Front and Rear presence speakers

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

Ok, thanks guys. Another question:

How do you set up your speakers? Meaning, which channels are you using for the 5 or 7 speakers with the Atmos/Presence set up? Since rear surrounds aren't being used in that set up?

 

[snakeeyes]

Ok, thanks guys. Another question:

How do you set up your speakers? Meaning, which channels are you using for the 5 or 7 speakers with the Atmos/Presence set up? Since rear surrounds aren't being used in that set up?

L/C/R

2 Rears (on sides of seating a bit behind, but you could also put them more behind if that works better in the room)

No surround back

2 Front Presence (heights) on front wall
2 Rear Presence (heights) on rear wall

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

Ok, thanks guys. Another question:

How do you set up your speakers? Meaning, which channels are you using for the 5 or 7 speakers with the Atmos/Presence set up? Since rear surrounds aren't being used in that set up?

Well I’m my case, they are all being used. I use a Marantz AVR which processes 11ch but only has amplification for 9. I use the preouts connected to my mains for full 7.x.4. In your case, although I’m not 100% familiar with your setup, I would use a 5ch bed layer and four heights speakers instead of 7ch bed with two height speakers. FWIW I hate that Yamaha still calls them presence channels. Nobody else does...

 

[Mark E. Long]

Well I’m my case, they are all being used. I use a Marantz AVR which processes 11ch but only has amplification for 9. I use the preouts connected to my mains for full 7.x.4. In your case, although I’m not 100% familiar with your setup, I would use a 5ch bed layer and four heights speakers instead of 7ch bed with two height speakers. FWIW I hate that Yamaha still calls them presence channels. Nobody else does...

A typical Yamaha manual for the last 25 years needs a multilingual interpreter with it’s own 1-800 number .

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

A typical Yamaha manual for the last 25 years needs a multilingual interpreter with it’s own 1-800 number .

Lmao! This is truth. They do make excellent gear, but why the need for proprietary language? Every AVR should have a decoder ring, or a translator.

 

[Mark E. Long]

Lmao! This is truth. They do make excellent gear, but why the need for proprietary language? Every AVR should have a decoder ring, or a translator.

Lol I agree it is excellent gear I still from time to time go through mine and find a setting and think dam that’s what this does only called something that has nothing to do with what I thought . This gets worse with each new model too !

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

More questions for you guys:

Any special speakers needed to run Atmos, or will any bookshelf speaker suffice? Obviously I'd buy a good quality set.

Also, any recommendations for an external amp for my RX-A2040 receiver?

I'm looking at upgrading the receiver in the next ~year or so to a newer Yamaha RX-A3080B most likely. And I'm replacing my front Soundstage in the next few months with Paradigm Premiere 800F Tower Speakers.

 

[snakeeyes]

More questions for you guys:

Any special speakers needed to run Atmos, or will any bookshelf speaker suffice? Obviously I'd buy a good quality set.

Also, any recommendations for an external amp for my RX-A2040 receiver?

I'm looking at upgrading the receiver in the next ~year or so to a newer Yamaha RX-A3080B most likely. And I'm replacing my front Soundstage in the next few months with Paradigm Premiere 800F Tower Speakers.

The 2040 has a lot of power actually. I don’t use an external amp on my 2060. My speakers are all 86dB and no issues to report running 9 speakers.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

The 2040 has a lot of power actually. I don’t use an external amp on my 2060. My speakers are all 86dB and no issues to report running 9 speakers.

I'm not worried about the power per channel, just want to be able to power more channels for a 7.2.4 set up.

 

[snakeeyes]

I'm not worried about the power per channel, just want to be able to power more channels for a 7.2.4 set up.

You don’t have that option on the 2040 to do anything other than 9ch but if you mean on a future receiver, I guess it makes sense to find out.

2040 cannot process more than 9 channels. (Just like my 2060)

One model up, the 3080 can process 11 channels but only power 9 internally.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

You don’t have that option on the 2040 to do anything other than 9ch but if you mean on a future receiver, I guess it makes sense to find out.

2040 cannot process more than 9 channels. (Just like my 2060)

One model up, the 3080 can process 11 channels but only power 9 internally.

I thought adding another amplifier would add more channels? Is that not the case? Here is a picture of the back of my receiver:

So, by plugging in the 2nd amp to the pre out of say the surround back, would that not re route the audio signal through the 2nd amp, allowing me to then also use the Front Atmos as well as the rear surround speakers, creating a 7 (L/C/R, Front Surround, Rear Surround) .2 (Subwoofers) .4 (Front and Rear Atmos/Presence)? Or would the 2nd amp not matter? Is my receiver limited to the 9.2 channels no matter how I run it? IE 7.2.2, 5.2.4

 

[snakeeyes]

I thought adding another amplifier would add more channels? Is that not the case? Here is a picture of the back of my receiver:

View attachment 47053

So, by plugging in the 2nd amp to the pre out of say the surround back, would that not re route the audio signal through the 2nd amp, allowing me to then also use the Front Atmos as well as the rear surround speakers, creating a 7 (L/C/R, Front Surround, Rear Surround) .2 (Subwoofers) .4 (Front and Rear Atmos/Presence)? Or would the 2nd amp not matter? Is my receiver limited to the 9.2 channels no matter how I run it? IE 7.2.2, 5.2.4

It’s confusing mostly because they share the same manual 2040 & 3040.

