Do You Miss Acoustic Suspension Speakers?

[Swerd]

@Edgar Betancourt – Read the Steve Feinstein article again.

All acoustic suspension enclosures are also sealed enclosures.
But not all sealed enclosures are acoustic suspension designs.

There is more to it than the mere absence of a port.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

They are all variations on the original principle. Closed enclosures with passive radiators can be considered a hybrid of ported and acoustic suspension design since its still a pressure vessel that dampens the excursion of the active cone while using some of that energy to produce lower octaves from the passive cone. Some also include the acoustic suspension into the infinite baffle category since the primary idea behind the "stuffed" sealed box was to eliminate the sound radiating from the cone's rearward travel. BTW there is still one company that makes mostly acoustic reflex speakers, Magico! Although it takes some "magic" to come up with the cash to buy a pair If you look at the design closely, its an AR design built from space age materials.

 

[Irvrobinson]

They are all variations on the original principle. Closed enclosures with passive radiators can be considered a hybrid of ported and acoustic suspension design since its still a pressure vessel that dampens the excursion of the active cone while using some of that energy to produce lower octaves from the passive cone. Some also include the acoustic suspension into the infinite baffle category since the primary idea behind the "stuffed" sealed box was to eliminate the sound radiating from the cone's rearward travel. BTW there is still one company that makes mostly acoustic reflex speakers, Magico! Although it takes some "magic" to come up with the cash to buy a pair If you look at the design closely, its an AR design built from space age materials.

I'm impressed. It takes guts to be resolutely wrong, double-down on your gaff, and use your real name as your forum user name.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

I'm impressed. It takes guts to be resolutely wrong, double-down on your gaff, and use your real name as your forum user name.

Please enlighten us with your wisdom I have included multiple articles for reference. Please feel free to do the same. I use my name since I'm not afraid to own my BS you should try it.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Acoustic - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Research

Loudspeaker enclosure - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Acoustic suspension - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I know they are just wikipedia but they are enough for us non engineers. If you need more info at least they are referenced.
Im just a fool with a magna cum laude in Science and a medical degree that has been collecting audio goodies for 40 years. What would I ever know.

 

[lovinthehd]

Acoustic - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Research

Loudspeaker enclosure - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Acoustic suspension - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

I know they are just wikipedia but they are enough for us non engineers. If you need more info at least they are referenced.
Im just a fool with a magna cum laude in Science and a medical degree that has been collecting audio goodies for 40 years. What would I ever know.

Not much on this subject apparently.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Not much on this subject apparently.

Yep, the earth is flat and gravity is a theory......

 

[Swerd]

They are all variations on the original principle…

BTW there is still one company that makes mostly acoustic reflex speakers, Magico! Although it takes some "magic" to come up with the cash to buy a pair If you look at the design closely, its an AR design built from space age materials.

I agree with Irvrobinson.

Because of your comments, I spent a few minutes looking at Magico's speakers. For most of them, other than the absence of cabinet ports in the photos and diagrams, there is no mention at all of what design principle was used. I saw two possible exceptions:

• The Magico webpage for their S7 speaker does mention the words "acoustic suspension". But there is no other evidence presented to support the idea that this is not a portless, sealed design cabinet.
• The webpage for the Magic A1 speaker mentions the words "sealed enclosure" and not acoustic suspension.

Those were the only two speakers for which I could find any mention of the words, acoustic suspension, sealed cabinet, or compliance (as in low compliance of the woofer surround).

None of these examples support your idea that Magico makes acoustic suspension woofers, as per the design produced by Edgar Villchur.

I usually try to welcome newcomers to Audioholics. We can always use some company. In your case, my reaction is different… you are now eligible for the rarely given Double Facepalm award.

 

[lovinthehd]

Yep, the earth is flat and gravity is a theory......

