I think they are both going back. Doing this review has showed me is I may have to spend more money to get what I'm looking for. I will compile a summary today.

 

[jm78]

Cool, thanks. I'm very interested to hear the summary.

 

[2ndammendment]

Summary: I've tested these two speakers to exhaustion. I spent yesterday ripping out the receiver from my main listening room and placing it in my computer room so I could do some A/B switching between the two speakers(for whatever reason the existing pioneer receiver that is in the computer room wasn't cooperating when I tried to A/B switching). I originally said that these two speakers are very similar. I hate eating my own words but I'm going to have to. They are not as similar as I originally thought. I didn't learn much from the hours of A/B switching I did that I didn't already know, but it did make it easier to grasp how these two speakers differ.(Note: A/B switching was done on pure direct with no correction to eliminate as many variables as possible). The original notes I made about each speaker still hold true. I talked a lot about the positives of each speakers before, so I am now going to focus on the negatives.

The CBM-170's are detail oriented for sure. Thats why I think a lot of people give them such praise. However, to my ears they sound thin and lack a certain lower midrange warmth that makes music sound well rounded. At first, it didn't bother me but after listening to the Whafedales, A1b's, and SVS Ultras I began to realize what each speakers were missing. Its really this absence of lower midrange warmth that sealed their fate in my opinion. They managed to stay detailed in the highs without being overly harsh most of the time, which I found impressive.


The A1b's as I mentioned before, very different than the CBM-170s. They have that lower midrange warmth I was missing with the 170's, however they traded this for clarity and openness. I will go out on a limb and say it, the A1b's sound a bit veiled to me, somewhat like the Wharfedales. As seen by the ABx trails, I wasn't able to distinguish 225kbps from FLAC, where as I scored quite well with the CBM-170's. They do have a certain top end sizzle though that the Wharfedales didn't have(biased on memory), so while sounding overall veiled when it came to vocals and violins, they still managed to sparkle with other instruments(such as high pitched cymbals and special effects such as sparkling effects in electronic music). As mentioned, violins and some vocals were the downfall of the A1b's. Violins lacked energy and female vocals sounded a bit too recessed.


CBM-170's

The Good:

-Reasonably high resolution/Detailed
-Live sounding
-Dynamic
-Great sensitivity
-Sounds better at lower volumes

The Bad:


-”Thin” sound due to recessed lower midrange warmth
-Can be fatiguing under certain circumstances such as near field at higher volume
-Light on bass considering their size
-Non-flush face plate and back plate make it look cheap

A1b

The Good:

-Solid cabinet
-Attention to detail(grills, finish etc)
-Better lower midrange than the 170's
-Easy to listen too
-5.3” woofer that puts out as much bass as some 6.5” woofers
-Sounds better at louder volumes

The Bad:

-Upper midrange seems recessed which makes the A1b sound veiled.
-Takes a fair amount of juice to get them going, although thats only a problem for large spaces.
-Lacking in dynamics, too restrained on scenes that should be a little more in your face.
-Vocals and some instruments lack energy


I have decided that these two don't really give me what I need. I feel like these speakers don't get me in the goldilocks zone. The CBM-170's are a little too hot and the A1'b are a little too cold. I could choose to settle for one of these two, throw more money and time at the problem to get to where I really want. I see speakers as a long term investment so at this point my plan is to bite the bullet and spend more money than I wanted too in order to find the right speaker.

With that said, if I had to pick one I think it would be the Arx A1b. The CBM-170's do better with classical music, however for causal listening (EDM on Spotify) I find the A1b's are a little better at near-field.

I want to emphasis that I am being pretty hard on these speakers. In general I'm hard to impress, and am very critical. They are both are well regarded speakers and are loved by many.

When I talked to Jon Lane before purchasing the A1b's he said he would likely be willing extend my auditioning period for review purposes, if I needed it(I still have a few weeks left). Its awesome to see a company willing to be flexible, it makes you feel that they just want you to be happy no matter what. I will probably take him up on that offer and keep the A1b's in order to put them up against some other great stand-mount speakers. Its entirely possible I won't find another speaker in my price range that does better at near-field duties, which means the A1b's will be the keepers.


For those that are curious, here is my updated list of speakers that are next on my list.

