Do you know where I can find an AMP like this one?

[Kingnoob]

That's because most streaming devices that are best for music won't be connected to a TV. The ones made for videos will, so they have the interface. The audio streamers like the MUsucCast aren't made for surround sound, so it's natural that they won't have a video output.

BTW- you seem to be looking at the optical in the direction where the Yamaha is sending something to the TV- it's not, the signal is going TO the Yamaha FROM the TV. Smart TVs should be thought of as a source for audio when their apps are being used.

I have used the TV's optical out before. I have heard that if you are streaming a music app with high resolution/high quality audio, the optical cable will limit the bit rate/resolution/quality etc...That's why I am searching for a streamer/player that can output a higher quality audio signal. Higher than what my ROKU or Chromecast can output. I am also assuming that the Nvidia Shield outputs the same quality of audio as the ROKU, Chromecast.
Maybe the optical cable of my existing set-up out is enough. Not sure. Higher bit rate/digital outputs ould be "audio Tom-Foolery."
[/QUOTE]
Are you just using YouTube?? I wouldn’t expect high quality audio. I don’t understand your question. Without picture proof of your system I don’t know what your trying to do.

 

[Trebdp83]

I currently run a ROKU connected Onkyo 7 channel AVR. I stream music services through the ROKU, and listen to 2 channel through the Onkyo. I am looking to add a separate music player/streamer, a separate 2 channel amp, separate set of speakers. Both systems still connected to my smart TV. With the requiste of having the music player/streamer provide a HDMI video out so I can interface with the streamer remote on the smart TV screen. That is my current set-up, that is my target additional set-up.

If you want to use the same TV with both speaker setups, I do have some suggestions based on the information given concerning your current equipment and streaming services after I rattle off a few words about them.

Deezer has a lossless tier that I didn't think sounded very good using my Onkyo's built in app compared to the Amazon Music and Tidal apps. Spotify has yet to offer their lossless tier and AAC 320kbits/s is their current max. SiriusXM streams max out at 384kbits/s. Not sure about YouTube Music other than it is also not lossless. I'm sure there are golden eared folks out there claiming to hear a difference in all of their different highest quality offerings.

A Roku streamer featuring an optical port will be a decade old and should be replaced with a new model or different streamer for various reasons. For a streamer supporting all of the mentioned service apps that can also match sample rate and bit depth as well as support 4K HDR output, check out the Nvidia Shield TV Pro.

If using the Onkyo’s DAC, the Onkyo TX-RZ820 in this system does not support Zone B output but there is a Zone 2 work around for those not faint of heart. With a few specific connections and adjustments to settings, the Onkyo can feed a pre pro directly using the Zone 2 Pre Out set to Fixed Volume or feed a power amp directly with the Zone 2 Pre Out set to Variable Volume and get video to the TV from a connected Nvidia Shield TV Pro connected to HDMI port 1-3. Only PCM 2.0 signals will be output to Zone 2 but no worries there when playing two channel signals from music streaming apps that will be used in this case. With this setup, the Main Zone volume will need to be muted or turned to the minimum setting. Using Zone 2 HDMI Out to TV using a second HDMI cable and powering ON only Zone 2 is also an option after making the required settings changes.

All of this seems like a mess to some for sure but if one external streamer is used to get audio to two audio setups and one TV, there really isn't much else one can do with the given equipment if the second system is going to be an analog setup using the Onkyo's DAC.

If a second streamer, DAC and amp are a must for a completely separate audio system, the Nvidia Shield can output audio via USB to a DAC and also output video via HDMI to the TV. I don’t think sample rate/ bit depth matching is supported this way but no matter really.

Anyway, those are just a few ways to go. Whatever devices and connections are chosen, have fun with it.

 

[JCanada]

If you want to use the same TV with both speaker setups, I do have some suggestions based on the information given concerning your current equipment and streaming services after I rattle off a few words about them.

Deezer has a lossless tier that I didn't think sounded very good using my Onkyo's built in app compared to the Amazon Music and Tidal apps. Spotify has yet to offer their lossless tier and AAC 320kbits/s is their current max. SiriusXM streams max out at 384kbits/s. Not sure about YouTube Music other than it is also not lossless. I'm sure there are golden eared folks out there claiming to hear a difference in all of their different highest quality offerings.

A Roku streamer featuring an optical port will be a decade old and should be replaced with a new model or different streamer for various reasons. For a streamer supporting all of the mentioned service apps that can also match sample rate and bit depth as well as support 4K HDR output, check out the Nvidia Shield TV Pro.

