Does Home Theater Mag know what they are talking about?

[3db]

I think Parasound commands a lot more respect because they walk the walk.

Their components consitently measure extremely well, and their prices reflect this high level of performance IMO.

Although Bryston components seem overpriced, at least they consistently measure and perform at a very high level.

I think the Anthem high-end separates also measure and perform at a very high level.

But then again, there is also the possibility that HTM just screwed up on the measurements of the Arcam to begin with.

Confused about your Bryston statement considering none of the others you mentioned comes even close to Bryston's warranty. Out of that group, and if I could afford it, I would take Bryston over everything.

 

[GranteedEV]

Too many factors that i don't think HTM measures for. 3rd/4th/5th+ order distortion? Square wave output? Output impedance?

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

Confused about your Bryston statement considering none of the others you mentioned comes even close to Bryston's warranty. Out of that group, and if I could afford it, I would take Bryston over everything.

I was talking about mere performance/measurement. Brystons have great measurements & performance.

 

[3db]

There is certainly more to pre-amps, power amps than specs. I stopped putting my total faith in the Specs, long ago. Its all what my ears tell me, in the end.

Most important is the circuitry design and the quality of components.
Two amps putting out the same flat FR really means nothing, for example.
It just means they both amplify each frequency to the level as the rest. It really does not tell you how it will sound.

Its in the design where it counts. Like a power amp having direct coupling in the output circuit, instead of having caps and inductors in the signal path, which cause distortion.

Personally, I think one can find better than Arcam, for the same or less money.

And the specs of the Arcam and Integra are much worse than my Parasound gear. And neither sound as good, imo.

Did you choose Parasound over the others in a blind test or where they sighted tests. I suspect your test was sighted and your eyes swayed your decision.

Putting out the same flat frequency response means 99.9 percent of the battle and that frequency response is measure at the output of the amp regardless whether its direct coupled or not.

 

[3db]

Too many factors that i don't think HTM measures for. 3rd/4th/5th+ order distortion? Square wave output? Output impedance?

What's with the 3rd/4th/5th+ order distortion? and square wave output?

 

[DD66000]

Did you choose Parasound over the others in a blind test or where they sighted tests. I suspect your test was sighted and your eyes swayed your decision.

Putting out the same flat frequency response means 99.9 percent of the battle and that frequency response is measure at the output of the amp regardless whether its direct coupled or not.

There can be distortion other than a bad FR. And if you think ALL amps or AVRs sound the same, then you're clueless. Some/many amps will sound similar enough as long as their design and components are the same. Change to a better circuit design and use higher quality components and you end up with a better sound.

I've heard setups that completely grated my ears, due to an over agressive HF output. Change the amp to a less agressive style and the HF is still there, but it is not making your ears bleed. And you certainly don't need a blind test to know when your ears about to explode, or when they don't.

 

[GranteedEV]

What's with the 3rd/4th/5th+ order distortion? and square wave output?

It's all about how separated the distortion is from the fundamental. We maybe can't hear 5% THD if it's all 2nd order harmonics... so close to the tone and probably washed out or mixed by the natural harmonics.

But we can potentially hear "0.003% THD" depending on what kind of distortion it is.

So I think raw THD numbers are 100000% useless spec that there's little to gain from measuring.

As for square wave output, I don't really put much stock into it. But a really bad amp like the sony would surely find different ways to distort signals ;P

 

[3db]

There can be distortion other than a bad FR. And if you think ALL amps or AVRs sound the same, then you're clueless. Some/many amps will sound similar enough as long as their design and components are the same. Change to a better circuit design and use higher quality components and you end up with a better sound.

I've heard setups that completely grated my ears, due to an over agressive HF output. Change the amp to a less agressive style and the HF is still there, but it is not making your ears bleed. And you certainly don't need a blind test to know when your ears about to explode, or when they don't.

Let see, you must consider yourself an audiophile. HF frequnecy emphasys means the amplitude favours the higher frequencies rather than the mids and lows.

In your audition, were the amps driving the same speakers in the same room using the same source? Were the rooms acoustically treated? What other variables can you throw at me that are NOT amp related yet you choose to believe thats the amp? I find your lack of looking into other factors that can influence sound as completely clueless.