-EMP Tek E5Bi(probably my last shot at trying to find a speaker in the budget price range)

-Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf(I own the 6T's and they are pretty good, free shipping both ways, nothing to lose)

-PSB Image B6

 

[PENG]

For those that are curious, here is my updated list of speakers that are next on my list.

-EMP Tek E5Bi(probably my last shot at trying to find a speaker in the budget price range)

-Aperion Verus Grand Bookshelf(I own the 6T's and they are pretty good, free shipping both ways, nothing to lose)

-PSB Image B6

Would you consider the KEF R300?

 

[2ndammendment]

Would you consider the KEF R300?

They cost about as much as all 3 of those speakers I listed combined A little out of my budget.

 

[billy p]

They cost about as much as all 3 of those speakers I listed combined A little out of my budget.

Likely more.....Come on Peng....lol.

I would agree though, you might need to increase the budget some to get the overall tonal balance you're looking for. Imo there is no perfect speaker...comes down to tradeoffs and what you willing to live with or compromise.

GL...Bill...

 

[jm78]

Nice summary, from your descriptions it sounds like the arx a1b would be a better fit for me since I'm going to use two channel setup and want good bass. I really don't like fatiguing highs, so arx seems like a safe bet. However, wonder how veiled it does sound. I listen often at low volumes and from the summary it sounds as if the ascend 170 is better in that respect.

Also, I wonder how the hsu hb-1 and pioneer modded bs22 would compare to all of these.

 

[2ndammendment]

Nice summary, from your descriptions it sounds like the arx a1b would be a better fit for me since I'm going to use two channel setup and want good bass. I really don't like fatiguing highs, so arx seems like a safe bet. However, wonder how veiled it does sound. I listen often at low volumes and from the summary it sounds as if the ascend 170 is better in that respect.

Also, I wonder how the hsu hb-1 and pioneer modded bs22 would compare to all of these.

I understand your concerns about low volume performance. I do a majority of my listening at low volumes(between 55dB and 70dB). I am listening to the A1b's on Spotify right now trying to clear the 40 tab backlog of speaker research I have open on my browser For causal listening such as this I dont find the A1b's slightly veiled presentation much of a real world issue. Sure, I may not catch every little background detail but if I want to, all I have to do is crank it up a few dB. It might be more of an issue with things like gaming or watching movies late at night at really low levels. It hasn't bothered me to a notable extent. Ill know more when I get another bookshelf in for auditioning.

 

[2ndammendment]

So a little bit of an update for those who don't already know from following my thread at AVS. I picked up some Energy RC-10's locally for an awesome price(200 bucks) as I though they might be an interesting speaker to toss into the mix. Many people have heard the RC-10 so it will be helpful when I use it for comparison to other speakers. So far they are preforming well. The midbass and lower midrange is a little muddy and over pronounced but the tweeter is great. I went ahead and ran MCACC which alleviated most of the midbass and lower midrange issues while leaving everything over 500hz uncorrected per my new evaluation protocol. The RC-10's seem to be more detailed and open than the A1b's which makes for better low volume listening. There seems to be a slight null around the crossover frequency on the RC-10 that is not present in the A1b. I am not sure on that yet. I will post up a comparison when I am done. Also I will be ordering the Emp Teks in a few days if/when they become available. Once I am done with the Emp's I will post a compilation with a ranking system of all the speakers I've auditioned(ranking them from brightest to warmest, etc).

 

[ImcLoud]

Did you consider the csb1's I cant remember if anyone brought them up and Im too lazy to read the 10 pages to find out...

Also if you can find a set of wharfedale evos and or there were a set of jade 1's in the classifieds for sale for a great price..

 

[2ndammendment]

Did you consider the csb1's I cant remember if anyone brought them up and Im too lazy to read the 10 pages to find out...

Also if you can find a set of wharfedale evos and or there were a set of jade 1's in the classifieds for sale for a great price..

Yes somebody brought up the csb1s over on avs I believe. They look like a great deal and I would probably be willing to pick up one of the b-stocks as long as I could audition them. It looks like there are a few forum members in the Bay Area.

I would prefer to buy speakers new.

 

[charmerci]

Yes somebody brought up the csb1s over on avs I believe. They look like a great deal and I would probably be willing to pick up one of the b-stocks as long as I could audition them. It looks like there are a few forum members in the Bay Area.

I would prefer to buy speakers new.

