Harman Kardon Beats Denon

[wire]

I will plainly say, they are not any different in terms of quality, period.

In the Amp section or the DACs ?

 

[Seth=L]

In the Amp section or the DACs ?

Both, you big doofus.

 

[no. 5]

In the Amp section or the DACs ?

I cannot imagine a mainstream amplifier, or receiver manufacture allowing their product to have a "sound"; because if it's not neutral (i.e. no "sound") the manufacture will have limited their market share, because some speakers will interact poorly with whatever is giving the amp its "sound".

And as for the DAC's, if a manufacture knows how to put excellent DAC's in its flagship receiver, why would they suddenly fall into incompetence when putting them into their less costly receivers?

Now, please don't get me wrong, I do not think that every amplifier and DAC in the world sounds identical, but I do think that if the designer wants to, it is well within his or her power to make a sonically neutral device.

 

[wire]

Both, you big doofus.

Well , I think there is difference in the above Yammy Pro amp shown in the pic and the Amp sections in the loved by to many Yammy recievers .

 

[wire]

I cannot imagine a mainstream amplifier, or receiver manufacture allowing their product to have a "sound"; because if it's not neutral (i.e. no "sound") the manufacture will have limited their market share, because some speakers will interact poorly with whatever is giving the amp its "sound".

And as for the DAC's, if a manufacture knows how to put excellent DAC's in its flagship receiver, why would they suddenly fall into incompetence when putting them into their less costly receivers?

Now, please don't get me wrong, I do not think that every amplifier and DAC in the world sounds identical, but I do think that if the designer wants to, it is well within his or her power to make a sonically neutral device.

Im just not sure where Seth is taking this ? Or what he is saying exactly , all im saying is Yammy's amp sections are not that good .

 

[PENG]

Im just not sure where Seth is taking this ? Or what he is saying exactly , all im saying is Yammy's amp sections are not that good .

It sounded like you were implying all Yammy's amp sections are not that good. May be you didn't mean it that way, may be you did.

 

[Seth=L]

Well , I think there is difference in the above Yammy Pro amp shown in the pic and the Amp sections in the loved by to many Yammy recievers .

I didn't say that the amplifiers in the Yamaha receivers where as beefy as the one in that Amplifier. The amplifier is an amplifier, hence a receiver can't possibly match it in terms of two channel performance, maybe a few select flagship receivers could, but not much.

I don't know why you don't know what I am getting at, so I will say it simply one more time for you. Yamaha amplifier sections are not inferior to their competitors. You mentioned an Integrated amplifier by Denon, that is an apples to oranges comparison, hence void. You bring some quantifiable evidence to show that Yamaha has inferior amplifier sections in a majority of their receivers, not just a few you found that aren't up to par.

Is that clear enough for you?

 

[wire]

I didn't say that the amplifiers in the Yamaha receivers where as beefy as the one in that Amplifier. The amplifier is an amplifier, hence a receiver can't possibly match it in terms of two channel performance, maybe a few select flagship receivers could, but not much.

I don't know why you don't know what I am getting at, so I will say it simply one more time for you. Yamaha amplifier sections are not inferior to their competitors. You mentioned an Integrated amplifier by Denon, that is an apples to oranges comparison, hence void. You bring some quantifiable evidence to show that Yamaha has inferior amplifier sections in a majority of their receivers, not just a few you found that aren't up to par.

Is that clear enough for you?

its clear as long as you see how undesirable some of the Yammy receiver amp sections can acually be .

 

[Seth=L]

its clear as long as you see how undesirable some of the Yammy receiver amp sections can acually be .

And how undesirable some of the Harman Kardon amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Onkyo amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Denon amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Marantz amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Pioneer amplifier sections are.....etc.

Every manufacturer has some receivers and amplifiers that aren't up to snuff at times, SO WHAT?

The way you put it sounds like "every Yamaha receiver has poor amplifier sections in them", well sir, you are just plain wrong.

 

[jagxtype]

i will let you know how a avr 635 from HK sounds around next week or so

 

[mtrycrafts]

i will let you know how a avr 635 from HK sounds around next week or so

It better sound the same as other good amps do. Or, there is something wrong someplace.