If using the Onkyo’s DAC, the Onkyo TX-RZ820 in this system does not support Zone B output but there is a Zone 2 work around for those not faint of heart. With a few specific connections and adjustments to settings, the Onkyo can feed a pre pro directly using the Zone 2 Pre Out set to Fixed Volume or feed a power amp directly with the Zone 2 Pre Out set to Variable Volume and get video to the TV from a connected Nvidia Shield TV Pro connected to HDMI port 1-3. Only PCM 2.0 signals will be output to Zone 2 but no worries there when playing two channel signals from music streaming apps that will be used in this case. With this setup, the Main Zone volume will need to be muted or turned to the minimum setting. Using Zone 2 HDMI Out to TV using a second HDMI cable and powering ON only Zone 2 is also an option after making the required settings changes.

All of this seems like a mess to some for sure but if one external streamer is used to get audio to two audio setups and one TV, there really isn't much else one can do with the given equipment if the second system is going to be an analog setup using the Onkyo's DAC.

If a second streamer, DAC and amp are a must for a completely separate audio system, the Nvidia Shield can output audio via USB to a DAC and also output video via HDMI to the TV. I don’t think sample rate/ bit depth matching is supported this way but no matter really.

Anyway, those are just a few ways to go. Whatever devices and connections are chosen, have fun with it.

Thank you kindly. This was huge help.

 

[JCanada]

I have used the TV's optical out before. I have heard that if you are streaming a music app with high resolution/high quality audio, the optical cable will limit the bit rate/resolution/quality etc...That's why I am searching for a streamer/player that can output a higher quality audio signal. Higher than what my ROKU or Chromecast can output. I am also assuming that the Nvidia Shield outputs the same quality of audio as the ROKU, Chromecast.
Maybe the optical cable of my existing set-up out is enough. Not sure. Higher bit rate/digital outputs ould be "audio Tom-Foolery."

Are you just using YouTube?? I wouldn’t expect high quality audio. I don’t understand your question. Without picture proof of your system I don’t know what your trying to do.
[/QUOTE]

Picture a Sony TV, Onkyo AVR, 2 Wharfedale stand mount speakers, a Monitor Audio sub, and a few streaming devices ( Chromecast, ROKU). I am building a separate audio system, but keeping the same TV. I will be Adding an additional 2 channel amp, maybe another streamer/player, maybe a power amp, maybe a separate DAC. Definitely an additional set of floor standing speakers.

 

[JCanada]

MeThinks you is full of it.
You state 3 pairs of 5000 dollar speakers (probably Googled 5000 dollar speakers), yet you state your only music source is low-fi streaming services piped through a ROKU of all things.

Makes very little sense...but, little you have said makes any sense.

You might be right. I have been making less and less sense as I get on in years...Engaging with a few of you guys on this stream could be further proof of my mental decline...

 

[JCanada]

Just checking . I use different rooms for my accumulated gear. One system per room is fine.

Ideally yes. I dont have the additional room. I still want the 2nd system though.

 

[JCanada]

Collecting is one thing, but a jumble is another. Plugging a bunch of wires in an out is not a good way of showing and demonstrating older collected equipment.

I have a large collection of interesting older equipment, which visitors can hear at the flick of a few switches buttons and knobs.

Most of it I have had since new, but a few are restorations and I have bought a very few pieces of vintage gear. I guess all of my power amps are now vintage.

Equipment in main AV room. New and old.

Vintage power amps.

AV room turntable case.

It can even play 78 RPM with the correct Eq curves. If you like tubes you have them there. Tube preamp I bought 59 years ago.

I have a large collection of discs, that I started buying 70 years ago. I also have quite a few reel to reel tapes and some Cassettes. I also have rare Dolby B and dbx1 tapes and a some dbx encoded LPs.

The point is that I can play and demonstrate it all without any messing with wires. That is important.

There is also some vintage gear in our family room, the Thorens turntable is a restoration I did.

All but two of the reel to reel recorder are restorations. The Revox A700 and the Brenell MK 6 I have had since new. The Brenell machine is incredibly rare.

So I have nothing against vintage gear or our current offerings.

The last point I would make, is that the old and the new can exist and play in harmony very well. However you need to design it that way. Like all things in life it "has to be right by design."

I am envious sir. That is cool. Very cool.....

 

[JCanada]

Thanks for that information. What about the Monitor Subwoofer? Has it RCA Outputs as well as Inputs?

Yes, Monitor Audio Bronze. 2 RCA left right, and an LFE.

 

[TLS Guy]

I am envious sir. That is cool. Very cool.....

Thank you sir. How ever I showed you those pictures to make a point.

