DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

[jinjuku]

I'm not sure Randy and I'm not trying to speak for Craig. I'm just giving you my take. Frankly though, over at TCA, there's still pressure being exerted by posters on matters like the LS-9 and the HR updates. Me, I'd rather leave issues like Craig this and Craig that out of it because it serves to dilute and deflect matters.

Thanks Chu Gai. I was reading the last few pages and this is an extremely energetic thread without introducing another personality.

I personally have nothing against CC. I would buy him a beer if I bumped into him at a bar.

 

[randyb]

I'm not sure Randy and I'm not trying to speak for Craig. I'm just giving you my take. Frankly though, over at TCA, there's still pressure being exerted by posters on matters like the LS-9 and the HR updates. Me, I'd rather leave issues like Craig this and Craig that out of it because it serves to dilute and deflect matters.

I understand that and agree the focus is better served on Mark and AV123.

 

[Tex-amp]

Isn't his posts then exactly what he says principals shouldn't do?

Craig has a separate set of principles that apply only to Craig.

 

[GirgleMirt]

AH does sell speakers. They do compete with av123. They compete with virtually any and all companies that are mentioned on this web site. Given that, I think we need to get over it. If you think they are not fair in their approach you have options, but clearly they cannot operate their store and this forum with any credibility if they tiptoe around that. They sure seem to not pull punches. I don't recall any ridiculously glowing multi-part reviews about a new product they were selling, unlike what occurred on something like ELTs not too long ago over at av123.

You, and many others, seem to be missing the obvious. AH isn't bashing av123.com products. They aren't saying, buy our stuff instead of buying from theirs because ours is better.

What they're doing, is simply allowing the multiple issues of Schifter and av123.com to see the light of day. Schifter, av123.com forum, avsforum, and many others, have not allowed this to happen. They have censored these issues. And like everybody else, they do have the right to give their own two cents. We're not talking "our products our better than theirs here". Have you noticed that?

The charlatan Schifter admitted, after getting caught, that he has stolen charity money. There's hundreds of people who got the shaft for dealing with him and his company, for defective products, undelivered promises, waiting for refunds for months and months, bouncing checks, waiting for months for a paid for item in a personal transaction with Schifter, and the list goes on and on.

You know, it's insulting to have people always trying to turn this into something it is not. Craig, I hate to say it, is just like Schifter, an hypocrit. He's been doing exactly what he accuses the mods of audioholics of doing, for years. He's commented on his associate's (Schifter) products for years, he's commented on competing products, again, for years, and now he acts like the offended virgin Mary because others comment on av123.com poor business and absolutely unethical behavior? Give me a break.

Except hey, the mods here wear their affiliations openly, where Craig Chase never cared to make his public.

 

[Chu Gai]

I understand that and agree the focus is better served on Mark and AV123.

Different people on different forums are going to handle this in their own ways. Sometimes the people are sympahtico with each other and sometimes not. As you personally know I'm looking into other matters that have not currently been addressed. I have no idea what my success will be. In the meantime, I understand a second batch of amps has been commissioned. It'll be interesting how those and subsequent batches work out. Along those lines, I'd like to see the new MFW's retested. Many have reported more oomph and I can't help but think the original Mark Seaton response tuning that was talked about has been altered.

 

[wesley63]

You know, it's insulting to have people always trying to turn this into something it is not. Craig, I hate to say it, is just like Schifter, an hypocrit. He's been doing exactly what he accuses the mods of audioholics of doing, for years. He's commented on his associate's (Schifter) products for years, he's commented on competing products, again, for years, and now he acts like the offended virgin Mary because others comment on av123.com poor business and absolutely unethical behavior? Give me a break.

This paragraph opens with a circular descriptor. This paragraph tries to insinuate that CC has been doing the same kind of criticism that is occurring now.

It appears to be an understood between all the ID companies that you do not trash your competitors product. MLS praises most competitors products, as does Dave F at Ascend, as does Jon Lane at Audio Insider. They tread carefully when people try to get them to directly compare their products with competitors. They all have a little more to say about B&M products, but not much. Craig Chase's descriptions of AV123 products has kept with this philosophy (even though he has only recently become an ID competitor.) He has said many wonderful things about Swan speakers, SVS, and others over the years. These are not the types of comments that the above paragraph tries to link him to.

BTW, I assume that this "understood" between the ID companies is inspired by lawyers.

I also find it interesting that it has now become an insult to be compared to MLS. With the issues now in the spotlight, he probably deserves this. I guess that any time someone is stretching the truth in the future, they can be reprimanded with "Don't be a Schifter."

Jim

 

[Matt34]

I've never brought this up as I don't have the PM any longer but it was discovered that when MLS was going to send some items to Iraq while I was deployed, that some members (the number is unknown) of AV123 donated to the cause as well but nothing ever did show up. I wrote it off and never said another word about it.

I only found out about other people's donations after a member PM'd me when I had returned home.


http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=31884

 

[majorloser]

"Don't be a Schifter"

LMAO

Sound like a warning you'd tell a child.