The 2000 series allows you to wire it and flip back and forth to different 9ch layouts (no preouts function for Atmos front or rear) however it can only process signal for 9 ch at a time even though 11 are wired. So that means 5.1.4 or 7.1.2

I would love to be wrong on this but I’m 95% confident I’m correct.

 

[William Lemmerhirt]

It’s confusing mostly because they share the same manual 2040 & 3040.

The 2000 series allows you to wire it and flip back and forth to different 9ch layouts (no preouts function for Atmos front or rear) however it can only process signal for 9 ch at a time even though 11 are wired. So that means 5.1.4 or 7.1.2

I would love to be wrong on this but I’m 95% confident I’m correct.

So imo, he should move his rear surrounds up into rear height position, and get another pair for front height duty. Make sure the surrounds are at ear height and have a nice 5.x.4 system. Until the AVR upgrade...

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

It’s confusing mostly because they share the same manual 2040 & 3040.

The 2000 series allows you to wire it and flip back and forth to different 9ch layouts (no preouts function for Atmos front or rear) however it can only process signal for 9 ch at a time even though 11 are wired. So that means 5.1.4 or 7.1.2

I would love to be wrong on this but I’m 95% confident I’m correct.

Ok, that makes sense. After thinking about it, I was thinking that was the case. It can only process 9 channels of audio no matter what. Adding an additional amp simply draws the power needed from the 2nd amp, but doesn't create additional audio channels.

Thanks.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

After more research, it looks like I'll be upgrading to (at least) an 11.2 AVR, which unfortunately the RX-A3080 is not. It's "only" 9.2

 

[snakeeyes]

There’s the 3080 Yamaha which still requires a 2ch amp to get you to 11ch.

There’s the 5200 Yamaha pre pro which would require the 11ch to all be covered by the matching Yamaha amp or another external amp.

Then there’s Denon which has the 3700 or 4700. A lot of people buy $20 external fans for these. The Marantz is basically identical to the Denon with a different faceplate as they share most of the same parts. Sound United makes both Denon and Marantz.

Just a disclaimer that all companies are seeing issues with HDMI2.1 this year but probably not important until 8K content becomes available. Likely 5 years from now at the earliest from the streaming apps. I don’t know if 8K discs would even be manufactured.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

There’s the 3080 Yamaha which still requires a 2ch amp to get you to 11ch.

There’s the 5200 Yamaha pre pro which would require the 11ch to all be covered by the matching Yamaha amp or another external amp.

Then there’s Denon which has the 3700 or 4700. A lot of people buy $20 external fans for these. The Marantz is basically identical to the Denon with a different faceplate as they share most of the same parts. Sound United makes both Denon and Marantz.

Just a disclaimer that all companies are seeing issues with HDMI2.1 this year but probably not important until 8K content becomes available. Likely 5 years from now at the earliest from the streaming apps. I don’t know if 8K discs would even be manufactured.

I just made a thread on the CX-A5200, not realizing that it doesn't have amps built in, and that you need the MX-A5200 to power it..........

I was looking around for the RX-A3080, but no one has it listed on their websites. I thought it was maybe discontinued.

 

[snakeeyes]

I just made a thread on the CX-A5200, not realizing that it doesn't have amps built in, and that you need the MX-A5200 to power it..........

I was looking around for the RX-A3080, but no one has it listed on their websites. I thought it was maybe discontinued.

Right the company that supplies HDMI2.1 repeater chips to all companies found an issue / defect in the chipset that may or (more likely may not) be fixable without returning an AVR for factory replacement of the chipset.


So Yamaha has their replacement AVRs on hold (the new models) until that issue is worked out. 3080 and 5200 are older and use HDMI2.0b, not HDMI2.1 as they are the prior models. I think some limited production of 3080 started up again.

Denon is still shipping some units but those seem to be hard to find too so maybe they are trying to limit production or possibly the other China made components are not being manufactured as fast due to production issues.

Edit: Denon/Marantz have an adapter for the 2.1 HDMI issues coming.

Denon & Marantz Introduce a FREE HDMI Adapter Kit To Solve 4K/120Hz & 8K Incompatibility Issue

In October 2020 Audioholics reported an HDMI issue between select Denon & Marantz receivers and latest Xbox gaming consoles. Sound United responded with a hardware fix for 4K/120Hz and 8k/60Hz support.

www.audioholics.com

 

[snakeeyes]

@AcuDefTechGuy is a dealer for both Yamaha and Denon. He might know more.

 

[}Fear_Inoculum{]

Well I’m my case, they are all being used. I use a Marantz AVR which processes 11ch but only has amplification for 9. I use the preouts connected to my mains for full 7.x.4. In your case, although I’m not 100% familiar with your setup, I would use a 5ch bed layer and four heights speakers instead of 7ch bed with two height speakers. FWIW I hate that Yamaha still calls them presence channels. Nobody else does...

Which Marantz are you using? I've seen another reference to receivers that have more channels than they amplify, but which ones are they and how can you determine that?