Genesis Reunion

[supervij]

Sorry if this is old news, but I just saw this on the Bits:

"Phil Collins goes on record today to say that a Genesis reunion with Gabriel at the mike is a "possibility." We have already heard Gabriel state that he'd do it but not as a revisitiation of old material. Instead, a stipulation was that he'd do it, forward moving with new material. Now Hackett, Banks, and Rutherford need to get in line with their agreements and thoughts and everyone's schedule has to be trimmed to allow it to happen."

Oboyoboyoboy! New material from my favourite Genesis lineup! Please, O Gods of Prog, make this happen!

cheers,
supervij

EDIT: It's the "new material" stipulation from Peter about which I hadn't known (no one here mentioned it either, so I figured I'd mention it), thus my excitement for this news.

 

[gene]

It's the "new material" stipulation from Peter about which I hadn't known (no one here mentioned it either, so I figured I'd mention it), thus my excitement for this news.

Wow where did you hear this? Can you please list a link?

I can't see how this is possible, especially since Gabriel is releasing a new album and touring?

 

[supervij]

Peter's recording a new album? That's terrific, but realistically, it won't be ready for maybe a decade, right? And I'm sure his Growing Up Again Tour is over by now, so I'd say he probably does have the time.

Anyway, I saw the link, not at the Bits, as I had erroneously said, but at musictap: http://www.musictap.net/ Should still be on the home page. It's hardly official news, but if they said that they had previously heard this, then who knows?

cheers,
supervij

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Supervij, agree with your assessment of Dark Side vrs. The Video Show, as far as effect. However The Video Show is impressive sounding, and the details in some/most of the songs are so much more up front then ever before. Nick Davis has been mixing the Live DVD's (Invisible Touch tour sounds awesome in DTS), and the SACD's. He has done Trespass thru Wind & Wuthering to this point. Next up is ...and then there were three according to Nick.
There is so much news floating about a Genesis reunion. Mike & Phil on CNN last month, Steve Hackett talking to fans about the upcoming 'band' meeting on Nov. 20th. and then this, the unthinkable: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/8784854/genesis?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single1&rnd=1131583977686&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040
Gabriel has been ruling it out for years, and now suddenly he has a change of heart.
This is an exciting time to be a Genesis fan, and if you're not, you're missing out! They have made some great music over the years!

Mike

 

[supervij]

Oh man, I think I nearly peed myself with excitement reading that article! Thanks, Mike! I find it surprising that Steve is interested too. I always thought his disinterest in the band was a little bit personal, i.e., the others not putting his songs on the albums. Then again, he did turn up very briefly at the end of the reunion concert in '82.

And I completely agree with you about the impressive sound and detail put into the surround remixes for The Video Show. It was a lot of fun (uh oh, there's that word again) to listen to these songs again, and hear EVERYTHING. Nick did a terrific job: there was a lot of detail in the mix, and lots of things came to life, or rather more to life than the original CD mixes. These will obviously be the same surround mixes used in the upcoming SACDs, about which I'm a little bit disappointed. Like I said, as impressed as I was with the sound quality, I was hoping for something a little bit DSotM-calibre in regards to surround implementation. With Dark Side, I never felt as though the two rear channels were being ignored, but with TVS, there were many times when I did feel that way. Oh well, Nick still did a terrific job on remixing anyway, both the surround and the new stereo versions, and I'm still going to pick up the SACDs regardless.

Poor Ray Wilson! I'm sure he feels completely left out of the whole Genesis thing. Not his fault; it's just that a new voice that didn't grab the public like they hoped it would. Add to that some pretty sub-standard song writing on that last album -- I haven't listened to it in a long time, but watching The Video Show, I cringed at some of the awful writing of those three songs. (However, I do remember liking a few of the songs on the last album; I just don't remember which ones!) I'm not surprised Genesis folded after that album. Hopefully, the "new" lineup will inspire much better songs, a la "Watcher of the Skies" or "Supper's Ready" or something.

cheers,
supervij

 

[gene]

Poor Ray Wilson! I'm sure he feels completely left out of the whole Genesis thing.