 

[Jed M]

I've never brought this up as I don't have the PM any longer but it was discovered that when MLS was going to send some items to Iraq while I was deployed, that some members (the number is unknown) of AV123 donated to the cause as well but nothing ever did show up. I wrote it off and never said another word about it.

I only found out about other people's donations after a member PM'd me when I had returned home.


http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=31884

Wow, I can't believe you are that guy. Same name I know, but as you can tell by my avatars (not here obviously) I really just focused on your dogs. I feel even dumber for arguing with you over on TCA. I never put 2 and 2 together that you are the same Matt in Iraq from AV123.

Although even more surprising is I can't believe that stuff never got to you. This is unbelievable. I posted in that thread. What really disgusts me about that thread is not that he stiffed you, that should be expected by now. What bothers me is that he stole your rightful and well earned admiration. I know you probably wouldn't say anything but that is crap. That thread went from the spotlight being on you, and your service along with the rest of our soldiers and Mark selfishly turned it into another "Mark is such a great guy" type thread. To not even send anything after all that? What a despicable thing to do. This is going to end badly for Mark.

 

[Chu Gai]

Matt, so let me get this straight. Mark contacted you and said he'd hook you up with something (what?). You provided the contact information and where the stuff was supposed to go. You then followed up and found out nothing from Mark was ever received. Is that about right? Did the guys there get anything from anyone?

 

[GirgleMirt]

This paragraph opens with a circular descriptor. This paragraph tries to insinuate that CC has been doing the same kind of criticism that is occurring now.

And what kind of criticism is that? http://www.tweakcityaudio.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38565&postcount=138

Yeah, craig has been steering people to av123.com products and away from other products forever. I'm not saying that he always steered towards av123, but he's often suggested not to go for another product for X any Y reason. And actually, it's even arguable what the criticism here was exactly. What was it?

The worst criticism seems to be: "And how can you trust what they say regarding what's in stock?". And really, is that not true? Just a couple weeks ago, there was posts about people buying items in stock, which mysteriously became out of stock once the order was through, and were supposed to come in a few weeks. So is that criticism, or a fair warning?

Praising competitors goes in the same vein as rubbing people the right way. It's all part of the act, the marketing. Who'd you rather order from, someone who praises his competitors, or someone who trashes them? Besides, you'll notice this goes to an extent, even if they praise a competitor, they're usually plenty fast to advertise their own stuff. And not every ID praises competitors. Hell, those who are reputable basically never comment on competitors. They don't have to, and why would they? Imho, those who do, are simply serving their own self interests as they're simply marketing themselves as honest, friendly, trustworthy, etc. Again, it's all an act. Self-promotion. "Oh that guy is so nice he even speaks highly of competitors!"

I've never brought this up as I don't have the PM any longer but it was discovered that when MLS was going to send some items to Iraq while I was deployed, that some members (the number is unknown) of AV123 donated to the cause as well but nothing ever did show up. I wrote it off and never said another word about it.

I only found out about other people's donations after a member PM'd me when I had returned home.


http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=31884

Wow, I can't believe you are that guy. Same name I know, but as you can tell by my avatars (not here obviously) I really just focused on your dogs. I feel even dumber for arguing with you over on TCA. I never put 2 and 2 together that you are the same Matt in Iraq from AV123.

Although even more surprising is I can't believe that stuff never got to you. This is unbelievable. I posted in that thread. What really disgusts me about that thread is not that he stiffed you, that should be expected by now. What bothers me is that he stole your rightful and well earned admiration. I know you probably wouldn't say anything but that is crap. That thread went from the spotlight being on you, and your service along with the rest of our soldiers and Mark selfishly turned it into another "Mark is such a great guy" type thread. To not even send anything after all that? What a despicable thing to do. This is going to end badly for Mark.

Wow... Things just keep getting better and better...

 

[Soundman]

You see, I don't interpret Craig's statements as that. Based on other things he's writen, I see him as saying that if you've got two outfits, whether they're two car companies or ID direct companies, the principals ought not be directly involved in tearing arseholes into each other. The discussions we're having here are pretty tough ones.

Well, maybe so. But his statements can easily be interpreted that way. I mean, Audioholics doesn't make speakers. They aren't a direct competitor. AV123 clients probably aren't looking at speakers sold on Audioholics. They are more then likely making comparisons to other ID companies. The Audiohlics Store has more in common with Amazon.com or Buy.com then AV123.com. It's a retail store. And sorry to say, but AV123 customers aren't shopping on Amazon, more then likely. Also, Audioholics has done a good job of separating the 2 businesses, the store and the online magazine. These forums are associated with the magazine. And doesn't this thread line up exactly with what the Audioholics mission statement: "Pursuing the Truth in Audio and Video..." By this thread remaining open, the "Truth" has been exposed.

 

[Matt34]

Matt, so let me get this straight. Mark contacted you and said he'd hook you up with something (what?). You provided the contact information and where the stuff was supposed to go. You then followed up and found out nothing from Mark was ever received. Is that about right? Did the guys there get anything from anyone?

I never got a firm answer on exactly what was being sent, I assumed some b/c stock X-series speakers. This started when I had about three months left in country, as far as I know they never received anything. That stuff I really don't care about, I just hope a bunch of people in that thread did not send donations to mls on account of me like the person I was in contact with via PM.

