EMP E41-B for $209

[KEW]

They use a 4" midrange and as far as I know don't have any baffle step compensation. In a smaller room, near walls or other boundaries where they can boost in the lower midrange, they sound great. I haven't tried them elsewhere, but I suspect they may sound thin in a larger room, further away from boundaries. Beyond that there's only so far you can push the 4" mid, even with a 100hz crossover.

So whether they're right for your application depends on what you're expecting.

I really hope you'll try them in a larger room - I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I'm sure you are right, but I wasn't looking for that specific attribute and "it didn't reach out and grab me" at the levels I have pushed it to. I have not A/B'ed these speakers in the LR, only in the smaller bedroom.

 

[GranteedEV]

I'm sure you are right, but I wasn't looking for that specific attribute and "it didn't reach out and grab me" at the levels I have pushed it to.

I'm a bit surprised. Based on Gene's measurements of general forward radiated energy on a stand vs a desk:

I would think the difference in frequency response below 1khz would reach out and grab you. Again it would depend on how they're interacting with your bigger room.

 

[gene]

I really hope you'll try them in a larger room - I'd love to hear your thoughts.
I'm sure you are right, but I wasn't looking for that specific attribute and "it didn't reach out and grab me" at the levels I have pushed it to. I have not A/B'ed these speakers in the LR, only in the smaller bedroom.

These speakers are not well suited for large rooms. They really should be used as nearfield monitors.

 

[KEW]

Hmm.
Searching for possible explanations:
1) In the LR I had these on a "sofa table" (taller than and behind the sofa). They were even with the leading edge of the table: however, the table top would certainly act as a sound board. They were about 4' from the wall behind them and about 5' from the side walls. I'm guessing the table top made the difference?
2) I had them mated to a sub using an Emotiva USP-1 for bass management and SVS SB12 Plus. I had the crossover on the back of the USP-1 at 120Hz. I don't remember what I did on the back of the sub, but I probably turned off the cross over or set it to the highest frequency so the usp and sub would not compound one another. I would think this would all be below the suspect frequencies.

 

[KEW]

These speakers are not well suited for large rooms. They really should be used as nearfield monitors.

Well, there you have it!
I wasn't surprised you found their limits in a treated 6000 cu ft room, but I'm a bit surprised to hear you say they really should be used as nearfield monitors! I didn't get that from the review.
All I can say is I've been pretty happy with them in my ~2800 Cu ft room with a sub.
I'm a big fan of these speakers and they work for me, but the last thing I want is to lead people astray.
Thanks for your clarification.

 

[fuzz092888]

Hello there Terrible camera phone picture, but since I don't own a camera it will have to do.

 

[afterlife2]

Hello there Terrible camera phone picture, but since I don't own a camera it will have to do.

Ugh you had to post more pics. Thanks KEW you are a gentleman. I got 2 weeks to decide.

 

[fuzz092888]

Ugh you had to post more pics. Thanks KEW you are a gentleman. I got 2 weeks to decide.

Forget pics, you need to HEAR these things are awesome

Can't wait for my T amp to get here so my feet have somewhere to go (currently an outlaw 755 has invaded my footspace since it's the only amp I had lying around).

 

[afterlife2]

Forget pics, you need to HEAR these things are awesome

Well I'll be damned, lol

 

[gene]

Well, there you have it!
I wasn't surprised you found their limits in a treated 6000 cu ft room, but I'm a bit surprised to hear you say they really should be used as nearfield monitors! I didn't get that from the review.
All I can say is I've been pretty happy with them in my ~2800 Cu ft room with a sub.
I'm a big fan of these speakers and they work for me, but the last thing I want is to lead people astray.
Thanks for your clarification.

Sounds like you implemented them well. In a large room, I'd want to employ 2 subs placed in close proximity and crossed over to the 41s at 100Hz. That kind of setup, running stereo subs, would be pretty awesome for sure. I love them as nearfield monitors b/c they are so detailed and clean. Mated with a sub in such a situation is just icing on the cake. I ordered the Scan Speaker tweeters found in RBH Signature SE/R speakers from RBH after the review. No crossover change was needed and man do these babies sing

 

[fuzz092888]

Which tweeters are those?

 

[Warmonger]

I wouldn't try it. If you've listened to your new speakers, you know what bass they produce is significant and defined.
Go to the site I linked below and look at the slide show to see the back panel, Then read the last paragraph of the review.
Aside from the volume and on/off button on top, I don't think there is a crossover or any other normal controls on this sub and I'd be worried the fixed roll-off that mates well with the Yamaha sound bar would overlap the E41-B woofers. Also, since this sub is specifically designed for HT (more emphasis on low extension), I doubt it is ideal for music.

Gene's solution is likely the highest quality solution in a compact sub. I think he has the mini-8 which runs around $700.
I would offer the Mirage MM-8 for $250 as a value option.

KEW, thanks for the advice. I decided to go with Gene's solution and ordered the Velodyne MiniVee-8. My next purchase will be a tube amplifier to replace my 35 year old Sony TA3200F amp.

Gene gave us a marvelous review of the EMP VT-40.2 & 41-SE/B combination but Brian at EMP told me they will not be restocking the VT40.2 tube amplifier and they are looking at replacing it with a new and improved model. He didn't know when that would happen.

With the purchase of the Mini-8, I've got to replenish my "Mad Money" funds so I have time to research and learn more about tube amps.

KEW/Gene, thanks again!

 

[KEW]

No crossover change was needed and man do these babies sing

Yes! Tell us more about this upgrade!
How much does it cost?
What inspired you to do this?

 

[KEW]

KEW, thanks for the advice. I decided to go with Gene's solution and ordered the Velodyne MiniVee-8. My next purchase will be a tube amplifier to replace my 35 year old Sony TA3200F amp.