He really didn't fit in. IMO, Genesis could not exist without Phil, not just b/c of his excellent drumming, but b/c he works extremely well with Mike/Tony and also keeps them in check. Personally I don't care for Tony's solo stuff at all despite him being a competent keyboard player. If you think about it, the best music each of them made is when they were together. Adding Gabriel and Hackett into the mix will certainly raise up the substance level and bring back the elements of progressive rock that have been missing for so long.

IMO, today's progressive rock, with the exception of Marillion, just doesn't do it for me. I can't stomach Dreamtheater (Bad singing/guitars, and uninspiring lyrics, and Porcupine Tree is barely tolerable, and the few others I have heard I wouldn't rush out to buy their CD's).

I Say bring back Genesis and bring Back Star Trek!

 

[supervij]

I dunno; I kinda liked Ray's voice. It was thick and the teensiest bit raspy and reminded me a bit of Peter's voice. Which would explain the band doing Gabriel-era songs at their shows.

Phil is an excellent drummer, but I wonder why Tony and Mike didn't recruit Chester to play on the last album. I'm sure without Phil, Mike's and particularly Tony's songs would all be monumentally long epics. Which isn't a bad thing, but one of Phil's strengths is his gift at arrangements. I've heard tales of early songs (like early 70s) that the band simply didn't know what to do with. And Phil would come in and say, "Why don't we put this bit here, that bit there, shorten this bit, get rid of this altogether, and join up these other bits doing this?" and voila -- instant classic Genesis song.

I think Tony's an amazing keyboardist. Watching his fingers go on songs like "Robbery, Assault & Battery" -- it's like a blur! He goes non-stop, and never misses a beat. I picked up his solo album Bankstatement years ago, and it was just okay. The only song that stood out was "Big Man", in which he sung lead vocals! Did a surprisingly good job too.

I can't remember who, but somebody once said that when Peter left the band, the fantasy left with him. And that when Steve left, the romance left as well. What remained was a very strong musical trio. And I think that's how I see them as well. Phil, Tony and Mike always came up with the best musical jams; it was the three of them who wrote the bulk of "Apocalypse in 9/8", if I remember. That's why, for me, Genesis songs post Wind & Wuthering, have really super strong music and not quite as strong lyrics and song ideas. When I think of those albums, I remember the music, not the lyrics. Whereas Genesis songs from W&W and earlier, I remember the lyrics more because the songs, lyrics and lyrical ideas were more interesting.

Gene, I tried to get into Porcupine Tree. I listened to the Deadwing CD and just couldn't get into it. I watched some Dream Theatre concert on VHS and couldn't get into that either. Marillion and Genesis are just about the only ones to which I care to listen. Maybe that makes me a bad progger (as some of the boys on alt.music.marillion tell me!), but I know what I like. From the sound of the music to the lyrics to everything else, Marillion and Genesis are head and shoulders above the rest. In my opinion.

I Say bring back Genesis and bring Back Star Trek!

LOL! You actually made me laugh out loud for real with that one! I agree! Life was much more fun with both Genesis and Star Trek! Bring 'em back, I say!

cheers,
supervij

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Vij,

I believe that Mike & Tony didn't use Chester on CAS because he was busy at the time.
I do like a couple of tracks on CAS but it's tough to swallow for some reason. Dunno why..
Even though the Genesis makeup is more then just Phil Collins, he was really the face of the band. There have been poll's at the official G site on which band member's departure really impacted the band. The poll winner was Hackett. True I believe from a musical point of view, however, the band really could not successfully go on, or exist with out PC in my opinion.

Vij I think we are going to be surprised with The Lamb SACD. It was delayed heavily because of Peter's involvement. Straight from the horses mouth of no one else but Nick Davis, saying that Peter wanted a lot more use of the rear spekers, and effects! Bottom line is I hope the SACD's kick ***. I think I read the plan was that the entire G catalog will be realeased on SACD at the same time. Not only will I be poor from buying them, but will be in my 'man' room with the door locked for about a week! The wife can just deal with it. LOL

Mike

 

[supervij]

You're right about Phil being the face of the band. He's been the frontman for so long, that it doesn't feel quite like Genesis without him. What bigger impact could there be than Phil leaving? I mean, the next album bombed and the band broke up! Steve leaving was tough, but c'mon, by then, they were used to it: first Anthony, then Peter. But musically, the poll results are spot on. Totally different band they became after Steve, although I still believe that change was slowly happening even as far back as The Lamb.