There is nothing wrong with cherishing our past, in fact it is laudable. However new equipment using outdated technology like tubes is a dead end.

There are two ways of celebrating our past. The first is careful preservation of gear we have bought and used over our lifetimes and the other, is to lovingly restore items we have collected from the past. I have done both, mainly the former.

However, I believe if you have it, it needs to be seen and heard. Keeping it away out of sight does not further the cause. These are active devices and not gold coins.

My last point is that there was a boat load of junk around in our past as now. So you need to have a sense of what is worth preserving, showing and using it. For the latter as in all things, system design counts. And so careful planning and execution is a pre-requisite.

 

[JCanada]

Thank you sir. How ever I showed you those pictures to make a point.

There is nothing wrong with cherishing our past, in fact it is laudable. However new equipment using outdated technology like tubes is a dead end.

There are two ways of celebrating our past. The first is careful preservation of gear we have bought and used over our lifetimes and the other, is to lovingly restore items we have collected from the past. I have done both, mainly the former.

However, I believe if you have it, it needs to be seen and heard. Keeping it away out of sight does not further the cause. These are active devices and not gold coins.

My last point is that there was a boat load of junk around in our past as now. So you need to have a sense of what is worth preserving, showing and using it. For the latter as in all things, system design counts. And so careful planning and execution is a pre-requisite.

Thanks again.

 

[JCanada]

MeThinks you is full of it.
You state 3 pairs of 5000 dollar speakers (probably Googled 5000 dollar speakers), yet you state your only music source is low-fi streaming services piped through a ROKU of all things.

Makes very little sense...but, little you have said makes any sense.

So tell me, what is "NON-sensical" about the 3 pairs of speakers I am hoping to get? Tell us what "you thinks."

 

[TLS Guy]

So tell me, what is "NON-sensical" about the 3 pairs of speakers I am hoping to get? Tell us what "you thinks."

islolar8001 is an experienced and valued member. I think he has the same concerns that I do. The question is what is you overall aim and plan? How will you implement it in a neat and usable manner? It is not really a good idea to have more then one set of two channel speakers in the same room. This is for aesthetic and acoustic reasons.

If you really want to add speakers then you need to add channels. So in my AV room have have three fronts, two side surrounds, two rear surrounds and four ceiling speakers. They are all located to Dolby spec. precisely. Good engineering counts for an awful lot in this hobby. A cobbled system is invariably a bad system.

In this picture you can see the three front speakers and the front two ceiling speakers.

In this picture you can see the side surrounds, the back surrounds and the two rear ceiling speakers.

Adding speakers requires a sensible plan to put them to good use.

 

[JCanada]

islolar8001 is an experienced and valued member. I think he has the same concerns that I do. The question is what is you overall aim and plan? How will you implement it in a neat and usable manner? It is not really a good idea to have more then one set of two channel speakers in the same room. This is for aesthetic and acoustic reasons.

If you really want to add speakers then you need to add channels. So in my AV room have have three fronts, two side surrounds, two rear surrounds and four ceiling speakers. They are all located to Dolby spec. precisely. Good engineering counts for an awful lot in this hobby. A cobbled system is invariably a bad system.

In this picture you can see the three front speakers and the front two ceiling speakers.

In this picture you can see the side surrounds, the back surrounds and the two rear ceiling speakers.

Adding speakers requires a sensible plan to put them to good use.

Understood.
I have limited room.(One audio listening room only). I thought adding the 2 channel amp and 2 more speakers to my existing setup would be "better sounding." Maybe it is a bit weird, but I saw a similar setup recently, and It looked cool. Wouldn't an addiotinal separate 2 channel amp and 2 floor standing speakers improve the 2 channel listening experience?

 

[isolar8001]

So tell me, what is "NON-sensical" about the 3 pairs of speakers I am hoping to get? Tell us what "you thinks."

Oh, thats easy. Any new speakers aren't going to help unless the ones you have now are junk. In fact you might end up with worse sound from more revealing speakers.

You want good sound, yet you are using garbage sources....breaking the first law of audio/video (at least my first law)
"no system is better than its source"

If you have the money for 5000 dollar speakers, you have the money for a cd or file player, or at least the better tier of your streaming source.

I've been telling you the same thing that Trebdp83 just told you...only he likes to type and I don't.

As far as having two systems in the same room, I actually don't have any issues with that.
When I was a salesman, we had 20 or so separate systems in the same room.