Gene gave us a marvelous review of the EMP VT-40.2 & 41-SE/B combination but Brian at EMP told me they will not be restocking the VT40.2 tube amplifier and they are looking at replacing it with a new and improved model. He didn't know when that would happen.

With the purchase of the Mini-8, I've got to replenish my "Mad Money" funds so I have time to research and learn more about tube amps.

KEW/Gene, thanks again!

Nice!
Since you started out looking at the inexpensive Yamaha, I wasn't sure you would be able to stomach the Velodyne! You can't go wrong mirroring Gene's setup - he sees and hears so much nice gear and his ear is unquestionably very well trained.

 

[KEW]

Gene gave us a marvelous review of the EMP VT-40.2 & 41-SE/B combination,,,

... and learn more about tube amps.

When I bought the first pair, it was only available with the VT-40.2. I sold mine here on Audioholics.
I'm a little OCD, and couldn't stand the idea that the SQ was steadily declining as the tubes wear out and there is no definitive point at which to replace them. The perfectionist in me and 'me Scots blood' were at war! lol.
Obviously it isn't a big deal for most people!

 

[gene]

Yes! Tell us more about this upgrade!
How much does it cost?
What inspired you to do this?

IT's the Scan Speak 9500 which until I heard the new Beryllium tweeter they make, was my favorite tweeter of all time. It's not a cheap upgrade and will cost you as much as you paid for the 41s. I did it b/c most of my reference speakers employ this tweet and I really love the openness of the sound. You can call RBH and ask about the upgrade, but it's not a huge night/day difference on that speaker considering the added cost.

 

[gene]

When I bought the first pair, it was only available with the VT-40.2. I sold mine here on Audioholics.
I'm a little OCD, and couldn't stand the idea that the SQ was steadily declining as the tubes wear out and there is no definitive point at which to replace them. The perfectionist in me and 'me Scots blood' were at war! lol.
Obviously it isn't a big deal for most people!

The tubes are on the preamp side not the power amp. I'd imagine you could still get replacements from EMP for them though I'm curious about the new amp they will be releasing. In anything other than a small office, the VT-40.2 simply doesn't cut the mustard.

 

[KEW]

The tubes are on the preamp side not the power amp. I'd imagine you could still get replacements from EMP for them though I'm curious about the new amp they will be releasing. In anything other than a small office, the VT-40.2 simply doesn't cut the mustard.

So, I guess the pre-amp tubes have a substantial life compared to amp tubes. Makes sense. Lesson learned!

I remember my father habitually carrying tubes to the drug store for testing/replacement. To think, almost every drugstore had a tester and sold tubes.
Now, you'd be sunk without the internet!

 

[Warmonger]

Nice!
Since you started out looking at the inexpensive Yamaha, I wasn't sure you would be able to stomach the Velodyne! You can't go wrong mirroring Gene's setup - he sees and hears so much nice gear and his ear is unquestionably very well trained.

KEW
As a starting point, I tend to match, cost wise, component to component since performance to cost ratio tend to be similar. Since the 41- cost me $209, I pretty much decided to start looking at a sub in a comparable price range. Matching a $209 bookshelf to a $700+ sub isn't something I would do unless there is a compelling reason. Gene's upgrade of the tweeter makes the speaker match to the MiniVee a little more logical. My hearing in my right ear roles off significantly in the hi freq. range so I tend to be a little more critical of the benefits I get by spending additional $$$ to achieve hi freq response.

This little system I'm putting together is for my small office and is more personal. It's not for entertaining anyone other than myself. It will be a mixture of ole school components with some modern technology. I pulled 300+ vinyl albums out of storage along with my old Thorens/SME turntable and so, just like me, the components and the music will be vintage.

 

[GranteedEV]

As a starting point, I tend to match, cost wise, component to component since performance to cost ratio tend to be similar. Since the 41- cost me $209, I pretty much decided to start looking at a sub in a comparable price range. Matching a $209 bookshelf to a $700+ sub isn't something I would do unless there is a compelling reason.

A good reason is that this speaker is not a $200 bookshelf. It's a $1000 MSRP bookshelf, and could easily sell for two-times that, still in my opinion . That's not just lip service. The EMP E5Bi is an ACTUAL $200 bookshelf (actually, it's $250/pr). The E41-B is probably twice as resolving with a more liquid midrange and much more HF definition and "snap" - and given the logarithmic law of diminishing returns, EMP is probably crazy selling these things at $500/pr. The only reason they can get away with this is probably because they make more volume on these when selling the aluminum ones to dealers. So what you're paying for the I.D. ones is probably dealer-cost.

While I don't know what percent of the cone makeup is beryllium, the fact that they attempt to use the material at all is astounding. The midrange resolution you get from these speakers in the nearfield may just be as good as any other setup.

You'd in my opinion be reducing the fidelity of your system with a cheap sub like that rather than increase it. These speakers want a very good sub.. or three. Else don't bother with a sub at all. I don't think the speakers sound poor at all without a sub.

Now if you can get a true $1000 sub for $200, that's totally different.

For my E41-Bs, if I get around to it, I want to pick up one of these:

http://www.amazon.com/SWR-823D-Alpine-Type-R-2-Ohm-Subwoofer/dp/B0056VZ6YI

They have a very nice BL curve and extremely low inductance, and decent extension too. My guess is this driver can run with $300 scanspeak etc units even as a woofer.

Gene's upgrade of the tweeter makes the speaker match to the MiniVee a little more logical.

The actual tweeter on the E41s is still excellent. KEW for example said it is one of the best soft domes he's heard and - unlike most soft tweeters.