Getting a paradigm sub12 later today.

[Unobtainium]

I finally got around to actually cranking it up today.
Regardless of your appreciated input which I just read, I did switch the x-over twice today. I did it because when it gets rocking, the Emotiva draws a bunch of amps to play the 100's. Before, no issue as the line never sagged below 120v. Now, with both subs taking a share, and x-over to 50hz, the line sag was down to 117v. I figured the dsp amps are likely way better at bass, and went to 100hz x-over. It sounded better, and alleviated the sag issue almost completely. So, went to 150, more listening. Better again. That kept things in the 119-120v range, and sounded better again.
It sounded great at 50, but you could just tell there were subs on certain tracks. Not where, but the bottom sounded just a little off. I didn't notice much until I went higher. The upper bass cleaned up, and had more punch. This made the lower stuff sound more "attached". The general idea is that they sound like a very big speaker now. Upper bass is much improved.
Seems like a shame with the 100's, but it certainly works.
I remembered Warp saying his subs were flat to 200hz, and so were the 12's.
Not sure how it would have sounded, but knowing this, I might have gotten 60's with dual 15's for about the same money.
Thanks for the insight though. It makes sense as to why it sounds better.
Still going to play around a bit, but I had forgotten how Daft Punk sounded so powerful. (homework) Without cranking it to the moon, the subs really brought up the game so to speak. Never heard any complaints, and the gear was doing 110-115 with peaks reaching 120dB on the RS digital. The higher x-over does seem to take a little attention away from my room's natural 20hz gain.
The "punch" is very close to what I had in mind when handing over the money for this stage of the upgrade.

 

[Warpdrv]

My subs are flat all the way up to 500hz..... I'm not sure what those Sub12's are good up to but its likely they have a low pass in place... either way, your scenario is the perfect example of how to get the most out of that system...

 

[Unobtainium]

My subs are flat all the way up to 500hz..... I'm not sure what those Sub12's are good up to but its likely they have a low pass in place... either way, your scenario is the perfect example of how to get the most out of that system...

I remember a wild dip just after 200hz, so not sure what it was.
I just remember the gentle slope from 20 hz all the way to 200 basically.
Thanks to all who made suggestions, it is appreciated. Getting the best out of what you have is key to continued enjoyment.
I hope the sub that gave up just requires work at the dealer...
Shipping back to PD would take another 2 weeks plus the fix.
It's as dead as a door knob, no light, no sound, nadda.
The single left one still sounds good though, amazing how it makes my BPS400 seem so "off". That is not a horrible sub in any way.
Oh well, down the road with it...

 

[Unobtainium]

Just spoke with the installer and a new amp is on the way. My luck...

 

[sconners]

NHT Sub B-12d

I have owned this sub for 60 days and love it. I had owned the NHT Sub Two. The price is a very reasonable without the rebate. I turned in my old Sub two and also got a $200 rebate. i am not a professional, just know I like it very much.

 

[ntrain42]

I finally got around to actually cranking it up today.
Regardless of your appreciated input which I just read, I did switch the x-over twice today. I did it because when it gets rocking, the Emotiva draws a bunch of amps to play the 100's. Before, no issue as the line never sagged below 120v. Now, with both subs taking a share, and x-over to 50hz, the line sag was down to 117v. I figured the dsp amps are likely way better at bass, and went to 100hz x-over. It sounded better, and alleviated the sag issue almost completely. So, went to 150, more listening. Better again. That kept things in the 119-120v range, and sounded better again.
It sounded great at 50, but you could just tell there were subs on certain tracks. Not where, but the bottom sounded just a little off. I didn't notice much until I went higher. The upper bass cleaned up, and had more punch. This made the lower stuff sound more "attached". The general idea is that they sound like a very big speaker now. Upper bass is much improved.
Seems like a shame with the 100's, but it certainly works.
I remembered Warp saying his subs were flat to 200hz, and so were the 12's.
Not sure how it would have sounded, but knowing this, I might have gotten 60's with dual 15's for about the same money.
Thanks for the insight though. It makes sense as to why it sounds better.
Still going to play around a bit, but I had forgotten how Daft Punk sounded so powerful. (homework) Without cranking it to the moon, the subs really brought up the game so to speak. Never heard any complaints, and the gear was doing 110-115 with peaks reaching 120dB on the RS digital. The higher x-over does seem to take a little attention away from my room's natural 20hz gain.
The "punch" is very close to what I had in mind when handing over the money for this stage of the upgrade.

Bro, at the volume levels you just cranked that system too, I would have also have said to use a much higher xover point. You were doing 110-115db rms levels with 120db peaks(the RS digital is an SPL meter I assume?)? You most certainly were clipping the main amp and speakers. Thats just insane volume levels none of that equipment is designed for. At that type of volume levels Im sure those towers did sound better with a higher crossover point. Jesus running 1-2 watts rms with those speakers is equal roughly to a motorcycle or lawnmower. At the volume levels you were using those speakers at though your looking at temp. and permanent hearing loss depending on how long you had em cranked up that high.

My recommendations were and are made under normal listening conditions. At rock concert levels, even I would throw out my own recommendations. If thats the volume you want and crave on even a semi regular basis, then trade out your XPA-2, grab a pair of XPA-1's, and find yourself some high efficiency speakers that can take a good chunk of power.

