DO NOT BUY anything from AV123

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washburn

washburn

Audioholic
Yep - I had a brain fart!
anyway, only way of getting a used pair of ref-1 would've been through the av666 forum classifieds, and i have been banned for life :D, so...yeah. not much hope in that...
 
M

Mac11700

Junior Audioholic
Yep - I had a brain fart!
anyway, only way of getting a used pair of ref-1 would've been through the av666 forum classifieds, and i have been banned for life :D, so...yeah. not much hope in that...
You could always do a straw purchase thru someone still not banned

Mac
 
washburn

washburn

Audioholic
I know - I have the sound quality already.
Just wanted a bit more quantity when watching blu rays or DVDs. (for music, it's fine the way it is)
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
I know - I have the sound quality already.
Just wanted a bit more quantity when watching blu rays or DVDs. (for music, it's fine the way it is)
Are you still running the Music Hall for movies, too? IIRC, it has pre-outs, so you could still use it in the chain of operation and install a new external amp. A nice, used Parasound HCA-2200 might do the trick! :D ;)
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
A few threads back when I reflected that I sold off all of my VA321 speakers, I didn't mean to imply that it was all to VA321's doing. Truth be told, I'm an audio addict. I rarely come across gear that remains in my possession for more than a few years, tops!

I did feel that something was amiss at VA321 during late 2008 as there were "patterns" that were starting to become quite obvious. First, there were long, written personal reviews of equipment by Mark along with products that were really missing the mark as far as actual time-to-market was concerned. Finally, a bit later in 2009, Mark came out with the release of the "X" series of amps and declared how he sold his mega-buck power amplifier and replaced it with a pair of X-series mono amplifiers. Like anything, or any gear powered and made by VA321, those "X" amps were very late to market ... and, seemed to be buggy as hell. Very noisy amps were reported by some people, while others seemed to get a good product. Another victim of that fabulous VA321 QC process. I also recall recently reading (before Mark's arrest) that he was very soon to release the stereo version of the "X" amp. Ha!

I feel ever-so-thankful to Mark Schifter for all that he has done. Sure, he did at one point provide some good products and tried to provide the best support possible. This allowed for me to get my foot-hold into audio. Also, I want to thank him for his actions that led to a souring taste in me - as it really opened the door to products from many other manufacturers that has provided me with 100 times more joy than any of his products ever made me. Now, these other products are more or less "keepers" for me. I don't feel the need to switch out the items as rapidly as I once did. Now, it's all about enjoying the music with what I have ... and, sitting here on the sidelines with a bowl of popcorn watching VA321 slowly chop away the pillars that support their foundation.
 
washburn

washburn

Audioholic
Are you still running the Music Hall for movies, too? IIRC, it has pre-outs, so you could still use it in the chain of operation and install a new external amp. A nice, used Parasound HCA-2200 might do the trick! :D ;)
yeah still the MH. :) it's a great amp for sure.

it has 1 pair of pre outs, which i am using for the x-sub's line level inputs.
I have thought of adding a Parasound power amp many a time. However, 2200 wouldn't do it; i need a Para model that has RCA ins AND outs (loop outs), so I can use the RCA ins with the MH pre outs, and then use the loop outs for the x-sub. This means it has to be either the HCA1000A or HCA 1500A.
(afaik, the 2200 doesn't have RCA loop out jacks)
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
yeah still the MH. :) it's a great amp for sure.

it has 1 pair of pre outs, which i am using for the x-sub's line level inputs.
I have thought of adding a Parasound power amp many a time. However, 2200 wouldn't do it; i need a Para model that has RCA ins AND outs (loop outs), so I can use the RCA ins with the MH pre outs, and then use the loop outs for the x-sub. This means it has to be either the HCA1000A or HCA 1500A.
(afaik, the 2200 doesn't have RCA loop out jacks)
I don't think the HCA-1000A has the loop outs either. I just purchased one on Saturday and it has single RCA inputs for each of the 2 channels.
 
T2T

T2T

Senior Audioholic
That's probably the HCA 1000. (no "A" at the end)
HCA 1000A does have loop puts. (in fact, that's the only thing that "A" stands for)

here's a pic of the back of a 1000A:
My bad ... I overlooked those 2 extra RCAs hidden down there a bit. Actually the "A" in HCA-1000A implies that it's a slightly more revised model and features 12V triggering. The older, non "A" model doesn't have the 12V trigger option.
 
washburn

washburn

Audioholic
My bad ... I overlooked those 2 extra RCAs hidden down there a bit. Actually the "A" in HCA-1000A implies that it's a slightly more revised model and features 12V triggering. The older, non "A" model doesn't have the 12V trigger option.
we're both right: the A stands for both 12V trigger AND the loop outs.
Here's a pic of a HCA 1000: notice no "A" on the model no on back, no loop outs (same with 750 and 750 A):

 
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D

DOJ

Enthusiast
Agreed. I may not like the direction the company was/ is going- as well as the behavior of MLS, but I'm not going to sell my gear. Deleting my forum posts and choosing to buy elsewhere from now on is how I am showing my disappointment in the company.
Mike , Do you know if it is possible todelete entire history of posts quickly or do you need to do them individually?
 
m-fine

m-fine

Audioholic
Mike , Do you know if it is possible todelete entire history of posts quickly or do you need to do them individually?
You can try politely asking one of the moderators to delete your account. It will take all of your posts with it. I did this when the forum was just re-opening, and someone honored my request. I am not sure they will still do it, but it never hurts to ask.
 
N

neuronbob

Audiophyte
Hey guys, frequent lurker at Audioholics, though I never thought to join until now.

I've read this thread from end to end over the last few months and have been following in silence.

