I havent had a chance to try loads of different cables so but if we already measure all of the parameters that make the wire sound different then we could specify the "perfect" wire in which case a lot of the wires would be very similar in construction.
There are many perfect wires since only the grossly different ones sound different as was pointed out about the 24 ga wire.
If there is no audible differences between 12 ga and 16 ga wire, then both must be perfect, no?
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NO it means they sound the same there could be and are better wires than standard off the shelf 12ga and 16ga wire its just you didnt compare them in your group.
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The differences in RCL and shielding probably do make a difference, I just dont think its the whole story.
You need to read the link further as it has measurements of 12 differeent cables with 12 different RLC. They are all ploted for respons, and in two amp/speaker setups. You will see that all are very close in response even though their RLC numbers are not. We also know from other research what we can detect, what the threshold of detect is. That is not a mystery after 100 years or acoustic research.
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Which is why i was dissapointed in the reasearch because it did not tie the result of the physical measuments with the percived quality of the cable. also when considering the in room response of the total system, ie that what the listener hears, the deviation of frequency response is far greater than the respons difference that these wires produce. You could introduce a equaliser to correct any FREQUENCY error that the wire introduced although from pas experience in torducing more complexity into a system than really necessary ussually make it sound worse.
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I find it quite interesting why the wire should make such a difference.
I would put the horse before the cart, not after it. In another word, we need to establish that wires do sound different. You have not, no one has unless it is grossly different such as 24 ga and 16 or 12ga.
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For my my self i do know that wires do make a difference whether you agree is another matter and up to the individual to decide for them selves. I do not want to preach or say I have the answers I am just telling people of my experiences and thoughts.
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To such an extent that I have heard two CD players made by different companies sound more alike, or less of a difference between them, than an interconnect wire.
So you think a CD player is easier to make to sound the same than wire? I would suggest using a better listeing protocol before you look for causes for differences between wires. No one has demonstrated differences unless broken.
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Err no what i meant was that a cd player is much more complex and has many different components therefore you would expect them to sound different. where as wire has rather less components and hence would expect them to sound more alike.
As a listening protocol i use double blinde listening.
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For jo public it can be difficult to select a cable as the miriad of cables and marketing hype just serve to make the non technical person more confused.
One reason this place thrives, to help the less knowledgeable person
As for the skin effect question I read the quoted article and it confirms what I already thought.
I thought you stated it is not present at audio frequencies? The article indicates otherwise.
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Err no the fact that the effect at audio frequencies is relatively small in comparison to other factors, especially when you consider interconnects not just speaker wire.
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From a technical point of view the artical was very interesting however i was a little dissapointed that no listening tests were done to put more meaning to the artical.
It wasn't about audible differences in wire. It is about measured differences abnd responses.
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Yes but for what reason are we measuring if not to correlate with what we hear.
If there is no audible difference and the wire is electrically suitable then why measure and why bother looking at other wires.
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Yes wire has been measured for a long time but how long since we looked at wire from an audio point of view.
What is so special about audio frequencies?
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Exactly
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Since the audio quality tends to be subjective it is a little difficult to correlate with objective scientific measurement although not impossible.
Actually it is not difficult at all. Harman does it all the time. The NRC in canada does it all the time as does a number of speaker companies do this all the time.
http://www.crc.ca/en/html/aas/home/evaluation/evaluation#recent_tests
http://miragespeakers.com/nrc_story.shtml
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Yes I am aware of this artical but when listening to the quality of sound ie that is better than this it becomes subjective, some people may prefer a slightly different type of sound to others also it is quite easy to tune a system by using different types of wire which have a different characteristic. so when saying that cable a sounds better than b is it just because a suits your system better.
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Just out of interest what system do you have and what wire do you use also what wires have you tried and found bad and what wire have you found to be good or the best.
How is this relevant to the discussions here? I may not even have an audio system, or, I may be deaf. Neither is a requirement to post and discuss issues
We are discussing what you claimed, if I remember correctly.
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Err sorry just curious, trying to be a little curtious. I am actually interested in hifi and like to talk to like minded people, guess you aint one of them then.
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The homeopathic medicin question is a little more difficult as you cant repeat the conditions exactly with an illnes and the million variations the people have, but when changing just the wire you can always go back to the previous condition so you can rule out most of the random influences.
Actually, it is as testable as any medicine tested today, under DBT, placebo controls, on the population. Right? It is done every day. Homeopathic medicines are not exempt from testing, reproduced by others
Another thought is can we measure an amplifier and say it will sound better than another amplifier and be correct 100% of the time???
Well, that assumes that amps sound audibly different, right? You would need evidence to support that claim too. Good luck. Much testing will disappoint your beliefs about amps too, not just wires.
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So you say that all amps sound the same then!!
put another way then have you ever heard the difference from say placing spikes under your amp or changing the shelf your amp sits on say from wood to glass. The audible difference (from personal experience) is large but I have not yet heard of any measured differences,,, have you????
Or may be you do not think that there is a difference (which is ok)
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I like it when you start listening and cant stop listening to the music because it portrays the emotion, when you can almost touch the instuments and singers, close your eyes and you have the band infront of you with real depth.
I can have that experience in a car just as well. Or, listening to my boombox.
Enjoy some music tonight people )
Cheers
Later
MAD 1
Thanks. We'll do that
