DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[jamie2112]

It just keeps getting deeper in here.........Any one have a bulldozer? A shovel just ain't gonna cut it .............

 

[Chu Gai]

If I'm lucky, I'll have more definitive information from the Red Cross in about a week or so. It's a phenomenally large organization with branches in all the states. Hence, you've got to deal with all the names that comprise AV123/Perpetual Technologies (the core partners if you will) along with approximate dates and approximate amounts. I sort of laughed to myself when they asked if I could provide cancelled check information and specific amounts. Then you've got to find someone who has the time, which takes away from other time, to do the searches. Slow as they are, they've not forgotten about the request and appear eager to help. If I understood what I was told correctly, they're very interested in fraud and have some sort of legal counsel that pursues matters in these regards.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Have the proper authorities been made aware of the latest evidence brought forth so they can look into this in more detail?

 

[cschang]

If I understood what I was told correctly, they're very interested in fraud and have some sort of legal counsel that pursues matters in these regards.

In light of what has happened out here with the fires and fraudulent people/organizations trying to use the tragedies/victims to raise money, it is certainly understandable.

 

[Chu Gai]

There's a lot of people looking into this Minus and at least one publically has stated they'll be forwarding information to the authorities. Authorities in this case means a lot of things: FBI, IRS, Colorado State Attorney General. I cannot say what's being done privately.
I know this thread has largely focussed on the raffles. However there are a host of other matters that are relevent including numerous violations of Consumer Protection laws and although this has yet to be touched on, issues pertaining to legalities in employee status and hiring practices may also be matters of concern. And again, all of this does not necessarily fall upon MLS's shoulders.

 

[MinusTheBear]

There's a lot of people looking into this Minus and at least one publically has stated they'll be forwarding information to the authorities. Authorities in this case means a lot of things: FBI, IRS, Colorado State Attorney General. I cannot say what's being done privately.

I remember a post about a person contacting the state attorney general, I wasn't sure if this person mentioned the raffles.

 

[Chu Gai]

They said they were initially unaware of the raffles but seemed to be interested enough. You'd have to find the person and contact them.

Does anyone posting here live close to MLS? If so, drop me a PM.

 

[Chu Gai]

According to the August,'09 Newsletter, The Ballet Nouveau Student Company will be having a garage sale at xxxx, Co on September 25 & 26 from 7am-1pm. This happens to be the Schifter residence. Hope all the money goes where it's supposed to.

[ADMIN] address deleted since its residential

 

[Chu Gai]

Well that may be so but if all we were talking about was bad management I wouldn't be in this thread.

Now, the raffle stuff you turned up is impressive and very damning for MLS and it shows us this crap has been going on since 2004,which pre-dates the Colombia fiasco doesn't it? If that is so, this would certainly change my opinion of MLS...

When I get permission from the person, I'll post the email exchange that was forwarded to me with appropriate stuff redacted. Yes, it assuredly predates the Cali fiasco. As to what the Red Cross will come up, that'll be fascinating. Of all the raffles that were run, I figured the one he'd definitely have forked the money over to would've been the Ballet Nouveau. The Red Cross, well that was a shot in the dark. Although I'm well aware of the funny stuff that goes on during disasters, the Katrina one was particularly broad and devastating in its scope.

Someone had mentioned to me that he thought there was a picture of the check given to the Red Cross by Suzanne Johnson I believe. I've not been able to find a post over at 123 that indicates this. Perhaps the memory was faulty. Perhaps it was deleted. If anyone has anything on this, post it here.

 

[MinusTheBear]

2004-2005 predates any public financial harships faced by AV123 correct? There have been some people sympathetic towards the fact he is the victim of bad luck such as the recent economic recession along with bad business decisions with the Cali factory. The ballet raffle predates any of this, correct? The bigger question now is what has the raffle money been used for over the years, it is reasonable to question this? For the people that have contributed to these raffles it is a reasonable demand since their donations where made under false pretenses.

 

[MinusTheBear]

Apologies for quoting myself. I would really like to be there when MLS tries to explain this to his friends. And with this kind of stuff coming out, that thread over at av123 doesn't seem necessary. Sooner or later, MLS will have to explain himself...

If this was last year, he could crawl through a river of sh$t and come out clean on the other side. Forward to this year, I'm not so sure he can use his charm and charisma to get himself out of this one.

 

[cschang]

If this was last year, he could crawl through a river of sh$t and come out clean on the other side.

For stuff that he did in 2004-2005? I am not so sure.

 

[MinusTheBear]

For stuff that he did in 2004-2005? I am not so sure.

Agree. I was just making note that the perception of the CEO and AV123 has changed dramatically over the past year. If you look at any of past problems that transipired on AVS forum or other audio boards over the many years, the CEO and AV123 always made themselves to be the good guys after the fact. I don't think they can spin this one.

 

[cschang]

Agree. I was just making note that the perception of the CEO and AV123 has changed dramatically over the past year. If you look at any of past problems that transipired on AVS forum or other audio boards over the many years, the CEO and AV123 always made themselves to be the good guys after the fact. I don't think they can spin this one.

Ahh...OK.

But problems within the business are one thing....and spinning that stuff is pretty easy, and easy for supporters to buy into.

These raffles are external, with people that have no interaction, negative or positive, with AV123/MLS, that are coming up with the information.