On a side note in regards to those 100's. The tuning point on the port is just over 20hz, just like the older versions of the 100's. Using a xoverpoint around 50hz is still IMO the best point for those speakers under normal recommended volume levels(that means 1-2 watts rms at most well under 100db in room). Going higher is fine if your going to really beat the cr@p outta those speakers, but a higher sub xover point will lead to localization and lower the soundstage. When your at or over 100hz on a sub, it will draw the soundstage down towards them. One of my 2 channel systems that feature a pair of small monitors, I actually do use a 120hz xover point(I run dual 15's on that system). But the subs are also sealed downfiring units which significantly reduces localization effects. Front firing subs don't have that advantage(but then again, I guess if your really blasting your system, this probably doesnt even matter).

 

[ntrain42]

I remember a wild dip just after 200hz, so not sure what it was.
I just remember the gentle slope from 20 hz all the way to 200 basically.
Thanks to all who made suggestions, it is appreciated. Getting the best out of what you have is key to continued enjoyment.
I hope the sub that gave up just requires work at the dealer...
Shipping back to PD would take another 2 weeks plus the fix.
It's as dead as a door knob, no light, no sound, nadda.
The single left one still sounds good though, amazing how it makes my BPS400 seem so "off". That is not a horrible sub in any way.
Oh well, down the road with it...

If you were driving your main amp and speakers to clipping(which you most likely were if those spl levels are even remotely accurate), then you most certain were clipping those subs as well, as they require about 10 times the power to keep up with those 100's. I'm not surprised that you fried one. Might want to get another pair. Quad 12's would do you good. You definetly need the extra 6db of headroom without question.

 

[Warpdrv]

If you were driving your main amp and speakers to clipping(which you most likely were if those spl levels are even remotely accurate), then you most certain were clipping those subs as well, as they require about 10 times the power to keep up with those 100's. I'm not surprised that you fried one. Might want to get another pair. Quad 12's would do you good. You definetly need the extra 6db of headroom without question.

His amp gave up the farm because as anyone knows, electronics, if they are gunna take a dump, they do it very soon in their life or are solid for many many years to come... Clipping will engage the built in cut offs and should as designed shut down, if he drove them into destruction that why aren't both of them fried.... You are way off on your assumptions here.... Basically what your saying that is because he pushed the SLP's of these subs when they were crossed higher then 50hz - that is the reason one of them bought the farm....? Please

Again - I will ask you to post up pics of your setup/s and your measurements - playing off on your experiences and all knowing attitude, with nothing to back it up is nothing more then a poser IMO... put your money where your mouth is...

 

[ntrain42]

His amp gave up the farm because as anyone knows, electronics, if they are gunna take a dump, they do it very soon in their life or are solid for many many years to come... Clipping will engage the built in cut offs and should as designed shut down, if he drove them into destruction that why aren't both of them fried.... You are way off on your assumptions here.... Basically what your saying that is because he pushed the SLP's of these subs when they were crossed higher then 50hz - that is the reason one of them bought the farm....? Please

Again - I will ask you to post up pics of your setup/s and your measurements - playing off on your experiences and all knowing attitude, with nothing to back it up is nothing more then a poser IMO... put your money where your mouth is...

Your right, electronics can and will take a dump. Clipping will engage built in protection, but its not always a garentee it will do it before something gives up the farm like an output device. And to make things clear, Im not stating overdriving his equipment did in fact cause the burnout, but you sure can't rule it out.

So I need to post pics of my equipment or I am a poser? LOL! Are you 13 or something? LOL! OK sure, here is one pic of my old Salon's, Aragon monoblocks and Wadia 861se......... Below the Wadia is my Audiocontrol RTA 3055. I'll gladly post pics of my new main HT system once its completed. Should I post pics of my other 2 channel systems as well?

Would you like a picture of my fishy tank too? I'd let you stick your hand in it.

 

[Unobtainium]

There was no clipping boys. Sorry. When I tried the receiver, it clipped and shut down. The xpa-2 is fine. The Radio Shack SPL meter is what I was talking about. 5-6 times a year is about all I test stuff to those levels. The room is small with one open corner. Sorry I don't listen at 75 dB. Wouldn't spend all this money if I wasn't power hungry. I always yest stuff hard early to find weaknesses during warranty periods. 98.5% of the time, we watch as a family, so not very loud. New stuff needs to be ridden hard out of the gates.
The dealer didn't seem phased about the amp giving up. He said it usually happens quick or not at all.
When I demo'd the subs and speakers in their HT room, the levels were about the same with him at the helm.
The levels that were being reached were without obvious strain.
I know all about hearing loss. I teach it to the students to protect their hearing so they can ruin it at the bar instead...lol

 

[Warpdrv]

So I need to post pics of my equipment or I am a poser? LOL! Are you 13 or something?

Actually I just turned 15, but I'm starting to get an idea of why you come off so arrogantly like you do in these forums looking at those pics....

 

[Unobtainium]

The replacement amp is on the way. Hopefully quick so I can enjoy my dual subs again.
Going to start drawing up the plans for the basement theater over the next year. Next winter should see the start of buying and building. Got a bunch more reading to do still. There are 1001 different ways to go about it, lots of real helpful threads all over the net.

 

[Vaughan Odendaa]

Warp, are you really 15 ? Because I just turned 5.