Odd conclusion but then a lot of audiophiles aren't all that knowledgeable about audio either. I suggest you read more on the subject aside from advertising materials. You're just not getting the difference between an acoustic suspension type speaker (think driver) and a sealed enclosure.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Odd conclusion but then a lot of audiophiles aren't all that knowledgeable about audio either. I suggest you read more on the subject aside from advertising materials. You're just not getting the difference between an acoustic suspension type speaker (think driver) and a sealed enclosure.

Read the accoustic suspension article.....

 

[lovinthehd]

Read the accoustic suspension article.....

You did? And you're still unclear?

 

[NINaudio]

Read the accoustic suspension article.....

We all have. You say you have, but it seems you didn't' comprehend it all that well. The title of the article itself is "Sealed is not Acoustic Suspension in Loudspeakers" FFS

 

[Irvrobinson]

Please enlighten us with your wisdom I have included multiple articles for reference. Please feel free to do the same. I use my name since I'm not afraid to own my BS you should try it.

One can misinterpret and misuse references, and you have. And I guess you'll have to trust me on this, but Irv Robinson is my real name.

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Read the accoustic suspension article.....

There isnt such a thing as an acoustic suspension driver its an enclosure architecture. AR drivers were simple foam suspended paper drivers that pretty much every manufacturer used during that time
The tweeters were silk dome ferrofluid cooled type again used by a myriad manufacturers of that time period. Please explain what an acoustic "suspension driver" is! I owned multiple pairs of ARs 38, 58 and LS9! I even rebuilt some of them! Acoustic suspension AS EXPLAINED IN THE ARTICLE is a sealed enclosure filled sound absorbant material that made entirely to extend low frequency performance! RTFM!

 

[lovinthehd]

There isnt such a thing as an acoustic suspension driver its an enclosure architecture. AR drivers were simple foam suspended paper drivers that pretty much every manufacturer used during that time
The tweeters were silk dome ferrofluid cooled type again used by a myriad manufacturers of that time period. Please explain what an acoustic "suspension driver" is! I owned multiple pairs of ARs 38, 58 and LS9! I even rebuilt some of them! Acoustic suspension AS EXPLAINED IN THE ARTICLE is a sealed enclosure filled sound absorbant material that made entirely to extend low frequency performance! RTFM!

Did you read Feinstein's article?

 

[lovinthehd]

Try this discussion where a couple of speaker designers join in....https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2210218-acoustic-suspension-sealed-speakers-what-happened.html

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Acoustic Research Acoustic Suspension Loudspeakers Product Brochure | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

From the horses mouth!!!
The suspension in acoustic suspension is the air in the box Comprende???

 

[Irvrobinson]

There isnt such a thing as an acoustic suspension driver...

But even someone who isn't a speaker designer like me knows that to have a true acoustic suspension speaker you need a highly compliant woofer, they appear noticeably floppy in my experience, so not just any "foam suspended paper driver" qualifies.

RTFM!

I came close to getting fired over those four letters a long time ago. I developed a new version of a database management product for a major software company in the 1980s. The database client passed back four character status codes to the application to signal the success or failure of the synchronous database function call. For one particularly egregious error I decided to return "RTFM". And wouldn't you know it, but a senior software engineer working for a large customer got that status code in the application he was working on. He called our customer service people and wanted to know what the RTFM status code meant, as it wasn't in the documentation. No one was amused. I didn't get fired, but boy did I get yelled at. I never did that again.

 

[lovinthehd]

Acoustic Research Acoustic Suspension Loudspeakers Product Brochure | HiFi Engine

www.hifiengine.com

From the horses mouth!!!
The suspension in acoustic suspension is the air in the box Comprende???

Just because someone uses a term improperly doesn't define it. Think of all the subwoofers that label a mere low pass filter as a crossover....

 

[Edgar Betancourt]

Just because someone uses a term improperly doesn't define it. Think of all the subwoofers that label a mere low pass filter as a crossover....

Oh please, that's what the entire discussion has been about! Then after being wrong from the beginning and calling me ignorant you want to wiggle out of it! Who's the ignoramus?