 

[wesley63]

Also, Audioholics has done a good job of separating the 2 businesses, the store and the online magazine.

I agree with this for the most part. One of the better examples of not biasing reviews for an Audioholics store product is with Infinity speakers. These are one the stores biggest sellers, but these speakers have been criticized unfavorably in several shootout articles and comparisons.

Tom Andry's official AH review of the Infinity bookshelfs was somewhat biased. He did go out of his way to come up with an excuse that you might buy them: put up with this poor sound quality speaker until you can make it a surround. It was more funny than anything else. You could tell he was reaching.

Jim

 

[droht]

You, and many others, seem to be missing the obvious. AH isn't bashing av123.com products. They aren't saying, buy our stuff instead of buying from theirs because ours is better.

What they're doing, is simply allowing the multiple issues of Schifter and av123.com to see the light of day. Schifter, av123.com forum, avsforum, and many others, have not allowed this to happen. They have censored these issues. And like everybody else, they do have the right to give their own two cents. We're not talking "our products our better than theirs here". Have you noticed that?

The charlatan Schifter admitted, after getting caught, that he has stolen charity money. There's hundreds of people who got the shaft for dealing with him and his company, for defective products, undelivered promises, waiting for refunds for months and months, bouncing checks, waiting for months for a paid for item in a personal transaction with Schifter, and the list goes on and on.

You know, it's insulting to have people always trying to turn this into something it is not. Craig, I hate to say it, is just like Schifter, an hypocrit. He's been doing exactly what he accuses the mods of audioholics of doing, for years. He's commented on his associate's (Schifter) products for years, he's commented on competing products, again, for years, and now he acts like the offended virgin Mary because others comment on av123.com poor business and absolutely unethical behavior? Give me a break.

Except hey, the mods here wear their affiliations openly, where Craig Chase never cared to make his public.

All I can say to this post is WTF?

I'm not suggesting AH is bashing anyone. I'm saying they do a good job balancing their store and other activities. If someone here is missing the obvious I think you are the prime candidate.

 

[GirgleMirt]

Ah sorry. Thought you were arguing with majorloser, his post just before yours: "Gee, and how many speakers does the Audioholics Store manufacture? The biggest part of the Audioholics Store's buisiness is the electronics and accessories, not the speakers."

AH does sell speakers. They do compete with av123. They compete with virtually any and all companies that are mentioned on this web site. Given that, I think we need to get over it. If you think they are not fair in their approach you have options, but clearly they cannot operate their store and this forum with any credibility if they tiptoe around that. They sure seem to not pull punches. I don't recall any ridiculously glowing multi-part reviews about a new product they were selling, unlike what occurred on something like ELTs not too long ago over at av123.

Thought you were saying, like craig did, that they shouldn't be commenting in the least because they're competitors. "They sure seem to not pull punches" thought it referred to audioholics comments towards av123.com... "clearly they cannot operate their store and this forum with any credibility if they tiptoe around that", here thought you said that they couldn't operate their store and forum with any credibility if they tip toed around 'that', that being the fact that they sell speakers... But I see now that wasn't what you meant... Anyhow, I misunderstood, sorry for the confusion.

I think they do compete, somehow, not directly though, as said, indeed more like Amazon, bestbuy, than ID, but in this case, since they never tried to outsell their products over anybody else's, it really shouldn't stop them from commenting on things like stolen charity money and all other unethical practices of av123.com. This really isn't promoting a product above another, it's really raising some important issues.

What was that bit about the ELTs btw?

 

[Chu Gai]

I never got a firm answer on exactly what was being sent, I assumed some b/c stock X-series speakers. This started when I had about three months left in country, as far as I know they never received anything. That stuff I really don't care about, I just hope a bunch of people in that thread did not send donations to mls on account of me like the person I was in contact with via PM.

I'm going to make the assumption that no one donated and that since MLS didn't commit to anything, it was all spur of the moment fluff. So, while I don't see anything criminal in the thread you gave, it does give insight into the character of the man.

 

[MinusTheBear]

This talk about AH is a competitor of AV123.com is utter nonsense. We are not discussing products here. This threads purpose is to inform consumers on AV123 business practices, quality control, business ethics and also to shed light on some of the shady things with their CEO.

As consumers we must stick together and allow us to dictate the marketplace and not let companies get away with screwing consumers.

 

[Matt34]

I'm going to make the assumption that no one donated and that since MLS didn't commit to anything, it was all spur of the moment fluff. So, while I don't see anything criminal in the thread you gave, it does give insight into the character of the man.

The person that contacted me stated he did in fact send in a donation of his own to MLS. That was his reason for following up with me to see if we did recive anything when he never heard anything more on the situation. And I did receive an email from Mark stating the items were at his office ready to ship out.

 

[Chu Gai]

The person that contacted me stated he did in fact send in a donation of his own to MLS. That was his reason for following up with me to see if we did recive anything when he never heard anything more on the situation. And I did receive an email from Mark stating the items were at his office ready to ship out.

Gee, I wish you hadn't said that It's like no amount is too small to take.