Firearms discussion - hardware only, no politics

[itschris]

That is a solid plan. I was fortunate enough to finish my build somewhere around june... I was able to build my rifle with top shelf components, with no wait time, for perfectly reasonable costs.

My first to attempts at builds with all available parts that I could actually get came to $1,900 and just under $2000. That's steep when you start adding in another $1k-1.5K for optics and other goodies.

There's a pretty big gun show supposed to go on here in January. I might see what I can find there as well.

 

[itschris]

That is a solid plan. I was fortunate enough to finish my build somewhere around june... I was able to build my rifle with top shelf components, with no wait time, for perfectly reasonable costs.

Tell me what you think... my local gun shop has a brand new DPMS .223 It's got a fairly nice adjustable stock and the rest seems pretty standard, with removable carry handle. Their asking $1,110. I'm thinking that's a good price for a completed gun these days. I can't even find parts available to build one for that price.

 

[Cpt.America]

Tell me what you think... my local gun shop has a brand new DPMS .223 It's got a fairly nice adjustable stock and the rest seems pretty standard, with removable carry handle. Their asking $1,110. I'm thinking that's a good price for a completed gun these days. I can't even find parts available to build one for that price.

Chris,

typical prices, I would say that is a HORRIBLE price. But.. factoring in the latest inflated prices due to Mr. Nobama's election, it is harder to say.

Honestly, I would spend more time looking around. If you can find a deal on a pre-built rifle, that would trump the "build it yourself" recommendation. I think the most important thing, is getting one before they are illigal to purchase. But in my opinion, that is not the rifle to get.

1. DPMS is a bottom tier AR manufacturer. Will it shoot? yes.. but they aren't all that nice. I have seen 16" DPMS A3 AR-15s go for $600 brand new. They just aren't all that.

2. I would stay away from any AR chambered in .223. Definily get an upper chambered in 5.56. Even though you will probably be purchasing .223 for it most of the time (its the cheapest), you want a rifle to be able to shoot 5.56 for all the reasons you cannot think of.

 

[itschris]

Got it. I'll keep looking. I guess I'm just starting to get a bit impatient

 

[itschris]

What do you think about this?

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_43&products_id=59

 

[Adam]

What do you think about this?

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_43&products_id=59

Nice looking gun. I like the built-in stand.

 

[Cpt.America]

What do you think about this?

http://www.spikestactical.com/z/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=41_43&products_id=59

Chris. In general, Spike's makes FANTASTIC A.R. parts. I am running their lower on my latest build, and it really doesn't get any better. Build quality AND fit/finish are A+. I don't however, have any experience with their uppers. I would hit up ar15.com and see if you can find any feedback on the quality of thier uppers.

The gun you linked to specifically... I think that might be a 9mm carbine? I didn't spend a ton of time looking, but I coudln't find any specific info on that pre-built gun. I would make sure to go with at least a 5.56 chambered rifle and it certainly wouldn't hurt to call them up directly for specific information. Also find out who makes the BCG in that rifle.. I don't think Spike's makes them, they might be using a diff brand (which would be just fine in most cases) In general... Spike's is really good stuff, (a whole league above dpms) and they are GREAT to work with.

 

[Cpt.America]

Here is a closeup of my spike's lower:

 

[itschris]

I spoke with them yesterday... availability is just about non-existant. I found an M&P but it was over $2k just for a plain jane ar. I'll just keep looking. I'll get lucky at some point.

 

[Gaigebacca]

My stash...

My current stash consists of...

Baby Desert Eagle .40 S&W w/ polymer body & tac rail
Bersa .380 auto (wife's gun)
Walther P99c (compact polymer body, nice little gun)

Ruger .22 rifle

Remington 700 25-06 bolt action rifle, with bird's eye stock (gorgeous gun with limited engraving of trophy animals all on the bottom ammo plate and along the top above the bolt) with a Leupold 3x9 crosshair w/dot scope

Russian made over/under 20 gauge shotgun

Still ever growing when ever I get the chance...

 

[itschris]

Well... I pulled the trigger... finally. I ordered a Rock River Arms A4. It was between the RRA and an S&W M&P which was $200 more. I found out that both have sourced their parts from the same place. The RRA was a solid looking rifle that appeared very well built. I got a pre-order price of $1240 vs $1499 when they arrive.

