Dream Speakers Under $6,000 Retail

GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
That is NOT all true.. we are far from Tone Deaf, and would love to put our Klipsch's up against your EMP's. :)

If we were so tone deaf, why do you think we want to Upgrade Away from a Klipsch Speaker? Maybe a Paradigm or a PSB or a Tannoy or a KEF or a REVEL is the Answer... but one thing for sure, your "Tone Deaf" statement is Erroneous and needs to be corrected, unless you think your the only one with Two Ears. :D
twas a joke.. relaxxxxxxxxxxx
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
So at a "LIVE" concert you are hearing music through horns, correct?

Same with clubs.
Yes, live amplified concerts. Live unamplified would refer to no speakers... just instruments.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
What music do you guys prefer?

I enjoy Rock and Dance/Techno myself. I love going to Rock Concerts and I love going to a nice club.

Both places use what type of speaker mainly?
Ah, RippyMan -- don't you just LOVE those Klipsch RF-7II's - a kick it up speaker for sure Man, Lovely, and it is pretty darn tough to beat up on a Klipsch RF-7II at around $1K per Box, unless someone has a better idea for $2K per Pair? :)

Honestly, I will never put down a Klipsch -- they have and are still making some fine speakers, for what they can do - you and I know it, but many have never heard a Klipsch, so can not make a direct comparison.
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I personally have two TC2K's and think they sound great. I also love the Mal-X but my friend blew up three or four, so he switched to 5400 and never looked back. Is there Mal-x 18 still available?

DPS,

We get it - you love Klipsch and want those Kef's. You're also a raging Lib and hate Republicans. Enough already :)
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
twas a joke.. relaxxxxxxxxxxx
Kick it BACK boy... you sound like a Republican for the 1% again that got us into this Wacky Mess - not Canada though, I think I will move all my cents to Canada as they pay more than 0.01% Interest! :) We need the KeyStone Pipeline, get them to pass it in Canada Grant.

No Joke, just be very Accurate like your speakers those fine EMP's... :D
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
JTR's might be fine, but I would like to have some Measured Data/Plots first, and start there, instead of buying/listening and not liking anything then having to send them right back -- as that is hard on the back and pocket book as well.
Lift with your legs. ;)

Den Pure Sound is a child's mouth the same radiator as a cymbal?
Amazing what one can do with editing. :p
 
N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
Kick it BACK boy... you sound like a Republican for the 1% again that got us into this Wacky Mess - not Canada though, I think I will move all my cents to Canada as they pay more than 0.01% Interest! :)

No Joke, just be very Accurate like your speakers those fine EMP's... :D
Now you're just getting annoying...
 
GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
i fixed it for ya.

The emps are fun speakers but i don't think it's fair to compare them to anything over 1K except in looks where id put them against anything. The rbh sx-8300/R would be more in line with this thread.
 
D

DS-21

Full Audioholic
All the TC drivers are amazing and top of the line.
No, they're not.

Some of them are excellent, but some of them are simply awful. It was in fact a horrible-sounding TC woofer (the Stryke Audio HE15) that led me down the path of concluding that low normalized inductance is a necessity for high-fidelity bass.

Not to mention the company's checkered history of insolvency (at times leaving venders such as John Janowitz holding the bag for defective parts, and taking money from venders such as Soundsplinter without supplying product - they've been through that cycle at least twice now), endemic problems with build quality (people having to re-machine bolt holes in LMS-Ultras lately, for instance), puzzling shipping decisions (e.g. leaving bags of washers improperly secured in VMP passive radiator boxes, thereby allowing them to move around and dent the cone), etc.

How do you handle the bottom frequencies having fewer producing sources?
Not sure what you mean. In the closed box system they all sum in phase below the modal region, so all contribute. The overall levels are different as well. I can't tell you which sub overloads first because I've never had any part of the bass system overload in the course of my listening.

In the system for which I showed measurements (all three subs had PR subs, which mean that they go dipole below their cutoff) I simply applied EQ to cut the bump of energy above the 40Hz range where the KEF HTB2's cut off.

TLS Guy and Gene for example think wide dispersion soft dome tweeters sound best. Linkwitz also uses soft domes for their vertical dispersion, they all go to live events as reference.
The Linkwitz approach, with a dome on each side driven out of phase from one another, does constrain directivity to some degree.

Ditto the dipole radiation of the BG Neo3 in John K's very interesting NaO Note design. (The NaO Note strikes me as the current SOTA in dipole speakers, along with AJ's fantastically cool big coax with monopole highs, dipole mids, and cardoid bass. I'd love to hear that speaker.)

Kevin Voecks uses metal domes rather than soft domes.
More salient, I think, is that the better Revel speakers employ shallow waveguides to match the mid and tweeter directivity in the crossover region.

Ds-21 prefers narrow directivity and compression drivers.
Not entirely true.

First, all of the mains speakers I currently own actually use domes. The current Tannoy Dual Concentric models don't really compression-load the tweeter, nor obviously does the KEF Uni-Q.

My views are basically identical to the ones you ascribed to AJ. (Actually, there is little daylight on most things audio between my views and AJ's views.)