That was me! I just bought a pair and they will be shipped later. I'll be out of town from the 16th to the 19th, so I won't be able to listen to them until I get back. The "B -stock" is actually new but they just put too much polyfill inside and you need to pull the woofer and move it around so the woofer backwave can go out the rear port.

(I'll start another thread when they come in.)

 

[zieglj01]

That was me! I just bought a pair and they will be shipped later. I'll be out of town from the 16th to the 19th, so I won't be able to listen to them until I get back. The "B -stock" is actually new but they just put too much polyfill inside and you need to pull the woofer and move it around so the woofer backwave can go out the rear port.

(I'll start another thread when they come in.)

Did you read this thread?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/87049-received-my-carnegie-csb1s-today-lot-people-wanted-know-what-i-thought.html

 

[charmerci]

Did you read this thread?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/87049-received-my-carnegie-csb1s-today-lot-people-wanted-know-what-i-thought.html

No, somehow I missed that. Thanks.

 

[ImcLoud]

No, somehow I missed that. Thanks.

I really like the csb1's, there aren't a ton of speakers that have just shocked me, from the service {gr research}, to the packaging {well packaged, come with pins connectors and velour covers}, to the fit and finish {flawless all sides piano, magnetic grills, flush connectors, sloped front, ect}, and of course the sound {huge stage, highs and mids are everything I look for, neutral and defined with no harshness....}....

But like I said, impressed from start to finish is very nice, and to get it got $400 is a nice treat. I am not the type to rave about everything I purchase, I spent a good amount on Wharfedale dentons, and while I love them for their throwback looks, and they have a strong mid and top end with a really good overall sound, they didn't awe me, there is nothing you can pull them apart about, they are crystal clear, well balanced, and nice, but nothing striking about them except the fit and finish {spectacular little speaker in them aspects} but nothing to set them apart from other speakers that cost less.... Also I tried the new JBL books, again, nice speaker {fit and finish not as impressive as others and I am not a fan of the look, a little futuristic to me, I tend to go the other way}, mids were nice, highs were OK, defined well but I didn't think they melted together with the rest of the speaker good enough {in other words, you could tell the highs were coming from the tweeter, I want the sound to come from the speaker as one}... Also bought a pair of TADS a while back and thought my ascend 170s and 340s sounded better for 1/3rd the price.....

Anyway so I don't like everything I buy, some more than others, and being shocked out of the box and happy with every aspect of a speaker purchase means you didn't give anything up, price, looks, service, and sound-happy, happy, happy, happy... can't get better than that.. I paired mine with a pair of svs sealed subs and crossed them above 80, they sound better than towers I have heard that cost thousands more...

 

[charmerci]

I really like the csb1's, there aren't a ton of speakers that have just shocked me, from the service {gr research}, to the packaging {well packaged, come with pins connectors and velour covers}, to the fit and finish {flawless all sides piano, magnetic grills, flush connectors, sloped front, ect}, and of course the sound {huge stage, highs and mids are everything I look for, neutral and defined with no harshness....}....

But like I said, impressed from start to finish is very nice, and to get it got $400 is a nice treat. I am not the type to rave about everything I purchase, I spent a good amount on Wharfedale dentons, and while I love them for their throwback looks, and they have a strong mid and top end with a really good overall sound, they didn't awe me, there is nothing you can pull them apart about, they are crystal clear, well balanced, and nice, but nothing striking about them except the fit and finish {spectacular little speaker in them aspects} but nothing to set them apart from other speakers that cost less.... Also I tried the new JBL books, again, nice speaker {fit and finish not as impressive as others and I am not a fan of the look, a little futuristic to me, I tend to go the other way}, mids were nice, highs were OK, defined well but I didn't think they melted together with the rest of the speaker good enough {in other words, you could tell the highs were coming from the tweeter, I want the sound to come from the speaker as one}... Also bought a pair of TADS a while back and thought my ascend 170s and 340s sounded better for 1/3rd the price.....

Anyway so I don't like everything I buy, some more than others, and being shocked out of the box and happy with every aspect of a speaker purchase means you didn't give anything up, price, looks, service, and sound-happy, happy, happy, happy... can't get better than that.. I paired mine with a pair of svs sealed subs and crossed them above 80, they sound better than towers I have heard that cost thousands more...