I've decided on a 12" rail. I'm leaning towards Troy... basically because I can get one where LaRue and Daniel Defense are largely unavailable. What rail are you running? I definately want the flush mount to the upper look where the top of the rail butts up against the upper rail and the ring is covered... basically the way yours looks. I'm going to replace the standard site/gas block with a low profile gas block so that it does not interfere with the extended length rail and I'll use rail mounted flip up sites.

I'd like to know what rails you're using because I definately like that flush mount setup.

Here is a closeup of my spike's lower:

 

[Cpt.America]

I'd like to know what rails you're using because I definately like that flush mount setup.

Awesome.. congrats! RRA makes a great mid tier rifle... They shoot great, and from what I understand, and very dependable. Double check the stakes on your BCG to make sure they are staked properly... and you should be fine. Examples of a properly staked and improperly staked BCG can be googled or found on ar15.com

I am using the Troy Industries 10" free-floating rail.

 

[Nemo128]

Cpt, what do you think of Benelli tacticals?

 

[Matt34]

I may be picking up another XD .45 tactical next week. One of my friends is selling his and I'm still kicking myself in the butt for getting rid of mine. It's the black over tan one.

 

[itschris]

Awesome.. congrats! RRA makes a great mid tier rifle... They shoot great, and from what I understand, and very dependable. Double check the stakes on your BCG to make sure they are staked properly... and you should be fine. Examples of a properly staked and improperly staked BCG can be googled or found on ar15.com

I am using the Troy Industries 10" free-floating rail.

I've literally spent hours and hours on the ar15.com. I won't get my rifle for about 3 weeks so I"m deciding on some of the upgrades. I orded the flattop without the carry handle. I'm still trying to decide on either the 10" or 12" rail. Speaking purely appearance-wise and cool-factor-wise, I'm having a hard time deciding as either will give me the practical usage I want and need. I like the look of a 10 inch rail with a cool looking gas block with integrated front sight. At the same time however, I think the 12" rail just looks very clean and gives me that extra inch I need for my natural grip span since I have really really broad shoulders. I'm leaning to either Troy or Daniel Defense Rails. Both are fine choices and both have the look I'm after.

I'm not gonna worry too much about optics at this point. I want to get the gun itself setup exactly the way I want it and that will take some time to figure out. The rifle comes with a decent adjustable stock, but I'm sure I'll swap it out for a Vltor or Command Arms stock. It's just that sorda stuff I want to work out.

But regarding optics... I got to personally handle several different setups at my local shop. I found the one I like the best that gave the most flexibilty was the Aimpoint 3x magnifyer co-witnessed into the Aimpoint comp m3 red dot with the magnifyer on a cantilever mount that rotates it off to the side. That setup will likely change, but it's what I like a the moment.

 

[Cpt.America]

I've literally spent hours and hours on the ar15.com. I won't get my rifle for about 3 weeks so I"m deciding on some of the upgrades.

3 weeks is nothing... thats a great turn around time. When i built my sabre in April, I think the wait time for most pre-builts, from places like RRA, was more like 3 months.

I orded the flattop without the carry handle.

Good. You can always buy a carry handle later, if you wanted. No need to buy it now if you dont need it.

I'm still trying to decide on either the 10" or 12" rail. Speaking purely appearance-wise and cool-factor-wise, I'm having a hard time deciding as either will give me the practical usage I want and need. I like the look of a 10 inch rail with a cool looking gas block with integrated front sight. At the same time however, I think the 12" rail just looks very clean and gives me that extra inch I need for my natural grip span since I have really really broad shoulders. I'm leaning to either Troy or Daniel Defense Rails. Both are fine choices and both have the look I'm after.

I wouldnt' purchase your rail (longer or shorter) based on how broad your shoulders are. I am also a fairly decent sized guy (6' 200 lbs), but what makes the biggest difference is how long your arms are. I have really long arms, and I still find the most comfortable forarm position to be well behind the end of my 10" rail.... somewhere around 6 or 7" (not sure exactly). What the longer rail will give you, is obviously more room to mount on the picitiny, but will also give you a longer sight radius if you take the route that I went, which is a removable sight.

Also don't forget, that the longer your rail, the heavier your weapon too. Every ounce adds up, including 2 inches on the rail. honestly, I don't think you will use that last 2" on the 12" rail, but only you would know for sure. I myself chose the 10" simply because it was kind of "in the middle" of all the sizes, and since I coudln't spend any time with the rifle before I built it... it seemed like the safe way to go, and it works perfect for me. YMMV.