I gotta say, Nick did a fine job with the remaster of Foxtrot -- that's the only remaster I picked up. Detail and clarity are superb. I'm glad he's the man in charge of the SACDs. Is Peter involved with all the Gabriel-era Genesis SACDs? I hope so. I'm encouraged by your mention that Peter wanted more effects and use of the rears. (I hope Nick takes this to heart and makes sure the other albums are similarly using surrounds to best effect.) After listening to Peter's Up surround SACD, I know The Lamb is going to kick *ss! I can't wait! The Lamb feels like it was made for surround sound. It's sort of Genesis' DSotM, y'know?

The entire Genesis catalog released on SACD all at once. Oh man. My poor bank account! How am I going to explain this to my girlfriend. Cos you know she's not going to see me for a good long while once I get these discs in my hot little hands. You think our gals will ever forgive us, Mike?

cheers,
supervij

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Vij, let me just start off by saying this: My wife hates Genesis (for the most part). Evertime some type of new release comes out I go into hiding for a week! LOL I will never be forgiven!
I am hoping and anticipating that the Lamb SACD will kick *ss. Peter was heavily involved. As a matter of fact it had been rumoured by Nick Davis and the Genesis Webmaster that the release of the SACD was to be in line with the 30 year anniversary of the Lamb's Nov. 1974 release. So about Sept. 04 is when it came to a screaching halt because Gabriel got involved.
That said, he was only involved on that album to my knowledge. There have been no comments about him being involved on others. Also, that was the first G album that Nick remixed for 5.1 surround. So perhaps Peter gave him some clear instruction for the albums prior to the Lamb. Dunno.
Nick has done a great job. When I got the Video Show and popped it into DTS mode, first track I went after was Misunderstanding because of its intro. I was not expecting that wall of sound! I compared it to the cd version and wow. Now, the DTS versions of what's on the video show dvd are still compressed quite a bit. Hopefully the SACD's will bring out the best of it all.
My poor bank acct. too... my wife is going to sh*t when that day comes, cause I'm buying the lot!

Mike

Edit: The Lamb is like DSOTM to PF, agree. For me its a draw on which is better.

 

[supervij]

First track I listened to off The Video Show was "The Carpet Crawlers '99". What a disappointment! I mean, the surround is okay, but what's with cutting the two last verses? Who's bonehead decision was that?! I know there are a lot of Phil-haters out there, but I really liked his singing the last verse on the Turn it on Again -- The Hits CD. And the ad-libs at the end of the song . . . I could be mistaken, but some of that was edited too. The visuals of the video are kinda interesting, but I hate when songs get edited when they didn't need it in the first place.

Given a choice between The Lamb and DSotM, I'd say Dark Side is a bit stronger. The Lamb's first disc is brilliant -- great tunes, great music, great storyline. But the second disc, honestly, I think the songs are weaker than the terrific songs on the first. The music is still great on that second disc, but the story gets kind of vague and confusing. And I hate for the ending of a story to be the weak link. So The Lamb for me starts out great and ends . . . good. Which is a bit of a letdown.

Whereas DSotM is great throughout. No weak spots anywhere. Music and songs are consistently top-notch. If there's a story in the entire album, I haven't noticed it, unless it's to do with insanity, but I'm unaware of an actual story that progresses throughout the length of the album.

Being a massive Genesis fan, it's strange to be pointing out weaknesses that I perceive in such a great album. I feel kinda like I'm betraying my beloved band. But honestly, Peter was pretty young when he wrote The Lamb. When I look back at the stuff I wrote in my early 20s, I cringe a little at the stuff I thought was super-cool, and I can see how I could have made things better. Which is not to say I think Peter or the band should change anything about the album; I just mean that with time comes more objective opinions on stuff.