Errrrrr. Now you've done it. I had to delay shipping since I'm going out of town and now I'm super anxious to get them. Thanks a lot!

 

[2ndammendment]

I really like the csb1's, there aren't a ton of speakers that have just shocked me, from the service {gr research}, to the packaging {well packaged, come with pins connectors and velour covers}, to the fit and finish {flawless all sides piano, magnetic grills, flush connectors, sloped front, ect}, and of course the sound {huge stage, highs and mids are everything I look for, neutral and defined with no harshness....}....

But like I said, impressed from start to finish is very nice, and to get it got $400 is a nice treat. I am not the type to rave about everything I purchase, I spent a good amount on Wharfedale dentons, and while I love them for their throwback looks, and they have a strong mid and top end with a really good overall sound, they didn't awe me, there is nothing you can pull them apart about, they are crystal clear, well balanced, and nice, but nothing striking about them except the fit and finish {spectacular little speaker in them aspects} but nothing to set them apart from other speakers that cost less.... Also I tried the new JBL books, again, nice speaker {fit and finish not as impressive as others and I am not a fan of the look, a little futuristic to me, I tend to go the other way}, mids were nice, highs were OK, defined well but I didn't think they melted together with the rest of the speaker good enough {in other words, you could tell the highs were coming from the tweeter, I want the sound to come from the speaker as one}... Also bought a pair of TADS a while back and thought my ascend 170s and 340s sounded better for 1/3rd the price.....

Anyway so I don't like everything I buy, some more than others, and being shocked out of the box and happy with every aspect of a speaker purchase means you didn't give anything up, price, looks, service, and sound-happy, happy, happy, happy... can't get better than that.. I paired mine with a pair of svs sealed subs and crossed them above 80, they sound better than towers I have heard that cost thousands more...

How would you say the csb1s compare to the cbm170s? A local forum member has a pair of csb1s and might let me come buy and give them a listen. If I like them I will buy a b-stock pair.

 

[charmerci]

How would you say the csb1s compare to the cbm170s? A local forum member has a pair of csb1s and might let me come buy and give them a listen. If I like them I will buy a b-stock pair.

From above on the first page -

Did you read this thread?
http://forums.audioholics.com/forums/general-av-discussions/87049-received-my-carnegie-csb1s-today-lot-people-wanted-know-what-i-thought.html

He said

"After about 25 minutes of listening I moved to "everyday" music, my music test playlist, I went rite though all 46 minutes of it, before my wife asked if I was ever coming up stairs.. The speakers are void of anything unmusical, every sound they made did the job, they are warm, throw a really good sound stage, I imagine with the matching center these would make a great HT set and handle a medium room with no trouble... They seem to like power and that wasn't a problem since I had 400w on tap, but in a few days I will try them with the avr and see how they behave...

The low end is on line with what I expect from a bookshelf, I will compare the low end to the cbm170s giving the csb1's the win not because they go lower {I dont think they do} but because what they do, do the do better... but against the sierra 1's the csbs can not compare to the bass the sierras make... Although that is the only place I can say I prefer the sierras, the mids and highs sound better with the csb'1... It a close race, but I think for the msrp I would go with the sierras, BUT for the $399 there is no thought required the csb'1 are well worth the price, the sierras are not worth twice the csb's sale price, not even close.."

 

[2ndammendment]

Ok so just to bring those who are interested up to speed, my journey for a bookshelf speaker has come to an end for now. A local forum member was nice enough to let me come by and listen to his CSB-1s. I ordered them today. We compared them to the ARX A1b. The A1b's had a more detailed midrange, the woofer overall seemed a bit better but the tweeter on the CSB-1 is more detailed. The CSB-1s also have a bit more bass. Basically, the CSB-1s are a bit better overall, and they are a nicer looking speaker so I decided to go for it. I definitely wouldn't consider buying the CSB-1s full price but the for the B-stock price they seem reasonable. I will have to pull the drivers out of the CSB-1s to fix the polyfill anyways so I might remove the drivers from the other speakers as well in order to do a comparison between their construction. I can post pics if there is interest. Once I have the CSB-1s in hand I will do a full summary complete with ranking each speaker in terms of brightness, detail, bass output, imaging etc. A lot of it will be biased of my memory and notes so it may not be super detailed as I don't want to say something if I am not sure about it.