I agree once you push an amp near its limits or into clipping that its sound can change. But level matched amps driving the same loads in the same room well within their power bands are indistinguishable IHO.

 

[mtrycrafts]

If they paid me I would have Bose banners in my sig and on my car doors.

Would we need a really big magnifier to find it there?

 

[mtrycrafts]

...
Shouldn't a $5K AVR be held to much higher standards, including measurements, than a $400 AVR?

They are on the pedestal of the $$$ rating, better looks perhaps etc.
What more do you want for your $$$?

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... Some/many amps will sound similar enough as long as their design and components are the same. Change to a better circuit design and use higher quality components and you end up with a better sound.

You don't have any credible evidence for this claim, right? But if I am mistaken, please cite them so I can educate myself some more.

I've heard setups that completely grated my ears, due to an over agressive HF output.

Of course speakers and the room have nothing to do with that, right?
Got to be the amp, right? Perhaps the FR would reflect this, no?

Change the amp to a less agressive style and the HF is still there,

So, it is not the amps fault, after all, right??? but it is not making your ears bleed.

And you certainly don't need a blind test to know when your ears about to explode, or when they don't.

Well, you really do as it could be one's imagination, no matter the claim otherwise.

 

[mtrycrafts]

.... But level matched amps driving the same loads in the same room well within their power bands are indistinguishable IHO.

And, that is a good opinion, IMHO

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

They are on the pedestal of the $$$ rating, better looks perhaps etc.
What more do you want for your $$$?

I'm pretty shallow, so great looks come first.

Everything else can wait.

 

[LAB3]

I have lost faith in just about every printed A/V mag out there.
Everyone appear's biased based on whoever buy's the ad space, or pays for a positive review.
Even CE Pro

The best thing about a printed mag, is the pretty speaker pictures.

FYI, just this morning, I saw a Bose ad on Audioholics front page.
This has left me confused.

Reorx

I agree, it's the same with Motorcycle Mags too. Printed Hype for money.

 

[Audioholics]

Bose ads = Google

But honestly, if they'd advertise directly I'd take their money... just for the irony of it.

 

[AcuDefTechGuy]

I don't mind the Advertisements at all.

I would love it if Revel, JBL, Mark Levinson, Lexicon, B&W, KEF, Wilson Audio, Joseph Audio, Linkwitz, Salk, Seaton, JL, Pioneer, Sony, PSB, Paradigm, Krell, Bryston, and the whole high-end world advertise!

I would love to look at all the pretty pictures!!!

The only thing I ask is for the measurements to be done with high standards CONSISTENTLY and HONESTLY.

When a $5K gear measures worse than a $400 AVR, don't tell me it's about the best thing you have ever heard!

Something is fishy there!

Perhaps they need to go back and redo the measurements since everyone could make mistakes. We are only humans.

If they redid the measurements and confirmed the same numbers, then they should also mention that since people might want to know.

If Audioholics measured the Denon AVP-A1HDCI and found that it had a worse crosstalk, SNR, THD, Impedance, etc. than a $400 gear, they would know that something is very WRONG.

 

[jinjuku]

There can be distortion other than a bad FR. And if you think ALL amps or AVRs sound the same, then you're clueless. Some/many amps will sound similar enough as long as their design and components are the same. Change to a better circuit design and use higher quality components and you end up with a better sound.

It's always possible to design something that sounds different and then market that difference. From my recent Adcom to Parasound to Crown the differences really aren't big enough compared to speaker upgrade to worry about it. I see way to many people get wrapped around the electronics, bragging about what AMP costs, what it's output is. Then to find out they have speakers I would put of Craigslist first chance I get.

I've heard setups that completely grated my ears, due to an over agressive HF output. Change the amp to a less agressive style and the HF is still there, but it is not making your ears bleed. And you certainly don't need a blind test to know when your ears about to explode, or when they don't.

Then something is malfunctioning or designed incorrectly. Amps shouldn't have an intentional sound. If an amp has an overly aggressive HF response then that amp is problematic to say the least.