GR Research Hot topic?

[lovinthehd]

Sometimes you have to ignore people and try and experiment by yourself. I'been building speakers since 1986 and what he says about parts quality is correct. I've rebuilt crossovers with better parts and you definitely will hear a difference. I no longer "upgrade" speakers, I just build them myself. Don't knock it before you try it. Obviously some people haven't tried it themselves. Remember one thing, speaker response has nothing to do with clarity.
Good luck and let me know how your experiment works out for you.

Love to see your before and after measurements backing up the "upgrade". Define clarity, tho.

 

[D Murphy]

Sometimes you have to ignore people and try and experiment by yourself. I'been building speakers since 1986 and what he says about parts quality is correct. I've rebuilt crossovers with better parts and you definitely will hear a difference. I no longer "upgrade" speakers, I just build them myself. Don't knock it before you try it. Obviously some people haven't tried it themselves. Remember one thing, speaker response has nothing to do with clarity.
Good luck and let me know how your experiment works out for you.

Speaking as someone who has been messing with speakers for at leas long as you, I have never heard any sonic improvement from upgrading crossover parts, nor have I seen any scientific evidence that would even suggest that I should. The burden of proof is on those who claim expensive resistors, capacitors, and inductors make a difference. So far, no one has met that test.

 

[Milty]

Speaking as someone who has been messing with speakers for at leas long as you, I have never heard any sonic improvement from upgrading crossover parts, nor have I seen any scientific evidence that would even suggest that I should. The burden of proof is on those who claim expensive resistors, capacitors, and inductors make a difference. So far, no one has met that test.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

 

[ryanosaur]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

Actually, he knows a lot more than you are willing to consider, apparently.
This is one of his Speakers:

Philharmonic Audio BMR Philharmonitor Bookshelf Speaker Review

Philharmonic Audio's BMR Philharmonitors use a 3-way design with a very special driver outlay that has audio enthusiasts excited about the potential performance advantages that it could offer Read on.

www.audioholics.com

 

[lovinthehd]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

LOL that's some funny sh*t.

 

[kevintomb]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

I think you said that comment to the wrong guy for sure. I completely respect what Dennis has done for the DIY and audio community, and think he knows what he is talking about for sure.
I do not say that as an "Appeal to authority" argument, but I know for myself in my electronics education, and experience, what he says completely matches my work in electronics and speakers completely

It is up to YOU to prove what you claim.

 

[Alex2507]

I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's.

Mine's bigger than yours.

 

[Swerd]

Sometimes you have to ignore people and try and experiment by yourself.

If you 'experiment by yourself' you will only demonstrate that you can easily fool yourself. This has already been done many times before.

You must have more people than just yourself to answer questions about differences in sound quality due to any audio component, including different brands of capacitors or resistors. These are called a blind listening tests. They must be done with a number of listeners who are unaware of the brand or type of the crossover parts. Large numbers of repetitions are required for useful conclusions, as well as scientific controls to identify the number of answers that are false negatives or false positives.

Blind listening tests have been done before for capacitors or resistors. (Inductors were not tested.) Their unavoidable conclusion was that no one could hear differences between different capacitors or resistors. Many people who participated didn't like that conclusion, but they couldn't argue with the data.

I'been building speakers since 1986 and what he says about parts quality is correct. I've rebuilt crossovers with better parts and you definitely will hear a difference.

The only thing that's blind about your comments is your blind insistence that 'better parts' will definitely make an audible difference. Do you also believe that silver speaker cables insulated with Teflon impart a superior sound quality? Arguing that high priced crossover components can do that is on similar shaky ground.

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about.

Don't insult others you don't know. It never helps you make your case.

If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components.

So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters.

First you talked about passive crossover components, and then you switched to receivers. If your arguments seem weak, moving the goalposts also won't help convince anyone.

 

[TLS Guy]

Speaking as someone who has been messing with speakers for at leas long as you, I have never heard any sonic improvement from upgrading crossover parts, nor have I seen any scientific evidence that would even suggest that I should. The burden of proof is on those who claim expensive resistors, capacitors, and inductors make a difference. So far, no one has met that test.

You are absolutely correct Dennis. What is required is competently made components that are within acceptable tolerance of the values stated.

 

[j_garcia]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

LMFAO. Feels like the Joe Montana Guinness commercial. Of course not everyone would know a legend if you don't know their particular talent, but it is still funny when people spout off to someone they don't know and look like a jackweed.

 

[TLS Guy]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

It is you talking at of the wrong end of your anatomy. I suspect that you are connected with that GR research outfit. When I see you offer a crossover kit to improve ATC speakers, I know you are a fraud. I know the owner Billy Woodman and have visited his factory in Stroud Gloucestershire. I can assure you that there is absolutely nothing wrong with ATC's crossover components. Somehow I think it likely there will be if they muck around with one of your kits.

I would bet big money, that my system is significantly superior to yours or Danny's. My system is grounded in science and robust sound engineering principles and not voodoo.

 

[NINaudio]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

Is ignorance truly bliss?

 

[KenM10759]

He started off doing videos with new record day. I haven’t watched much of his stuff since he split away. I think it was around the time of the Klipsch mod for the 8000f…
Regardless, yes, he is one of those people who think electrons need to be massaged, petted and cooed to.

No, he was doing videos long before he met Ron from New Record Day. I don't like that GR Research guy at all. NRD, guy seems OK.

 

[Will Brink]

That's all I need to hear. Once that line has been crossed anything else said is automatically suspect in my mind.