But I'm still drooling at the thought of hearing it on SACD. I considered playing a few classic Genesis albums on PLIIx, just as a taster, but I reconsidered. I'll be getting the real thing soon enough.

cheers,
supervij

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Funny I was disappointed with CC'99 also. As far as TIOA and Man on the corner, Paperlate etc... they were originally Live recordings of those songs (which I actually have on Video volumes 1&2). When they went to do the dvd, they used the original studio recordings, hence a few things not matching up quite right. It's especially obvious in those three that I can think of. I would of liked for them to be their proper live versions but I think it would have messed with the continuity of the video show itself. Plus the original live recordings were probably only 2 channel DAT tapes. Wouldn't of been good for making a multichannel recording.
I hear you on DSOTM. I personally like all of the Lamb. I have heard a lot of people that don't care for side 2 from a storyline point of view. However I don't get caught up in the story so much as I just enjoy it musically.

Mike

 

[gene]

Personally I think if they do remaster the Lamb in SACD, they need to do away with some of the cheesy sound effects in some of the songs. While this is a great album, it could use some updating. The problem with most progressive rock in the 70's is they relied too much of keyboard sounds and effects which are now very outdated sounding. This is why most of ELP's music didn't hold up overtime.

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Interesting point gene. I guess time will tell. One note I do recall Nick Davis mentioning that as he was reviewing all 24 tracks of the Lamb he found a lot of stuff that wasn't even used originally. It remains unclear whether some of these sounds were used or not, or even if some of the the sounds that were used, are omitted from the SACD (which I would doubt).

Mike

 

[MikeEckhardt]

Well this is encouraging news:
Gabriel talks to Rolling Stone mag...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/8784854/genesis?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single1&rnd=1131583977686&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040

 

[jos_binne]

Dont tell anyone about your lack of culture

I can't stand their music, so a reunion wouldn't do much for me.

Hello buddy, if i'd be you, I would never express such a lack of culture to the whole planet

 

[supervij]

Ahhh, la belle province! Quebec is well known as having many more fans of prog rock per capita than most other provinces/states in North America. In fact, seeing The Musical Box, frankly, was much more enjoyable in Montreal than it was in Toronto. The people there were just so much more plugged into prog in general, and Genesis in particular . . . at least when I was there to see TMB's Selling England by the Pound tour. At that particular show, it felt like a community had gotten together to go to the arena; there was a genuine feeling of warmth from everybody there. (Except for those four Americans sitting behind me complaining that the lead singer wasn't speaking in "American" between songs! And that isn't a rag on Americans in general, just those four Americans specifically.) Whereas the Toronto show felt like any other concert. There was just something special about being in Montreal for a show like The Musical Box. (And Canadian fans of Marillion tell me the same thing!)

Hello buddy, if i'd be you, I would never express such a lack of culture to the whole planet

I'm just going to assume you forgot to include a smilie to indicate that you were just having fun with that comment; it happens. And welcome to the forum!

cheers,
supervij

 

[johndoe]

from PG's page

Well this is encouraging news:
Gabriel talks to Rolling Stone mag...

http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/_/id/8784854/genesis?pageid=rs.Home&pageregion=single1&rnd=1131583977686&has-player=true&version=6.0.12.1040

This is a quote from PG's web page "Tina's archives" (PG's official archivist/info updtader). Unfortunately it doesn't sound promising:

"Genesis Reunion
This has been the main topic of conversation recently and many of you have written in asking for the official word. I'm told that sadly, there is no truth in it; this rumour seems to come and go every few years and we think that this particular one has been fuelled by the fact that Phil, Peter and Steve Hackett have all been interviewed lately in connection with their solo careers and they are always asked about the Band. They all say the same thing; that they remain good friends and although there are no specific plans, they would not rule out the possibility at some time - although getting the five of them together would prove too hard given their various solo commitments."

you can check it our by yourselves at http://www.petergabriel.com/archive/

 

[supervij]

Dammit! I know these rumours come and go all the time, but this time I really started to believe! Sigh. I really should know better. Well, at least we have the SACDs to look forward to, even if there's no reunion.

Unless that's what they want us to think . . .

cheers,
supervij

 

[gene]

That is so weird, especially since he eluded to a reunion tour on Entertainment Tonight. I still have hopes Collins, Rutherford, Banks will get back together and tour with Chester and Daryl