These are non-profit organizations, and it would be very easy for Schifty to exonerate himself if he indeed donated the money.

 

[gonk]

2004-2005 predates any public financial harships faced by AV123 correct? There have been some people sympathetic towards the fact he is the victim of bad luck such as the recent economic recession along with bad business decisions with the Cali factory. The ballet raffle predates any of this, correct? The bigger question now is what has the raffle money been used for over the years, it is reasonable to question this? For the people that have contributed to these raffles it is a reasonable demand since their donations where made under false pretenses.

I would say that in 2004 and 2005 AV123 was in good financial health, as was Mark. I didn't follow the forum regularly prior to 2005, when I actually got around to registering there, and some time after I registered I remember Mark talking about a new sports car (Porche, I believe) that he was enjoying. That was prior to the decision to pursue the Cali factory and prior to any talk of economic down-turn. Based on all that, I would say that any undelivered raffle money from 2004 or 2005 lacks even the excuse (inappropriate as it was at any time) of "underfunding" due to unrelated financial hardships. Frankly, I never heard a valid excuse for undelivered raffle funds - but even the weak excuses that were offered for Derek and Sloan/Kettering don't work for the ballet raffles.

Apologies for quoting myself. I would really like to be there when MLS tries to explain this to his friends. And with this kind of stuff coming out, that thread over at av123 doesn't seem necessary. Sooner or later, MLS will have to explain himself...

It's starting to look worse and worse for AV123. I don't see a way to explain the raffle situation at this point.

That's not entirely true - let me clarify that. There are possible explanations all over the place. What I don't see are explanations that avoid bringing very damaging shame onto Mark and his company.

 

[cschang]

I personally met Mark in Oct. 2005 at a GTG in Austin, TX. He was planning on purchasing a new Ferrari and invited me to ride with him from California to Colorado when he picked it up in March/April 2006. Not sure if he ever got the Ferrari.

 

[gonk]

Agree. I was just making note that the perception of the CEO and AV123 has changed dramatically over the past year. If you look at any of past problems that transipired on AVS forum or other audio boards over the many years, the CEO and AV123 always made themselves to be the good guys after the fact. I don't think they can spin this one.

Having the affected raffles expand to include these (particularly the very first one in 2004) hurts, as much because it further contradicts Mark's claims of just two affected raffles as because it pushes the onset of problems back before any bad business decisions in Cali or economic turmoil entered the equation. Even without that, though, there was never going to be a way to truly spin the raffles in their favor. There was never a viable justification for the failure to deliver. The best they could hope for was to try to pass it off as an isolated incident - a spin of minimization. That's likely why Mark owned up to his infamous "two underfunded raffles" when the matter first cropped up. (Never mind that the raffle funds should never have been co-mingled with other funds, or that the two was actually more than half a dozen, or that some of those were begun even after previous ones for the same cause had gone undelivered...) Any hopes of such containment appear to be evaporating before our eyes.

 

[Chu Gai]

I would say that in 2004 and 2005 AV123 was in good financial health, as was Mark.

Yes, but that doesn't mean that sales were booming along with a strong, positive cash flow. What I would look at Gonk would be any trips that MLS said he was taking such as overseas, get togethers, etc. and their duration. Marking off the time spans on a calendar might be interesting. You know as well as me, trips cost money.

I didn't follow the forum regularly prior to 2005, when I actually got around to registering there, and some time after I registered I remember Mark talking about a new sports car (Porche, I believe) that he was enjoying.

The cars were leased FWIW.

That was prior to the decision to pursue the Cali factory and prior to any talk of economic down-turn. Based on all that, I would say that any undelivered raffle money from 2004 or 2005 lacks even the excuse (inappropriate as it was at any time) of "underfunding" due to unrelated financial hardships.

And if the financial hardships were a result of living the high life, long, long, business trips with playing around?

Frankly, I never heard a valid excuse for undelivered raffle funds - but even the weak excuses that were offered for Derek and Sloan/Kettering don't work for the ballet raffles.

It's quite damning.

It's starting to look worse and worse for AV123. I don't see a way to explain the raffle situation at this point.

That's not entirely true - let me clarify that. There are possible explanations all over the place. What I don't see are explanations that avoid bringing very damaging shame onto Mark and his company.

Not to mention that he may well be indicting himself.

I personally met Mark in Oct. 2005 at a GTG in Austin, TX. He was planning on purchasing a new Ferrari and invited me to ride with him from California to Colorado when he picked it up.

Must've been tough to figure out if the air was hot because it was Texas or because MLS was out there spinning yarns.

 

[SnowmaNick]

Chu Gai,

I have a question if you don't mind. When you verified the raffle donations (or lack thereof) did you specify the donation under one name (Perpetual Technologies) or did you ask if a donation was given by any of a series of names (MLS, AV123, Perpetual Tech, The Graham Co, Suzanne Johnson, Lynn, etc)?

Based off of your comments regarding the Red Cross and the Katrina raffles it sounds like you did, and you are usually very diligent, but I just wanted to verify for the sake of completeness.

Thank you.

 

[NicolasKL]

It's such a clusterphuck Minus. I agree there's a lot of comingling going on. How he does his taxes is beyond me.

Maybe one of those situations where the head of a company pays himself a salary of $1 and then just has the company pay all his bills.