Second, as I wrote earlier, my recent experience with the image thrown by wider-pattern (but still consistent pattern over the midrange) has led me to question whether narrower is necessarily better. A consistent pattern in the midrange is, I think, absolutely required for a speaker to be considered high-fidelity.

He has viewed live events from a distance. He also hates rear wave radiation that Dennis and Linkwitz seem to prefer.
That's a bit strong. I do think that the benefit is not worth the placement constraints it imposes.

One speaker that impressed me greatly as a concept was one of AJinFLA's prototypes of the dipole, with his 12" coax and at the time just an 18" woofer, all dipole. It sounded fantastic. I would also never give up enough of my room to make such speakers work.

Is any single HF driver/setup possibly correct for all perspectives and instruments?
I think so, yes. Something that provides a consistent pattern and has declining sound power with increasing frequency will work well with all recordings, and optimally with good recordings.

The width of said pattern and the rate of decline in the sound power with frequency are areas where differences in room construction/finishing, listening distance, and listener preference come into play. Ditto vertical polars. If someone doesn't care what a speaker sounds like when they're standing, a more constricted vertical listening window is fine.
 
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GranteedEV

GranteedEV

Audioholic Ninja
that led me down the path of concluding that low normalized inductance is a necessity for high-fidelity bass.
Normalized, yes, but i'm not so sure about the low part. I think as long as inductance isn't ridiculous, it matters more that shorting rings are employed rather than absolutely low inductance. I think my mal-x gen 2 with around 4mH of indutance is avtually very good higher up in frequency. I run it up to 120hz (large/both) and i've seen no sign of inductance hump or reduced fidelity... The best word to describe it is "dry" I will say that with 18" drivers you're getting very close to frequencies and SPLs where panel resonances might be excited.

Not sure what you mean. In the closed box system they all sum in phase below the modal region, so all contribute. The overall levels are different as well. I can't tell you which sub overloads first because I've never had any part of the bass system overload in the course of my listening.
he was implying that a setup such as yours would be limited in the infrasonics because only the main woofer is really contributing to deep headroom. I'd have to agree. For music your setup is fine, but for movies i think 4 large subs are the best approach.

The Linkwitz approach, with a dome on each side driven out of phase from one another, does constrain directivity to some degree.
Because of the wide baffle, I'm not so sure. I think more relevant in that scenario is that the power response from the rear tweeter is kept consistent. The polars are mostly contolled by the 1.4khz crossover.

Ditto the dipole radiation of the BG Neo3 in John K's very interesting NaO Note design. (The NaO Note strikes me as the current SOTA in dipole speakers, along with AJ's fantastically cool big coax with monopole highs, dipole mids, and cardoid bass. I'd love to hear that speaker.)
I'd love to hear one using the RAAL 140-15D Dipole

More salient, I think, is that the better Revel speakers employ shallow waveguides to match the mid and tweeter directivity in the crossover region.
matching DI is a given.. don't think you can judge a driver based on a poorcrossover and in this way a waveguide is a mechanical part of the crossover.

Second, as I wrote earlier, my recent experience with the image thrown by wider-pattern (but still consistent pattern over the midrange) has led me to question whether narrower is necessarily better. A consistent pattern in the midrange is, I think, absolutely required for a speaker to be considered high-fidelity.
I think a speaker needs wide dispersion out to at least 60 degrees, maybe even 70 from 1khz to 10khz. This is what Sean Olive's research shows. Many 90 degree horns don't really do this... instead having dispersion to 40-45 degrees but narrowing after that.

I think so, yes. Something that provides a consistent pattern and has declining sound power with increasing frequency will work well with all recordings, and optimally with good recordings.
I'm not convinced as far as needing declining sound power. I think "declining sound power" is just a translation for "adequate baffle step compensation" in monopole speakers and "drivers that can handle power in the midband and cross smoothly to other drivers". I feel that flat - but (not omni radiation without the right placement) sound power + flat frequency response CAN in fact work.. it's just not possible with corrent drivers.
 
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lsiberian

lsiberian

Audioholic Overlord
he was implying that a setup such as yours would be limited in the infrasonics because only the main woofer is really contributing to deep headroom. I'd have to agree. For music your setup is fine, but for movies i think 4 large subs are the best approach.
Thanks for clarifying. I am intrigued by his differing approach. I wonder if that is main point of disagreement. I use my speakers primarily for home theater not music listening.
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Then quit while you're ahead, and stick to speakers for goodness sake. ;)
I am waiting on your Finite Recommendation for Dream Speakers for Front Towers -- w/ a real company behind them that is making a ton of money also selling their speakers.

Wonder who that is?

When I want a computer, I will ask "Watson" to help me out. Might be more $$, but it will be a real computer today, and tomorrow w/ serious R/D dollars behind it, and experience states that will be the same for Speakers. ;)

There once was a lot of PC clone mfg's. that are no longer around either, as they got put out of business by the Big Boys. Just a fact in the competitive business world, and the same goes for speakers. Where is Altec Lansing, besides my desktop?
 