 

[yettitheman]

its clear as long as you see how undesirable some of the Yammy receiver amp sections can acually be .

Ok... how can I see or distinguish or tell how a desirable amplifier section differs from an undesirable amplifier section? For that matter, how about the pre-amplification section? How about the power supply section?

You seem to be the expert on this, so I want you to tell all of us how blind we have been, and impart your wisdom on us ignorant folks

 

[Seth=L]

Ok... how can I see or distinguish or tell how a desirable amplifier section differs from an undesirable amplifier section? For that matter, how about the pre-amplification section? How about the power supply section?

You seem to be the expert on this, so I want you to tell all of us how blind we have been, and impart your wisdom on us ignorant folks

I have been waiting for him to impart his wisdom, but he apparently wants to keep it all to himself.

 

[Pipelayer]

Seth, that EQ worked out fine just the way you said. Thanks again!

 

[wire]

And how undesirable some of the Harman Kardon amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Onkyo amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Denon amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Marantz amplifier sections are, and how undesirable some of the Pioneer amplifier sections are.....etc.

Every manufacturer has some receivers and amplifiers that aren't up to snuff at times, SO WHAT?

The way you put it sounds like "every Yamaha receiver has poor amplifier sections in them", well sir, you are just plain wrong.

I cant say we did the the comparison on a Yammy reciever and a Denon 2 channel , with the same speaks and cd player . The advertised watts where , just not in same league and the SQ and power went 100 % in the Denons favor .
I dont have access to equipment anymore ( nor do i want to ) , I have did comparisons on Power amps . because i own quite a few different brands and designs over the years .
Its just my experence with Yammy for over 20 + years , and my experence with Amps .
The Tech has never changed with Amps , a 20 year old amp is very similar to a new amp . I know you love these Yammys , not sure why , there just a mass produced Amp and always have been .

 

[wire]

Ok... how can I see or distinguish or tell how a desirable amplifier section differs from an undesirable amplifier section? For that matter, how about the pre-amplification section? How about the power supply section?

You seem to be the expert on this, so I want you to tell all of us how blind we have been, and impart your wisdom on us ignorant folks

Just Crank it up and see what you think , push the Amp section abit don't be scared your going to blow your expensive tweets out . .

 

[Seth=L]

Just Crank it up and see what you think , push the Amp section abit don't be scared your going to blow your expensive tweets out . .

It's like trying to reason with a brick wall with you isn't it?

How many times do I have to say it, you are comparing a Denon "Integrated amplifier (orange)" to a Yamaha "receiver (apple)". I wouldn't expect them to meet the same standard and neither should you.

Compare these two "RECEIVERS".

Denon DRA-297

Yamaha RX-397

Do a level matched DBT on those, and then you might have some ground to stand on.

I am not a "fan" of Yamaha, and I am not a "fan" of Denon. If anything I am a fan of Onkyo at the moment, because they offer the best bang for buck.

We can go round and round but the fact remains, you have not presented one valid argument. Nothing you have said will stick.

 

[Seth=L]

Seth, that EQ worked out fine just the way you said. Thanks again!

Glad to hear it is working.

And as much as I hate to do so, I must debate with you as well. Given the accoustic environment displayed in the picture it would indicate that you have no soundstage. Also I know you just got those speakers and you say they sound great, and maybe they do. I am wondering what your basis was for the Denon sounding far better than even flagship models from other manufacturers? With a poor acoustic environment, and only a little use with those speakers (which dictate the sound far more than any receiver can or will) one should not assume that the receiver is affecting the sound quality.

Let me know on that.

 

[no. 5]

Its just my experence with Yammy for over 20 + years , and my experence with Amps .

How many specific Yamaha models have have you had experience with in the last 20+ years?

I have little doubt that a high quality integrated amplifier could have better sound quality than a mass market stereo receiver, but are you certain that the audible difference you heard was due to the brand name and not market each was intended to compete in? What did the power supplies look like? Was the comparison level matched?

I know you love these Yammys , not sure why , there just a mass produced Amp and always have been .

What about the RX-Z9? The AVR-1508?

 

[Seth=L]

What about the RX-Z9? The AVR-1508?

The Denon AVR-1508 wins hands down.