I haven't been banned from av123 but feel that it's pretty much the end of that forum. I am disturbed by the behavior of the mods over there. And anyone who thinks TADG is not MLS is, well, likely to buy a bridge over Lake Erie.

Most of all, I am disturbed that
a) the raffles were not fully funded and that in at least a couple of cases, peoples' actual lives were screwed up by it
b) the great community over there has devolved into fighting here, Tweak City, and in other forums and has led to fractures in the community

Personally, I hope MLS makes things right, but given what I've read here, the likelihood of that is between slim and none.

I'm still keeping my Rockets, though. They are still great speakers and luckily I bought during the time when quality control was good. I'd never buy anything from them now even without the raffle scandal simply because the quality control went to crap.

BTW, note to self: *don't piss off teh Interweb, it can find you*.....that's the lesson I'm taking away from this entire mess.
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
Welcome neuronbob. I recall seeing your name over there. FWIW, the raffles were for all intents and purposes, fully funded, it's just that MLS kept most of the money in some cases and in others kept every penny that people contributed. That is a terrible thing to have done and is inexcusable. Being that these were criminal acts, the justice system will deal with this scoundrel.

However, if you've actually read all of this thread, you'll see that he was wronged many other folks. There are those who prepayed for something or other and will likely not see their monies ever again unless they themselves take legal action or enlist the aid of the Colorado consumer agencies. Same goes for those who got conned into buying store credit or have gift cards. Then you've got companies after companies that Schifter has dealt with that have not been paid. Don't forget the past employees, engineers or contract workers that are also out considerable monies. Don't forget the RSL-II beta testers each out $6,000. Don't forget the 'friends' who were talked into business loans or investments in one or more operations and whose monies never went anywhere but Schifter's pockets. Don't forget the blatant co-mingling of personal matters with the business.

IMO, if you were able to liquidate all assets of MLS and his step-daughter they would be insufficient to meet all the financial obligations which have vanished like a fart in the Colorado wind. I suspect the raffle situation will be made 'right' in time, but everyone else? There's going to be a lot of collateral damage.

The destruction of the community on multiple levels is unfortunate but you can never go home to Kansas again. People are resilient though and will find new communities to become members of and make new friends. Those who want to keep in touch with old timers will find a way if it's important enough.
 
N

neuronbob

Audiophyte
However, if you've actually read all of this thread, you'll see that he was wronged many other folks. There are those who prepayed for something or other and will likely not see their monies ever again unless they themselves take legal action or enlist the aid of the Colorado consumer agencies. Same goes for those who got conned into buying store credit or have gift cards. Then you've got companies after companies that Schifter has dealt with that have not been paid. Don't forget the past employees, engineers or contract workers that are also out considerable monies. Don't forget the RSL-II beta testers each out $6,000. Don't forget the 'friends' who were talked into business loans or investments in one or more operations and whose monies never went anywhere but Schifter's pockets. Don't forget the blatant co-mingling of personal matters with the business.
I indeed read all of that. It certainly makes for very stomach-churning reading. Mostly, though, I am just sick about the intended recipients for the raffles. As far as the RSL-II....I know if I paid $6k with a promise of a finished product in a certain amount of time, and didn't get anything out of it, I'd be scorching mad and raring for a legal fight.

It only goes to show you that when you think you know someone, you really don't. I've stayed out of the fray as I have no "dog in the hunt"--I never contributed to the raffles and when I ordered product, I got it, and if I needed service, I got that too--but the heavy-handed censorship in the av123 forum really upset me, with long-term members being banned left and right. I'm sure I'll get banned for posting over here, too. :(
 
C

Chu Gai

Audioholic Samurai
I'll do you one better, neuronbob. I never bought a raffle ticket nor owned their product.
 
tesseract

tesseract

Audioholic
Hey guys, frequent lurker at Audioholics, though I never thought to join until now.

I've read this thread from end to end over the last few months and have been following in silence.

I haven't been banned from av123 but feel that it's pretty much the end of that forum. I am disturbed by the behavior of the mods over there. And anyone who thinks TADG is not MLS is, well, likely to buy a bridge over Lake Erie.

Most of all, I am disturbed that
a) the raffles were not fully funded and that in at least a couple of cases, peoples' actual lives were screwed up by it
b) the great community over there has devolved into fighting here, Tweak City, and in other forums and has led to fractures in the community

Personally, I hope MLS makes things right, but given what I've read here, the likelihood of that is between slim and none.

I'm still keeping my Rockets, though. They are still great speakers and luckily I bought during the time when quality control was good. I'd never buy anything from them now even without the raffle scandal simply because the quality control went to crap.

BTW, note to self: *don't piss off teh Interweb, it can find you*.....that's the lesson I'm taking away from this entire mess.
Hey, welcome. Your post reflects my feelings as well, and you articulate it better.
 
tesseract

tesseract

Audioholic
I indeed read all of that. It certainly makes for very stomach-churning reading. Mostly, though, I am just sick about the intended recipients for the raffles. As far as the RSL-II....I know if I paid $6k with a promise of a finished product in a certain amount of time, and didn't get anything out of it, I'd be scorching mad and raring for a legal fight.

It only goes to show you that when you think you know someone, you really don't. I've stayed out of the fray as I have no "dog in the hunt"--I never contributed to the raffles and when I ordered product, I got it, and if I needed service, I got that too--but the heavy-handed censorship in the av123 forum really upset me, with long-term members being banned left and right. I'm sure I'll get banned for posting over here, too. :(
Here is what $6k buys you... http://forums.av123.com/showthread.php?t=41129

A rendition. Impressive, no? :rolleyes:

My posting here at AH certainly didn't endear me to av12Guilty, or the people with their lips to MLS's arse. Meh.
 
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