I used watch his vids with some regularity, and whether I totally agreed with the need to upgrade speakers with better X over parts etc, I did enjoy his breakdowns of speakers and their measurements and such. I was surprised and disappointed when he then started claiming cables, and especially power cables (that one drives me especuallly crazy) and speaker wire could impact the audio. Seems like a good guy, obviously knowledgeable, but also prone to expectation bias that cables etc can impact the audio. I had some back ad forth with him on a vid, and he claimed they tested under blinded conditions and could hear the differences. Obviously those are not truly blinded tests done correctly. I want to put together a 10K challenge with Gene and or Amir at audio science that will do a legit blinded test. I wonder if anyone would accept? Would be the easiest 10K I ever made...

 

[Will Brink]

Watched both videos and I just don't know that to make out of it. If the speaker, say the SVS Ultra bookshelf sounds good and crossover is well designed but with what he calls "cheap parts" then what's the difference? What is the speaker going up fail in 2 months because I don't think so.
If it's designed well with the parts they chose what the heck is the difference?

Sent from my Pixel 4 XL using Tapatalk

Two issues: One, simply getting value for $. I'm amazed at the cheapest componentts used in speakers that are not inexpensive, and I enjoy him examining that and calling them out on it. If you purchased a Rolex, and it kept perfect time, and you found out someone had swapped out the movement for a cheap Seiko movement, would you have a "what the heck is the difference?" response on that? I know I would not. If I'm paying X for a speaker, I don't want to see the cheapest possible components inside regardless of how it sounds, unless it's a cheapo speaker.

Second, in some instances his changing X over components, adding more dampening materials, slight changes in where the X over frequency happens, does seem to result in improved objective performance. In that case, for some, perhaps worth purchasing and installing his upgrade kits. That's up to the person and how much with want to invest in a speaker. Will it be audible? In some cases, it makes sense it should. For myself, I would not spend $300 to upgrade a $500 speaker.

As mentioned in another response, was dissapointed and surprised to see him go down the speaker wire/power cord rabbit hole.

 

[panteragstk]

Is ignorance truly bliss?

It is. It's difficult to be annoyed by stupid people when you're one of them.

 

[TLS Guy]

Two issues: One, simply getting value for $. I'm amazed at the cheapest componentts used in speakers that are not inexpensive, and I enjoy him examining that and calling them out on it. If you purchased a Rolex, and it kept perfect time, and you found out someone had swapped out the movement for a cheap Seiko movement, would you have a "what the heck is the difference?" response on that? I know I would not. If I'm paying X for a speaker, I don't want to see the cheapest possible components inside regardless of how it sounds, unless it's a cheapo speaker.

Second, in some instances his changing X over components, adding more dampening materials, slight changes in where the X over frequency happens, does seem to result in improved objective performance. In that case, for some, perhaps worth purchasing and installing his upgrade kits. That's up to the person and how much with want to invest in a speaker. Will it be audible? In some cases, it makes sense it should. For myself, I would not spend $300 to upgrade a $500 speaker.

As mentioned in another response, was dissapointed and surprised to see him go down the speaker wire/power cord rabbit hole.

How do you know? It is hit and miss at best. The crossover models include, for instance, the resistance of the inductor you select. It certainly happens that choosing a cheaper inductor with smaller wire and higher resistance, is a smarter choice than specking a more expensive inductor. It is smarter, because you buy a cheaper inductor and save the expense of a series resistor. This also has the advantage of reducing the percentage tolerance, (error if you like), to one component and not two.
I just suspect this eludes the folks at GR, and they mindlessly believe changing an inductor to one with 'designer' aesthetics and fatter wire, is automatically better. That reasoning is false. So they need to show by circuit models and measurements of the final result that it really is an upgrade. I suspect it is often a downgrade.

 

[highfigh]

You obviously have no clue what you're talking about. If component quality and material didn't matter there would be no difference between any audio components. So you really think that there is no difference is sound quality between a $100 receiver and a $5000 receiver? They both do the same thing just with different transformers, capacitors and resisters. You probably believe MTX speakers are sonically the same as B&W's. You don't have to believe a word I say but I bet your system doesn't sound as good as mine or Danny's. Have a nice day. Lol

This is the online equivalent of "Oh, yeah?".

BTW- a $100 and $5K receiver sound different because the circuits are different, not because of most components. You know, good circuit design vs bad circuit design. Or maybe, you don't know the difference.

My dog is better than your dog. So, there.

You don't know who you're talking to- his crossover and speaker designs have been well-regarded for many years- who knows about yours, aside from a small circle?

 

[Will Brink]

How do you know? It is hit and miss at best. The crossover models include, for instance, the resistance of the inductor you select. It certainly happens that choosing a cheaper inductor with smaller wire and higher resistance, is a smarter choice than specking a more expensive inductor. It is smarter, because you buy a cheaper inductor and save the expense of a series resistor. This also has the advantage of reducing the percentage tolerance, (error if you like), to one component and not two.
I just suspect this eludes the folks at GR, and they mindlessly believe changing an inductor to one with 'designer' aesthetics and fatter wire, is automatically better. That reasoning is false. So they need to show by circuit models and measurements of the final result that it really is an upgrade. I suspect it is often a downgrade.

He does usually show before and after measurements. How audible they are I can't say. He's been a well known speaker designer for a number of companies and well regarded from what I have heard.

 

[lovinthehd]

He does usually show before and after measurements. How audible they are I can't say. He's been a well known speaker designer for a number of companies and well regarded from what I have heard.

I know he has made drivers and kits but haven't heard the designing for other companies particularly....what speakers are his design?