Troy, Daniel, take your pick. Both are fantastic. I think the Troy's are easier to mount, unmount (i forget why though...), and are a bit more affordable. However, quality is not sacrificed. My Free Floating Troy rail system is built like a tank, very well finished, A+

I'm not gonna worry too much about optics at this point. I want to get the gun itself setup exactly the way I want it and that will take some time to figure out. The rifle comes with a decent adjustable stock, but I'm sure I'll swap it out for a Vltor or Command Arms stock. It's just that sorda stuff I want to work out.

But regarding optics... I got to personally handle several different setups at my local shop. I found the one I like the best that gave the most flexibilty was the Aimpoint 3x magnifyer co-witnessed into the Aimpoint comp m3 red dot with the magnifyer on a cantilever mount that rotates it off to the side. That setup will likely change, but it's what I like a the moment.

Optics is the one thing I am completely ignorant to. I went with front and rear BUIS, which will work fine for most things until I have the time and money to research some nice optics. RIght now I can't even afford ammo, let alone an aimpoint

 

[Tomorrow]

2. I would stay away from any AR chambered in .223. Definily get an upper chambered in 5.56. Even though you will probably be purchasing .223 for it most of the time (its the cheapest), you want a rifle to be able to shoot 5.56 for all the reasons you cannot think of.

Hmmm. I'd have sworn that there is zero difference between 5.56 and .223.

 

[Cpt.America]

Hmmm. I'd have sworn that there is zero difference between 5.56 and .223.

Same bullet, different cartridge. A rifle chambered in 5.56 can fire both. A rifle chambered in .223 can only shoot .223. And considering military surplus is all 5.56, its the ONLY way to go.

 

[jliedeka]

IIRC, with .308 and 7.62mm it's the other way around. A .308 can safely fire 7.62x51 but you wouldn't want to load .308 in a 7.62.

Jim

 

[itschris]

[/QUOTE]
Optics is the one thing I am completely ignorant to. I went with front and rear BUIS, which will work fine for most things until I have the time and money to research some nice optics. RIght now I can't even afford ammo, let alone an aimpoint [/QUOTE]

I was rather ignorant myself until about a week or so ago when I finally just the hell with it and decided to submerse myself in this stuff. The downside to optics is that they're stupid expensive for the top shelf stuff like Aimpoint and Eotech. NcStar however is a low cost alternative if you don't mind giving up some quality and name recognition.

The setup I'm thinking about is the AimPoint red dot sight which has zero magnification. It just allows better and easier target acquisition without having to line up multiple sight planes with iron sights. I used them extensiviely on my competition 1911's and I can tell you with no hesitation that they change everything. You begin spending your time working on the fundamentals and fine tuning as opposed to the effort of sighting targets.

One common thing to do with red dots is to place a magnifyer in front of it so that you look through the magnifyer then into your red dot sight. I've spent a lot of time trying to decide between that co-witness setup vs an ACOG style sight from Trijicon, but I just think I'll have more flexibility with the first setup... especially with a cantilever mount that can swivel the site off to the right side of the rail and leave an unmagnified picture throught just the red dot sight.

You have the the 16" barrel correct? The 10" rail doesn't reach beyond your gas block does it? I see both 9" and 10" rails and I can't figure out what the stock size forearm is. The only reason why I'm thinking a 12 inch rail was because I do have long arms and wide shoulders. I'm a 37 sleeve and when I naturally shoulder the rifle it seems my hand naturally wants to be right about where the gas block is. I'll likely remove the stock gas block and replace it with a low profile one and have the 12" rail just extend beyond it and then but Troy rail mount flip ups in the front and back. I think that's a cool look too, but at the same time, I like the 10" rail with a gas block that incorporates the flip up sight like YHM makes. It's kind of a cool look. I'll have decide on that though. If I go with the 12" rail, I'll likely go with Daniel Defense since it actually weighs less than most 10" rails. But if I do go with the 10", it'll be Troy. The do make solid stuff and it looks fantastic.

I was really lucky on getting the weapon. The one shop at my house ordered them a couple months ago and they had confirmed delivery a couple of days prior to me walking in so they're pretty confident that they'll have them in a 3 weeks or so. For now, it's just a waiting game.