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walter duque

walter duque

Audioholic Samurai
I am waiting on your Finite Recommendation for Dream Speakers for Front Towers -- w/ a real company behind them that is making a ton of money also selling their speakers.

Wonder who that is?

When I want a computer, I will ask "Watson" to help me out. Might be more $$, but it will be a real computer today, and tomorrow w/ serious R/D dollars behind it, and experience states that will be the same for Speakers. ;)

There once was a lot of PC clone mfg's. that are no longer around either, as they got put out of business by the Big Boys. Just a fact in the competitive business world, and the same goes for speakers. Where is Altec Lansing, besides my desktop?
I think this http://www.cinepro.com/BFM_9-18-10_BLK.pdf is what we need. That should keep us happy for a year or two. Seems to me your a high sbl freak like me.
 
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N

Nuance AH

Audioholic General
I am waiting on your Finite Recommendation for Dream Speakers for Front Towers -- w/ a real company behind them that is making a ton of money also selling their speakers.

Wonder who that is?

When I want a computer, I will ask "Watson" to help me out. Might be more $$, but it will be a real computer today, and tomorrow w/ serious R/D dollars behind it, and experience states that will be the same for Speakers. ;)

There once was a lot of PC clone mfg's. that are no longer around either, as they got put out of business by the Big Boys. Just a fact in the competitive business world, and the same goes for speakers. Where is Altec Lansing, besides my desktop?
Says the guy who bought Aperions. LOL! You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.:rolleyes:

I already named my top five; go back and read the threads in this forum. But, the best advice you can get is stop trolling the forums and go LISTEN to what's available. Purchasing speakers based on what someone else says isn't wise. Now get to work!

Some suggestions to research and audition in your price range (I'm sure you'll just ignore these like usual):

Acoustic Zen
Vandersteen
Evolution Acoustics
Paradigm Signature (used)
JBL Pro
More Klipsch
Seaton Catalysts
Philharmonic 2's or 3's
Kef (your love affair speaker)
B&W

I don't like some of these speakers, but that doesn't mean you won't. So stop trolling and start listening.

P.S. Revel's Ultima Salon 2's was in my top 5, which is a "big boy" company, but only fools think only the large companies make great products. Your budget is $5K and you've been given some great recommendations. But good luck finding a "dream speaker" from a "Big Boy" within that price range. You're living in a fantasy...a mighty strange and creepy one. :p
 
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DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
I think this http://www.cinepro.com/BFM_9-18-10_BLK.pdf is what we need. That should keep us happy for a year or two. Seems to me your a high sbl freak like me.
Hi Walter, yes at times we do get up there in high SPL's, and like all the neighbors dogs to bark also, [Laughing]...

Not even MSRP Pricing on their web site, just like Tannoy... no prices on their site either.

How much is the MSRP for EVO 2 Front Towers per Pair?
 
DenPureSound

DenPureSound

Senior Audioholic
Says the guy who bought Aperions. LOL! You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.:rolleyes:

I already named my top five; go back and read the threads in this forum. But, the best advice you can get is stop trolling the forums and go LISTEN to what's available. Purchasing speakers based on what someone else says isn't wise. Now get to work!

Some suggestions to research and audition in your price range (I'm sure you'll just ignore these like usual):

Acoustic Zen
Vandersteen
Evolution Acoustics
Paradigm Signature (used)
JBL Pro
More Klipsch
Seaton Catalysts
Philharmonic 2's or 3's
Kef (your love affair speaker)
B&W

I don't like some of these speakers, but that doesn't mean you won't. So stop trolling and start listening.

P.S. Revel's Ultima Salon 2's was in my top 5, which is a "big boy" company, but only fools think only the large companies make great products. Your budget is $5K and you've been given some great recommendations. But good luck finding a "dream speaker" from a "Big Boy" within that price range. You're living in a fantasy...a mighty strange and creepy one. :p
Start listening where? This is the problem for your information -- who has all those in Washington State? If I want to hear some KEF Q900 ok they have them at around $600 per box, but not interested -- I have made a dozen calls and not a soul has any of those you have listed -- in fact due to these trying Economic Times, you will find nothing around in the price range of <$5K or so per Pair.

Unless, you want to hear some EPOS M22I's at $2600, or REGA RS7 for $3K, or Naim Audio Allae $3K, or Focal 836's at $3K, or Revel F32's at $4K, PSB Sync. Ones at $5.5K, B&W 804D at $7K.

So for us forget the PSB's, and B&W's over $5K... no go. Ah, I have it, a nice NEW Pair of Klipsch RF-7II's at $2.2K and even in Cherry Real Wood Veneer, wow what a deal just like the Rippyman and at 101dB Sensitivity they will Rock the Floors/Glass and chase all these darn dogs out of our Yard also... :D And we would have a lot of monies left over for Holiday Cheers to boot and crank it up as well!

Well, how about some NEW KEF R900's at <$5K, around $3.6K that might work also... on the Audition list when the boat comes in from China.

Even, the 8" driver smaller Tannoy DC8T's list out at $2800 EACH, over the ceiling price.
 
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