 

[TLS Guy]

Understood.
I have limited room.(One audio listening room only). I thought adding the 2 channel amp and 2 more speakers to my existing setup would be "better sounding." Maybe it is a bit weird, but I saw a similar setup recently, and It looked cool. Wouldn't an addiotinal separate 2 channel amp and 2 floor standing speakers improve the 2 channel listening experience?

No, it will make it one Hell of lot worse, and that is a certainty. The reason is the phenomenon of comb filtering. This is were the frequencies from the speakers collide out of phase and cause massive frequency response errors. Never ever do that, no exceptions.

As in all things FORM follows FUNCTION and not the other way round. This is pretty much always the rule in any engineering endeavor. The other way of looking at is that if it looks right, it generally is right.

So if you want good two channel, then buy the best two channel speakers you can afford. Choose carefully, there are far more bad speakers than good ones. Top price is by no means a guide, so you have to do your home work. The speakers you choose and your room will determine your SQ. So electronics need to be assessed by the facilities you need and expected reliability. The latter is by far the hardest to assess and always a best educated guess.

Lastly you need good quality front end sources. Garbage in, garbage out will always apply.

I have just given you the golden rules to audio nirvana.

 

[JCanada]

Oh, thats easy. Any new speakers aren't going to help unless the ones you have now are junk. In fact you might end up with worse sound from more revealing speakers.

You want good sound, yet you are using garbage sources....breaking the first law of audio/video (at least my first law)
"no system is better than its source"

If you have the money for 5000 dollar speakers, you have the money for a cd or file player, or at least the better tier of your streaming source.

I've been telling you the same thing that Trebdp83 just told you...only he likes to type and I don't.

As far as having two systems in the same room, I actually don't have any issues with that.

Now we are getting some where. Agreed, my ROKU is a "garbage source." Is there a "NON garbage source" streamer/player out there that has the feature that allows the user to interface with a remote control and a smart TV screen?

 

[JCanada]

No, it will make it one Hell of lot worse, and that is a certainty. The reason is the phenomenon of comb filtering. This is were the frequencies from the speakers collide out of phase and cause massive frequency response errors. Never ever do that, no exceptions.

As in all things FORM follows FUNCTION and not the other way round. This is pretty much always the rule in any engineering endeavor. The other way of looking at is that if it looks right, it generally is right.

So if you want good two channel, then buy the best two channel speakers you can afford. Choose carefully, there are far more bad speakers than good ones. Top price is by no means a guide, so you have to do your home work. The speakers you choose and your room will determine your SQ. So electronics need to be assessed by the facilities you need and expected reliability. The latter is by far the hardest to assess and always a best educated guess.

Lastly you need good quality front end sources. Garbage in, garbage out will always apply.

I have just given you the golden rules to audio nirvana.

"the phenomenon of comb filtering."

I DID NOT know that......

 

[JCanada]

"the phenomenon of comb filtering."

No, it will make it one Hell of lot worse, and that is a certainty. The reason is the phenomenon of comb filtering. This is were the frequencies from the speakers collide out of phase and cause massive frequency response errors. Never ever do that, no exceptions.

As in all things FORM follows FUNCTION and not the other way round. This is pretty much always the rule in any engineering endeavor. The other way of looking at is that if it looks right, it generally is right.

So if you want good two channel, then buy the best two channel speakers you can afford. Choose carefully, there are far more bad speakers than good ones. Top price is by no means a guide, so you have to do your home work. The speakers you choose and your room will determine your SQ. So electronics need to be assessed by the facilities you need and expected reliability. The latter is by far the hardest to assess and always a best educated guess.

Lastly you need good quality front end sources. Garbage in, garbage out will always apply.

I have just given you the golden rules to audio nirvana.

Thanks again.
I am thinking the following. Keep the Onkyo AVR as the 2 channel scourse, add a 2 channel power amp, no additional separate 2 channel amp. Add the Nvidia sheilld, replace the ROKU, replace the Chromecast. Replace the Wharfedale book shelfs with floor standers. Better than the my "lack of knowledge potential dream" setup of an additional separate amp and 2nd set of speakers?


I DID NOT know that......

 

[isolar8001]

Now we are getting some where. Agreed, my ROKU is a "garbage source." Is there a "NON garbage source" streamer/player out there that has the feature that allows the user to interface with a remote control and a smart TV screen?

You missed the point entirely.
Deezer, Spotify and YouTube are your garbage sources....wouldn't matter what you played them on.

You seem to have this idea that better equipment is going to improve those sources...which isn't going to happen.

 

[isolar8001]

Comb filtering is what would happen if you ran two systems together at the same time playing the same thing.
Or two sets of speakers playing at the same time on the same system.
Bad idea and bad result.